Full LED Turnsignal Conversion Questions

[pokrovsky]

I've had Kisan Signalminder for a while and thoroughly enjoyed it. It worked as it is supposed to (and still does with a little caveat).
First I upgraded all my rear lights to LED for safety/visibility reasons. That includes Radiatz main light LED panel which is awesome and I also installed LED 1156 bulbs into the turn signals (which are thank to Kisan are now turn/brake/driving lights). I kept the front turn/driving lights incandescent first.
Then I decided to finish LED'ing my bike and added front turn/driving lights (I went with EagleLights Gen 2 pods that are changing color LEDs - stay white during normal operation and turn orange when turn signal is activated). It also worked good but the dash indicator idiot light became very dim.
At that point I went one step further and changed all dash bulbs to LEDs as well. Got them from SuperBright LED online store. Neutral (green mini wedge) and Hi beams (blue mini wedge) are super bright but the turn signal (amber mini wedge) is very dim and stays on all the time and only gets marginally brighter when turn signals are activated.
I've been trying to get ahold of Kisan tech support to clarify this issue but it seems quite strange.
No matter whether I put LED in this dash light or stock incandescent mini wedge issue remains as long as the front turn signals are LEDs if I switch back to incandescent 1157 bulbs all seem to be fine with the dash light.
I'm sure someone has experienced this before and I would love to hear the opinions.

[Daniel Meyer]

Standard or tourer, right? Single indicator lamp?

You'll need this:
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/flashers-load-resistors/metric-bike-diode-kit/1190/2805/

Goes in the wiring to the indicator lamp.

Additionally the bulb in the indicator either needs to be incandescent OR a good led one that is not polarized. (doesn't require specific pos/neg).

[pokrovsky]

Thank you Daniel!

Yes, my bike is Standard with single indicator lamp.
The bulb I bought for the indicator is this one. It does not seem to be a polarized type as Ive tried to flip it and it had no effect. https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/miniature-and-subminiature-bulbs/24-led-bulb-1-smd-led-miniature-wedge-retrofit-car/229/1077/#/attributes/16

[MarkT]

Sergei - When I did the fwd LED turns mod I replaced the tungsten indicator bulb with 2 LED's, separating the grounds for each side.  These are actual bright, red LED's not LED fixtures, which both fit in that bezel.  Insulated their leads with small shrink tubing. Pretty sure I didn't have to add resisters as their volts are already limited by the LED turn arrays.  This is just another way to implement the mod Daniel posted.  Now my flash indicator is MUCH brighter than stock, and red in color.  Hard to ignore.  I happen to have a lot of such components in my electrical supplies - I had bought a ton of LED's some time back for building my Highlighter product.  And other projects too, so I have lots of sizes and colors.  If you want I could share a couple with you.  Let me know, email I suppose.

[svsteve]

If your using the signalminder the dash indicator will stay dimly lit all the time if your using the running light option. I have a signalminder and remember reading this when installing it. My yellow is dimly lit all the time. It flashes normally when using the signals.

[pokrovsky]

I like running light option and hence will be trying out the diode mode to get it functioning properly. Worst thing that can happen is I have to reverse/undo the diode if that doesn’t work to my satisfaction

Thanks everybody for great suggestions! This is the best moto community ever

[Jersey]

Just another option: The SignalBoss. It works with any type of bulb as it uses internal solid state switching... doesn't care about resistance, etc.   Also, the SignalBoss can be reconfigured as you ride. No dip switches.

Check it out on JerseyMCProducts.com

Jersey
 

[pokrovsky]

I just installed a diode as recommended earlier in this thread and, regretfully, it does not solve the issue. I’ll leave in in place (as I have really made a nice custom harness to incorporate it) and will continue ir my experiment.
I did talk to Kisan tech support and they said they don’t have any other suggestions.
I suspect this could be a result of me trying to use a switchable white/orange LED bulb up front. My next step would be to try different bulb from my car bulbs collection (perhaps non switchable orange/orange one) and are what happens.
Other option is to try to separate the left and right circuits but I struggle to understand how to fit 2 of these sockets into the rubber boot. Or, I might drill another hole in the headlight housing for an additional indicator light but that’s a crazy talk now
Or I’ll just go and get signal boss instead of Kisan

[MarkT]

My LED indicator install is simple.  It's two LED's in the indicator bezel, each provides a ground for the flasher filiment of the corresponding 1157 LED turn signal bulbs.  Since they are just the small LED's w/o fixtures, they both easily fit in the OEM holder.  And again, have the source-side wires insulated with shrink tube.  IIRC their output sides are joined and run to ground.  They are plenty bright, and red diodes.

My wiring is very much like the bottom diagram below, except the LED's replace the two diodes and the indicator light is gone.  Slightly simpler.

[pokrovsky]

That’s what I’m leaning towards. Just still having a little of trouble to figure out how to stick even the smallest #24 LED bulbs inside the rubber boot and make sure they both still point up. Maybe I can just pour some clear silicone gasket maker once everything is wired/secured in place inside the rubber boot

[MarkT]

This is what I used.  5mm "super-bright" red LED's.  I staggered them in the boot.  One could also use just one but you'd have to have 2 diodes upstream like in the diagram.  Since these are diodes that seemed redundant. 

[pokrovsky]

Another follow up. I think at this point I nearly exhausted all options other than trying a Signal Boss and ditching Kisan’s Signal Minder
I tried the diode kit as previously recommended and I explained that it didn’t work.
Today I did few more experiments: I installed 2 separate LEDs as Mark T suggested (running negative leads of both LEDs to ground and positives to the original harness) and I still have slightly lit indicator (now with 2 bulbs) which gets brighter when the turn signal is activated.
Placing a diode upstream of either of these LEDs has no effect.
I tried 4(!) different types of LED bulbs just to ensure it’s not the issue and now nearly convinced that Kisan is introducing something into the circuit that can’t be overridden
I played with Kisan’s settings (jumpers) and can get the indicator bulbs to get slightly dimmer (but not all the way off) if I disable the running light option (which I really like as it makes the rear turn signals to stay half bright at all time adding more visibility)
My final step will be to temporary remove the Kisan and return stock flasher relay and observe the behavior. It will really suck to sacrifice the features of Signal Minder (not just the auto cancel but rather run/turn/brake for rear lights) but I really want to understand this mystery before ordering Signal Boss

[MarkT]

Sergei - you can wire your own run-brake-turn to the rear using 2 standard 5-pin relays and 4 diodes and 2 resistors using this circuit (I have posted here before).  I installed this circuit on both of my daily riders.  It works well and has relays you can buy at any car parts store - not unobtainium.  You can get the diodes and resistors online at http://radioshack.com if you don't have a local electronics store.  You need to run a cpl wires up to the headlight to tap into the running lights for the front markers.  Other than that the wires are under the seat.  The diodes & resistors aren't needed if you have installed 1157 sockets so the running lights have their own filiment.  I installed the relays under the seat.

BTW my front LED arrays are yellow 1157 bulbs from superbrightleds.com - with separate running / flash circuits per the OEM sockets.  I've installed clear lenses on all my markers for style, though that's not necessary.

http://horseapple.com/Valkyrie/Tech_Tips/VTX_signals/vtx_signals.html



Yep I think you are right about the Kisan messing with your circuit in front.  Sounds like they are using the same circuit for run and signal and that's backfeeding into your marker.  OEM uses 1157 bulbs - separate circuits.  My indicator is very bright - not ignorable.

BTW your pipes are leaving today.  Here they are...

[pokrovsky]

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