Democracy at work in Michigan

[Toovalks]

I'm not a painter... I need supplies to fix leaks and other unsafe situations in buildings. I agree with you about the government not mandating certain behaviors... But each person w/HIV either had or through their actions could visit a death sentence on someone else... in the gvmts inability to control sexual behavior they did prosecute people who knowingly infected others... The problem with covid19 is that your intention to infect may not be there but your ability to do it is much greater . We are not all walking around with the knowledge that our behavior is risky(sex w/ a gay guy or sharing needles). The ignorance comes because the simplest of actions, pumping gas,buying groceries,touching door handles,using an ATM,picking up a can of paint in the store...becomes more risky as more people choose to ignore common sense and the simple things that we are being asked to do.

[Serk]

The point is with HIV there was no government order for HIV infected persons to not do the things (sex?) that result in fluid swap even though doing so is a 100% guarantee of disease transmission. 

(Although I believe California recently either decriminalized this behavior or lowered it to a misdemeanor since this chart was published.)

"At least 35 states have criminal laws that punish HIV-positive people for exposing others to the virus, even if they take precautions such as using a condom. Below is a summary each state’s laws."

https://projects.propublica.org/tables/penalties.html

[f6john]

And yet still more people die from the flu every year without the nation going into convulsions. Key word being die.

[Toovalks]

Yes you may be right...but do you hear of doctors and nurses dying of the flu... what percentage of flu victims clog the intensive care units forcing nurses and docs to work overtime in a flu season... have you ever seen the healthcare system contemplating calling retired workers back in to handle the case log??? have you seen where national guards across the country are needed to set up temporary hospitals, where naval hospital ships are sent to NYC.   it may not kill as many yet, but it matters who its killing and how fast it is spreading...

[f6john]

Yes you may be right...but do you hear of doctors and nurses dying of the flu... what percentage of flu victims clog the intensive care units forcing nurses and docs to work overtime in a flu season... have you ever seen the healthcare system contemplating calling retired workers back in to handle the case log??? have you seen where national guards across the country are needed to set up temporary hospitals, where naval hospital ships are sent to NYC.   it may not kill as many yet, but it matters who its killing and how fast it is spreading...

You make good points. But the Mercy ship is not really being fully utilized, it’s good it’s there but it was another knee jerk reaction by Cuomo as was demanding 40,000 ventilators. Your point is well taken about the speed of infection and it’s viscous effects and it hit some areas hard. Just because there is an emergency in New York shouldn’t mean that people in Podunk USA should shelter in place.

Not sure what you mean by it matters who it is killing. Dead is dead and it affects the families the same way. Im just suggesting common sense needs to be applied.

[Valkorado]

Ours is slated for tomorrow.  

https://kdvr.com/news/coronavirus/protest-planned-against-gov-polis-stay-at-home-order/

I won't go, I'd have to quarantine for seven days upon returning to Gunnison County!

Or worse.   Pretty harsh.

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/04/07/coronavirus-covid19-gunnison-county-fine-jail-time/

[Robert]

The NY ship does not help virus cases and they are NOT allowed on to the ship.

[The emperor has no clothes]

The NY ship does not help virus cases and they are NOT allowed on to the ship.

Originally that was the case. Not so anymore.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnewyork.com/news/national-international/navy-hospital-ship-docked-in-nyc-to-receive-patients-from-philly-area/2377896/%3famp

[f6john]

Correct, and the Javits (spelling) Center is still mostly empty as I understand it. Again I don’t berate Cuomo for his desmands/requests as He couldn’t know how big this thing might get.

I also understand that hospitals are receiving funds based on the number of covid cases and have been instructing cases be coded for the virus even if the diagnosis has not been confirmed. This kind of thing can really skew the numbers.

Again I am proud of the response to the suffering but with the money flowing out like water we better be ramping the economy back up whenever and wherever possible. Trump has put forth a plan now it’s up to the governors or maybe in the end, the citizens.

[Skinhead]

Restricting riding motorcycles, buying paint and garden supplies in large box stores, fishing from motorized boats (but allowing it from non-motorized), not allowing people with a second residence in a non-hot spot to travel to it (where they would be in less danger) is what the protest was about.  The arbitrary restrictions which are a violation of our rights.  If Caitlin had used a little common sense, people would for the most part , happily comply.   

[GiG]

“Caitlin” 
That Woman wants to keep the golf courses closed to keep her beard husband home 

[Bighead]

All this talk about ambulances being blocked I think
Is BS. But do any of you realize that a mail truck has more priority than an ambush or a police car? 

[carolinarider09]

I cannot find numbers that indicate how many hospitals have been "overwhelmed" by the Corona-19 virus.  What we do know is inference and "reactions' by leaders.  The request for additional hospital space, hospital ship, items that are now largely unused leads one to believe that the information we are getting is being "formed" for a reason. 

So, lets assume that the number of corona-19 virus victims is overwhelming some of the nation's hospital.   What about the numbers. 

Corona-19  April 7th, 2020  Time

https://time.com/5783771/coronavirus-us-cases/

"The United States now has at least 368,449 confirmed cases and at least 10,993 confirmed deaths, per the tracker. The U.S. has at least an additional 200,000 reported cases compared to other countries with large COVID-19 outbreaks, such as Italy, Spain and China. There have been at least 75,973 confirmed deaths worldwide.

"New York has been the epicenter of the outbreak in the U.S.. As of Tuesday morning it had at least 131,830 confirmed cases of the virus, around 90,000 more than the next highest state, New Jersey, which has at least 41,090 cases."

Flu  NBC News September 7th, 2018  This report is about he 2017-2018 Flu season. 

(I assume since its NBC News reporting information from the CDC that these numbers are just for the USA).

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/doctors-speak-bluntly-about-record-80-000-flu-deaths-n914246

"Flu killed 80,000 people this past season and put 900,000 into the hospital, making it the worst influenza season in decades, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Thursday.

The numbers were shocking. Until now, CDC has said flu kills anywhere between 12,000 and 56,000 people a year, depending on how bad the flu season is, and that it puts between 250,000 and 700,000 into the hospital with serious illness. The numbers for the 2017-2018 flu season go far beyond that"

"“Those 80,000 people who died from flu last year? Guess what? They got it from someone. Someone gave them the flu,” Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams said at a news conference."

Those are just the facts.  And remember a "Flu" vaccine existed. 

I never heard a word about hospitals being overrun during the 2017-2018 Flu season. Never. 

And yes you could try and make the case that the Corona-19 virus is more deadly.  But the numbers don't support that.

Just run the numbers above 2017-2018 the Flu kills 80,000 people and we don't bat an eye.  No social distancing, no shutdown.  Just the way things go. 

And yes, you can make a case that the steps taken by the Governments have helped limit the infection rate. But I remind you that "flattening the curve" is not about minimizing the infections but making it last longer so that, supposedly, hospitals can cope. 

Again, I ask you to compare the numbers.  Flu hosptializations in 2017-2018 900,000....   Corona-19 hopstialzaiotns (unknown or I cannot find it) but lets assume everyone who was diagnosed with Corona-19 was placed in the hospital.  That number is about 370,000.  About one third of the Flu hosptialzions of 2017-2018. 

In this case the numbers don't lie. 

Oh I did several searches to find out if in the 2017-2018 flu season when 900,000 were hopstialzied with the Flu, if the needed to call in retired medical staff.  Could not find a single source or reference.

[Valkorado]

Hospitals being overrun due to COVID is not exactly about numbers, or which virus is more deadly.  It's about treatment time required.

The difference in hospital overcrowding C19 vs. flu is primarily that - - despite their large numbers - - flu patients  gradually flow into the hospitals throughout the season,  whereas C19 patients flooded the hospitals all at once.

Typical  C19 patients require longer periods in the hospital than their flu patient counterparts.   If needing ventilation C19 patients can take a week to 14 days hospitalization,  tying up the rooms for even longer periods of time.

[carolinarider09]

Hospitals being overrun due to COVID is not exactly about numbers, or which virus is more deadly.  It's about treatment time required.

The difference in hospital overcrowding C19 vs. flu is primarily that - - despite their large numbers - - flu patients  gradually flow into the hospitals throughout the season,  whereas C19 patients flooded the hospitals all at once.

Typical  C19 patients require longer periods in the hospital than their flu patient counterparts.   If needing ventilation C19 patients can take a week to 14 days hospitalization,  tying up the rooms for even longer periods of time.

In general the bit about "flow" is reasonable but not at the 900,000 level.  Which is three times the current Corona-19 cases. 

Longer periods in the hospital with one third the number of patients should seem to work out.  Still there are no numbers to support the hospitals being "overwhelmed".   

It is reported.  It has been assumed as you did by inference.  Remember it is highly probable that the same hospitals that had the "rush" and "urgent need" for more ventilators are the same ones that said they were being overwhelmed.  Neither of those requirements (ventilators or beds) were reached or needed. 

As I stated, the 1,000 bed Hospital Ship Mercy has maybe 100 patients.  Most of the other urgently needed hospital beds were, in fact not needed. 

A common response to this is that it was because of all the steps that were taken in advance and during.  Maybe.  I'd like to see the numbers for the common Flu.  Its hard to find.

The common Flu numbers, correlated from past years, would be broken down as follows.

Last quarter 2015 - First quarter 2016, then 2016-2017, and 2017-2018, and then 2018-2019 and finally 2019-2020. 

So, you would have X number in the last quarter of 2015 and Y number in the first quarter of 2016.  Then do the other years using the last quarter.  By using five years of data you should be able to reach a reusable hypothesis that would suggest a mathematical relationship. 

Using the mathematical relationship, you should be able to predict the number of Flu cases in the first quarter of a year based on the last quarter of the previous year. 

The reason you would do this is that Flu is spread in a way similar to the Corona-19 virus.  It would allow you to prove or disprove the theory that social distancing and locking down the country affected the spread of Corona-19. 

I have not seen that hypothesis documented.  Which, of and by itself, implies it will not prove the hypothesis about lock down and social distancing.   If such a mathematical relationship did prove that lock down and social distancing limited the spread of the seasonal Flu you would think it would be all over the news.  Again it is possible I missed this data points in one of President Trump's briefings.

I remind everyone that the 900,000 hospitalization number for the Flu in the 2017-2018 Flu season occurred with a vaccine available and easily obtained.

Finally here is a factoid.  There will not be a vaccine for Corona-19 until, at the earliest, late fall of 2020.  And, most say not until the spring of 2021.  That means another season of exposure to Corona-19.  Is everyone ready, willing and able to do what has been done to this country in March and April of this year in the fall or winter of this year and the next?  Are we all ready to close shop, "Go Home and Stay Home"? 

If not why not??

 

[Toovalks]

just checked...740,000 confirmed cases in the US. 39000 deaths.. don't know where your figures came from??? ... CNN 4/10/2020...just topped 500000 cases... soooo flu or not that's 240000 cases in 10 days
 So... in general flu season lasts 13 weeks that is 90 days... taking a linear progression that would mean  1.8 million cases in this season. Being obviously more virulent  you can see that this is not currently a linear progression hence well over 2 million possible??? By the way just checked Google   2017/2018 ,959000 cases (73500 cases / week avg.)61000 deaths (not 80000) 6.3 pct death rate  current corona  stats from above... 5.2 pct. death rate...  first corona case confirmed by CDC in US 2/28/2020 ...50 days
 740000/7 weeks= 106000 cases per week that we can confirm...probably many many more out there because of lack of testing( same thing w/ common flu probably ) but no one really has immunity(lasting ) to Covid yet soooo we are  dangling out there in my opinion...it looks as if we are flattening the curve,
if we weren't these statistics would be worse i'm sure... By the way ,my degree ,albeit 40 yrs ago, was in Bio-chemistry with post graduate work in pharmacology.... but i just loved working in wood.

[Valkorado]

Coronavirus vs. the flu: A look at key statistics and why that comparison is a no-contest

From the article :

"This is not to downplay influenza, a serious illness that infects countless people each year and kills tens of thousands. But it does not overwhelm hospitals.

The novel coronavirus is sending nearly 20% of all known cases to hospitals (even higher in Louisiana, near 30%). The flu puts about 2% of patients in hospital beds. That's a monumental difference in terms of health care, and the ripple effect across the U.S. and the world is evident.

There are other reasons, too, including the fatality rate".

Also length of stay is much longer on average for C19 patients.

Here, a visual list of charts, diagrams and stats comparing the two virii:

(continue with the article here to see the charts - -  they at helpful for some folks and include length of hospital stays,  etc.. average stay 5-6 Days flu, 11 days C19.)

https://www.nola.com/news/coronavirus/article_e33c0cf0-7090-11ea-b3da-53f5ab31dd4b.html

Also remember those seasonal flu cases requiring hospitalization still required hospitalization  - -  in addition to the flood of  C19 patients.   Add in other day to day ER  visits and it made for refrigerated trucks and burial trenches - -  right here in America.   Imagine that!!

BTW,  anyone that says some hospitals even in the good ol' USA were not overwhelmed has not read many of the case accounts  from doctors and nurses that I have.  Longer periods in the hospital for C19 patients didn't  seem to work out very well at all.  This is despite cancelations of  almost all elective surgeries.

[baldo]

From an ER nurse, unsure which hospital....



"This needs to be shared, and shared, and shared again.....

From an ER nurse, regarding the people protesting covid 19 restrictions:

"I am posting, for once, about something other than my dog.

I have seen 4 patients die, 5 get intubated, 2 re-intubated, witnessed family consent to make 2 more patients DNRs, sweat my butt off during CPR, titrated so many drips to no avail, watched vent settings increase to no avail. We are exhausted and at a total loss.

All of this in two shifts in a row.

Some of you people have never done EVERYTHING you could to save someone, and watched them die anyway, and it shows.

I would have no problem if you fools worried about your "freedom" all went out and got COVID. If only you could sign a form stating that you revoke your right to have medical treatment based on your cavalier antics and refusal to abide by CDC and medical professionals' advice. If you were the only people who got infected during your escapades to protest tyranny, great. But that's sadly not how this works.

You wanna complain because the garden aisle is closed? If you knew a thing about gardening, you'd know it's too early to plant in Michigan. Your garden doesn't matter. If killing your plants would bring back my patients, I would pillage the crap out of your "essential" garden beds.

Upset because you can't go boating...in Michigan...in April...in the cold-ass water? You wanna tell my patient's daughter (who was sobbing as she said goodbye to her father over the phone) about your first-world problems?

Upset because you can't go to your cottage up north? Your cottage...your second property...used for leisure. My coworkers can't even stay in their regular homes. Most have been staying in hotels and dorms, not able to see their spouses or babies.

All of these posts, petitions online to evade "tyranny", it's all such bullshit. I'm sorry you're bored and have nothing to do but bitch and moan. You wanna pick up a couple hours for me? Yeah, didn't think so. I wouldn't trust most of you with patient care, anyway. Not just because of the selfish lack of humanity your posts exude, but because most of those posts and petitions are so riddled with misspellings and grammatical errors, that it makes me question your cognitive capacity.

Shoutout to my coworkers, the real MVPs."

[Skinhead]

From an ER nurse, unsure which hospital....



"This needs to be shared, and shared, and shared again.....

From an ER nurse, regarding the people protesting covid 19 restrictions:

"I am posting, for once, about something other than my dog.

I have seen 4 patients die, 5 get intubated, 2 re-intubated, witnessed family consent to make 2 more patients DNRs, sweat my butt off during CPR, titrated so many drips to no avail, watched vent settings increase to no avail. We are exhausted and at a total loss.

All of this in two shifts in a row.

Some of you people have never done EVERYTHING you could to save someone, and watched them die anyway, and it shows.

I would have no problem if you fools worried about your "freedom" all went out and got COVID. If only you could sign a form stating that you revoke your right to have medical treatment based on your cavalier antics and refusal to abide by CDC and medical professionals' advice. If you were the only people who got infected during your escapades to protest tyranny, great. But that's sadly not how this works.

You wanna complain because the garden aisle is closed? If you knew a thing about gardening, you'd know it's too early to plant in Michigan. Your garden doesn't matter. If killing your plants would bring back my patients, I would pillage the poop out of your "essential" garden beds.

Upset because you can't go boating...in Michigan...in April...in the cold-ass water? You wanna tell my patient's daughter (who was sobbing as she said goodbye to her father over the phone) about your first-world problems?

Upset because you can't go to your cottage up north? Your cottage...your second property...used for leisure. My coworkers can't even stay in their regular homes. Most have been staying in hotels and dorms, not able to see their spouses or babies.

All of these posts, petitions online to evade "tyranny", it's all such bullshit. I'm sorry you're bored and have nothing to do but bitch and moan. You wanna pick up a couple hours for me? Yeah, didn't think so. I wouldn't trust most of you with patient care, anyway. Not just because of the selfish lack of humanity your posts exude, but because most of those posts and petitions are so riddled with misspellings and grammatical errors, that it makes me question your cognitive capacity.

Shoutout to my coworkers, the real MVPs."

https://www.facebook.com/brenda.mccallum.9/videos/3155806694453691/

We can do this all day.

[Robert]

https://www.facebook.com/brenda.mccallum.9/videos/3155806694453691/

We can do this all day.

I love this woman, my mother was a RN and shared many of the work experiences.  

Like everyone the nurse in Baldos post is really wrapped up in her work and like many that go into situations that you see many sick, wounded or dying it takes a toll on you. Like a hospital in a battle field or an ER in a major city on a Friday or Saturday night you have to be battle hardened to take the trauma in these work situations.

 Trauma that why its called that, because its not only trauma to the patients but also to the DR and nurses that see and deal with it. 

 When you cannot step back and see things as they really are. The frustration, upsetment, dealing with dying of people you take care of and usually get well plays terrible tricks on your mind. When most have a bad day at work we live to work another day but when you are involved with this and see people die that you wanted to save and would normally get better, then it puts things on a whole new level. Many nurses and Dr's are not prepared for this either.

 My deepest respect and thanks to those that care. 

But then you have to get into the nuts and bolts of health care. We have made a situation based on false predictions of the number of cases this covid will produce. Hospitals are already working at near capacity in some areas and like any business may not buy equipment, staff, beds and space for anything beyond regularly projected cases.

Heck even with health care costs many hospitals do not have the money to keep to much reserve. In fact some have gone out of business. With these projections, it was a scary proposition for government and hospitals and doctors, so they put the country in lock down. With projections that came out of nowhere and as good as a made up we were thinking 500k dead.

Now truth comes in and the cases in the US do not reflect the cases in the rest of the world or Italy that wrongly classified some deaths. Correct Facts and figures where scarce and like most things we had to see how things would shake out here in the US. So there are hot spots of care and need but on the whole the system is working like it should and hospitals are not over whelmed for the most part.

We are blessed that this outbreak is not as bad as the media hype has made it to be. We are also blessed that many people are coming to their senses and trying to return to normal life.

What this nurse is NOT seeing in her break down is the food that is not getting distributed, the people out of work, the people on unemployment, the lives damaged that were hanging on a thread, the fact that for every person that dies of Covid 19 approx 1100 have lost jobs.

Now I sympathize with Baldos nurse but the reality is, life will never be the same or take a long time to get there. That is the real problem, that many only see whats in front of them and cannot project the path of possible economic collapse. It could kill more than all this disease every did and we have already seen the rise of food lines. What happens when the bills put off become due, like mortgages and car payments and a host of other bills. Banks have pretty much stopped loaning money and have projected the defaults on housing to be worse than 2008.

So while I feel for everyone involved, which is the whole population, decisions were made that were made wrong, for a manufactured threat we knew nothing about. A threat that was projected to be much worse and actions taken to compensate at near war time levels.

I think blame is on the media, some politicians, some doctors, and some intelligence agencies all for not assessing the true severity of the problem. We pay trillions of dollars to three letter agencies, we funded this lab that gave the virus to the world, we knew about this testing and bats, Canada was working on this up to fairly recently.

 So where are the reserchers that knew about this, where is the three letter agencies that knew, where are the Dr's that knew, and why did the conditions at the lab get so bad that this leaked out?

We threw trillions at the problem of development and NOTHING protected us at the back end.

[Toovalks]

You have posed a real esoteric question.....

Will life ever be the same???   

Should life Ever be the same???

Should Governments, and profits and economies and people getting what they want, and my hefty 401k be more important than the people who live on this blue marble???

This is a real 1st world debate isn't it.??.
Choose...., your wife, your child your home in the suburbs? When it comes down to each of our worlds what is most cherished by each of us??? what would you give up??

The nurse in Baldo's post is just showing us her humanity and pointing up our indifference to what she sees. Stark contrasts aren't they.

3rd world-ers don't have these conversations.

For those on here that don't believe in the science behind global warming...business and profits and 401k's are more important ...till maybe it comes down to what choice you might have to make!!

History tells us that individual people have always been expendable..
in wars for territory, ideas, glory.
In corporate board rooms when it comes to workers, profits,investors, dividends stock options etc.

Perhaps it's time to see that Governments, territories, economies are just man made constructs.
People...die  and screw around with bat viruses and lie to their citizens trying to preserve their
Constructs(world as they want it)

The governments of the world have the ability to suspend all of these constructs.
No bills  to pay for the moment, no profits to be made ,no interest on debt to accrue... keep all the essential parts moving... food and shelter are safe.  Flip the switch and turn on the lights in the stock market..and get back to the business of taking advantage of one another.

butttt that requires us to focus on WE not ME

If we don't learn some lessons here about what's really important, what's going to happen when the next virus spreads easier than covid 19 and is as deadly as Ebola.

my mommy always said..."remember the four horses of the apocalypse Vanity and Jealousy,Lust and Greed"  of all of those Greed is the most divisive.   

[f6john]

 As one of my heroes reminded us, “stupid is as stupid does”. We are being bombarded with numbers and comparisons and charts and graphs which we all know can be manipulated depending on your point of view. For all the health care workers who are facing this virus head on, God bless them and they should have a voice and be heard. But their experience doesn’t mirror the millions of Americans across the country who, except for government intervention, could be working and going about the business of life with a few extra precautions.

[Valkorado]

As one of my heroes reminded us, “stupid is as stupid does”. We are being bombarded with numbers and comparisons and charts and graphs which we all know can be manipulated depending on your point of view. For all the health care workers who are facing this virus head on, God bless them and they should have a voice and be heard. But their experience doesn’t mirror the millions of Americans across the country who, except for government intervention, could be working and going about the business of life with a few extra precautions.

That hero also reminded us, "Life is like a box of chocolates.  You never know what you're gonna get".  This will be an experiment unlike any other we've tried.  I agree we can't wait for a vaccine, so we have to get the ball rolling, slowly.  It'll be interesting.

Without a vaccine, Trump's three-stage plan is about our best option.  If Americans are disciplined and don't prove that stupid is, indeed, as stupid does.  We still need WIDESPREAD testing for this plan to work.  Whether one admits it or not our nation was extremely late in testing, which hurt us.  NO, I do not blame our President for this.

That said my faith in my fellow Americans to continually practice good hygiene and sanitation is not unwavering, especially considering the virulent nature of this Chinese sh!t virus.

Time will tell...

[..]

  If Americans are disciplined and don't prove that stupid is, indeed, as stupid does.  We still need WIDESPREAD testing for this plan to work.  Whether one admits it or not our nation was ext

Time will tell...

[3fan4life]

From an ER nurse, unsure which hospital....



"This needs to be shared, and shared, and shared again.....

From an ER nurse, regarding the people protesting covid 19 restrictions:

"I am posting, for once, about something other than my dog.

I have seen 4 patients die, 5 get intubated, 2 re-intubated, witnessed family consent to make 2 more patients DNRs, sweat my butt off during CPR, titrated so many drips to no avail, watched vent settings increase to no avail. We are exhausted and at a total loss.

All of this in two shifts in a row.

Some of you people have never done EVERYTHING you could to save someone, and watched them die anyway, and it shows.

I would have no problem if you fools worried about your "freedom" all went out and got COVID. If only you could sign a form stating that you revoke your right to have medical treatment based on your cavalier antics and refusal to abide by CDC and medical professionals' advice. If you were the only people who got infected during your escapades to protest tyranny, great. But that's sadly not how this works.

You wanna complain because the garden aisle is closed? If you knew a thing about gardening, you'd know it's too early to plant in Michigan. Your garden doesn't matter. If killing your plants would bring back my patients, I would pillage the poop out of your "essential" garden beds.

Upset because you can't go boating...in Michigan...in April...in the cold-ass water? You wanna tell my patient's daughter (who was sobbing as she said goodbye to her father over the phone) about your first-world problems?

Upset because you can't go to your cottage up north? Your cottage...your second property...used for leisure. My coworkers can't even stay in their regular homes. Most have been staying in hotels and dorms, not able to see their spouses or babies.

All of these posts, petitions online to evade "tyranny", it's all such bullshit. I'm sorry you're bored and have nothing to do but bitch and moan. You wanna pick up a couple hours for me? Yeah, didn't think so. I wouldn't trust most of you with patient care, anyway. Not just because of the selfish lack of humanity your posts exude, but because most of those posts and petitions are so riddled with misspellings and grammatical errors, that it makes me question your cognitive capacity.

Shoutout to my coworkers, the real MVPs."

Many people get into nursing for all of the wrong reasons.

It sounds like whoever wrote this falls into that category.

If you read between the lines what you really have is someone complaining about having to do their job.


Post Note:

After re reading the post it is highly likely that it is total BS anyway.

It says that it's from an ER nurse.

The Covid patients aren't receiving this kind of care in the ED.

They are being treated in ICU's (turned into isolation wards) by ICU nurses.

[3fan4life]

You have posed a real esoteric question.....

Will life ever be the same???   

Should life Ever be the same???

Should Governments, and profits and economies and people getting what they want, and my hefty 401k be more important than the people who live on this blue marble???

This is a real 1st world debate isn't it.??.
Choose...., your wife, your child your home in the suburbs? When it comes down to each of our worlds what is most cherished by each of us??? what would you give up??

The nurse in Baldo's post is just showing us her humanity and pointing up our indifference to what she sees. Stark contrasts aren't they.

3rd world-ers don't have these conversations.

For those on here that don't believe in the science behind global warming...business and profits and 401k's are more important ...till maybe it comes down to what choice you might have to make!!

History tells us that individual people have always been expendable..
in wars for territory, ideas, glory.
In corporate board rooms when it comes to workers, profits,investors, dividends stock options etc.

Perhaps it's time to see that Governments, territories, economies are just man made constructs.
People...die  and screw around with bat viruses and lie to their citizens trying to preserve their
Constructs(world as they want it)

The governments of the world have the ability to suspend all of these constructs.
No bills  to pay for the moment, no profits to be made ,no interest on debt to accrue... keep all the essential parts moving... food and shelter are safe.  Flip the switch and turn on the lights in the stock market..and get back to the business of taking advantage of one another.

butttt that requires us to focus on WE not ME

If we don't learn some lessons here about what's really important, what's going to happen when the next virus spreads easier than covid 19 and is as deadly as Ebola.

my mommy always said..."remember the four horses of the apocalypse Vanity and Jealousy,Lust and Greed"  of all of those Greed is the most divisive.   

The scariest thing that our fine Governor said the other day was, "Normal will never be normal again".

It instantly made me wonder what the MF was up to.

[Serk]

The scariest thing that our fine Governor said the other day was, "Normal will never be normal again".

It instantly made me wonder what the MF was up to.

The Democrats are using this crisis as cover to try to change US voting laws permanently, removing common sense protections against voter fraud...

We must watch this very carefully and fight against them enabling unlimited fraudulent voting...

[Valkorado]

When it comes to this virus, I don't see the new normal being the old normal until we have a vaccine.  

That doesn't mean we don't carry on.  Carefully.

[Valkorado]

The scariest thing that our fine Governor said the other day was, "Normal will never be normal again".

It instantly made me wonder what the MF was up to.

The Democrats are using this crisis as cover to try to change US voting laws permanently, removing common sense protections against voter fraud...

We must watch this very carefully and fight against them enabling unlimited fraudulent voting...

Yup, nip that crap in the bud.  That's exactly the kind of crap I was talking about when I said virii aren't political.  People make them so.

[Serk]

The scariest thing that our fine Governor said the other day was, "Normal will never be normal again".

It instantly made me wonder what the MF was up to.

The Democrats are using this crisis as cover to try to change US voting laws permanently, removing common sense protections against voter fraud...

We must watch this very carefully and fight against them enabling unlimited fraudulent voting...

Yup, nip that poop in the bud.  That's exactly the kind of crap I was talking about when I said virii aren't political.  People make them so.

"Never let a crisis go to waste" Eric Holder accidentally let slip their intentions:

"Coronavirus gives us an opportunity to revamp our electoral system so that it permanently becomes more inclusive and becomes easier for the American people to access. It would be foolhardy to take these pro-democracy measures off the table after we get on the other side of the virus. These are changes that we should make permanent because it will enhance our democracy."

Source - https://time.com/5820622/elections-coronavirus-eric-holder/

[carolinarider09]

just checked...740,000 confirmed cases in the US. 39000 deaths.. don't know where your figures came from??? ... CNN 4/10/2020...just topped 500000 cases... soooo flu or not that's 240000 cases in 10 days
 So... in general flu season lasts 13 weeks that is 90 days... taking a linear progression that would mean  1.8 million cases in this season. Being obviously more virulent  you can see that this is not currently a linear progression hence well over 2 million possible??? By the way just checked Google   2017/2018 ,959000 cases (73500 cases / week avg.)61000 deaths (not 80000) 6.3 pct death rate  current corona  stats from above... 5.2 pct. death rate...  first corona case confirmed by CDC in US 2/28/2020 ...50 days
 740000/7 weeks= 106000 cases per week that we can confirm...probably many many more out there because of lack of testing( same thing w/ common flu probably ) but no one really has immunity(lasting ) to Covid yet soooo we are  dangling out there in my opinion...it looks as if we are flattening the curve,
if we weren't these statistics would be worse i'm sure... By the way ,my degree ,albeit 40 yrs ago, was in Bio-chemistry with post graduate work in pharmacology.... but i just loved working in wood.

If ou are referring to my post, I made it a point to cite my references in the text.  If not....

Just for the record, my degree is a Master in Business, and it was some 40 years ago, but I have found, in life, that degrees are only good for getting "started".  What is more important is what you do with that information. 

[carolinarider09]

Two quotes from a previous post;

Quote One:

“This is a real 1st world debate isn't it.??.
Choose…., your wife, your child your home in the suburbs?  When it comes down to each of our worlds what is most cherished by each of us???  what would you give up??"

The most important thing you did not mention.  That is what our fathers and forefathers, grandfathers, great grandfathers fought for “FREEDOM”.

Freedom as defined in the Deceleration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution.  How many died for those freedoms?  

Now, you ask a question about what to give up.  Today, we have given up all the freedoms defined in those documents.  And then next time this happens, will we be so eager to give them up again?  I hope not.  By God I hope not.


I hope we all see how easy it was for the government to take away these liberties and how willing we all were to give them up.  And how hard it is to get them back.  Just because we were told to fear.  And even told it may never be “normal” again.  

Quote Two:

“For those on here that don’t believe in the science behind global warming….business and profits and 401k’s are more important…till maybe it comes down to what choice you might have to make.”

This statement is an affront to anyone who can think for themselves (particularly bringing up “global warming”).  What is more important is not business and profits and 401k’s what is more important is FREEDOM.  

As I sit here, contemplating what has happened to his country, what could and might happen next time, I am in fear that we have lost our Freedom.   The price of Freedom is high.  It always has been and ever shall be.

And incase you need a reference.  

Time mark 2:13

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIvRkjOd1f8





 

[f6gal]

[3fan4life]

+1 

[Valkorado]

Amen!!!

I believe those who don't feel this way are either misguided or they simply can't see the forest for the trees.  

At least we all can agree that we love Valkyries!     I think.

[Robert]

You have posed a real esoteric question.....

Will life ever be the same???   

Should life Ever be the same???

For those on here that don't believe in the science behind global warming...business and profits and 401k's are more important ...till maybe it comes down to what choice you might have to make!!

butttt that requires us to focus on WE not ME

If we don't learn some lessons here about what's really important, what's going to happen when the next virus spreads easier than covid 19 and is as deadly as Ebola.

my mommy always said..."remember the four horses of the apocalypse Vanity and Jealousy,Lust and Greed"  of all of those Greed is the most divisive.   

Wow
 
First no one should be afraid of death, and yes when someone we love is taken from us it hurts like hell till we realize we will see them again and where we are going. Unless of course you dont know where you are going. No one wants to let loved ones be put in harms way.

The framers of our country knew full well the power government holds and inflicts on people.

I am assuming that you think its a good idea for government to tell us what to do when they have not really been successful at to much and really dont care about us.

I'm sure the depression was not good for people either, because while it may not be that bad now things can get much worse financially. I knew a few that went through this and they had much different thoughts than most today.

When people cannot pay for houses, food, car payments, had jobs and were just getting by and now have really no skill set or a skill set that wont really come back whats going to happen to these people.

So thinking about people is more than a snap judgement, or an emotional tear jerk or terror campaign. Its planning, knowing facts, making good judgements with good facts. 

One fact that has proven wrong that the government made a judgement over was 500k dead. Now we have about the same or less than the flu.

Nice that people lost everything over this and may have to rebuild a life. How many marriages will be dissolved over lack of finances or living on the street or a whole host of other situations.   

Which is worse according to you? Which will ultimately cause more death if that is the standard we are talking about here. Because there are many more, like quality of life for everyone.

That is caring actually, keeping a balance for people to have lives and yet safeguarding them as much as possible. Also one fact that seems not to present in this, making people personally responsible for their own life. What a concept, make people responsible and give them as many facts as possible to guide them through this time. Make sure all supplies are there also.

If you want to know what a life is worth, its everything, but if someone I love was dying I would do everything in my power to stop it but there comes a point that you have to say, its in Gods hands. Each person has to make their own decisions on this, but would I sacrifice anyone else's life for my loved one, no. That is essentially what you put out there in your post, sacrifice a nation, a person, a lifestyle and john's daughters next birthday because her family cannot have social gathering. Because the government said so, for no really good reason, with many assumed facts. How many cannot even go fishing out in the air alone. Really? What lives does this save?

One last thing, you quoted the four horsemen, so your grandmother was a christian.

But did she mention the Lords returning and birth pangs to you? Times of the seasons, was something the Lord wanted us all to know. If it had been the horsemen do you really think we would even be posting now.

U-571 (4/11) Movie CLIP - A Submarine Captain (2000) HD
https://youtu.be/3VKQkg9cpio

This is the whole part of making a decision, like I said Im glad Trump is in the office of president, I believe he got railroaded into closing the country down.

Conflict On Missile Launch (Phase 3)
https://youtu.be/vmNxZsXvGWo

When the framers of our country made the laws they did not do one thing, make laws for every situation or even think that government could do such a thing. But in our current environment this is where we are heading, Prison where no man has the rights.

John Adams Quotes
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. 

Our country is supposed to empower men and women to be all they can be and to take personal resposibility, not tell them what they can be, because when framed we believed each is given God given rights.

[carolinarider09]

"Our country is supposed to empower men and women to be all they can be and to take personal responsibility, not tell them what they can be, because when framed we believed each is given God given rights."

AMEN!

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. "

[Willow]

...
I would have no problem if you fools worried about your "freedom" all went out and got COVID. ...

Whoever he or she is it lost my sympathy here.  As for the rest, there's no real logic of the comparisons.  It's all about what awful thigs it has been exposed to so no one else should worry about meaningless restrictions that have nothing to do with slowing the spread of disease.  if this makes real sense to anyone that person needs to check his understanding of logic.

Additionally a few of the experiences related are unlikely of an ER nurse.  Perhaps the person only identified itself that way but is actually caring for people already admitted to the hospital.

It's a bullshit post and unvalidated.

[baldo]

...
I would have no problem if you fools worried about your "freedom" all went out and got COVID. ...

Whoever he or she is it lost my sympathy here.  As for the rest, there's no real logic of the comparisons.  It's all about what awful thigs it has been exposed to so no one else should worry about meaningless restrictions that have nothing to do with slowing the spread of disease.  if this makes real sense to anyone that person needs to check his understanding of logic.

Additionally a few of the experiences related are unlikely of an ER nurse.  Perhaps the person only identified itself that way but is actually caring for people already admitted to the hospital.

It's a bullshit post and unvalidated.

And the Mighty Willow swoops in yet again with his overwhelming intellectual superiority.

Of course you've considered the fact that she and thousands of nurses, doctors and support staff are being worked to the death....yes, the death, without necessary support and supplies. Being asked to do things and work in conditions that few of us on this board could even imagine. They haven't seen their families in weeks, they're exhausted, they're incredibly stressed.

Yet you, in your infinite wisdom, are calling it a bullshit comment? The only comment here fitting that description is yours.

[Willow]

And the Mighty Willow swoops in yet again with his overwhelming intellectual superiority.

Of course you've considered the fact that she and thousands of nurses, doctors and support staff are being worked to the death....yes, the death, without necessary support and supplies. Being asked to do things and work in conditions that few of us on this board could even imagine. They haven't seen their families in weeks, they're exhausted, they're incredibly stressed.

Yet you, in your infinite wisdom, are calling it a bullshit comment? The only comment here fitting that description is yours. 

I posted my response after reading your (baldo's) post for the first time.  After posting I went back to read others' responses, some of whom came to the same conclusions that I arrived at.  I'm surprised that recognizing my overwhelming intellectual superiority and infinite wisdom that you would choose to challenge my assessment.  Well, I guess that is easier than admitting that one was naive enough to be taken in by a false anecdote and then projecting it to apply to the viewpoint of every heroic doctor and nurse fighting this epidemic.

Yes, of course I considered the fact you mentioned although it was highly overstated as compared to reality.  I'm not, after all, narrow minded and focused on proving a particular point with anecdotes regardless of how ridiculous they may be.