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Davemn
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« on: April 21, 2020, 12:11:19 PM » |
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A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported.
The nationwide study was not a rigorous experiment. But with 368 patients, it's the largest look so far of hydroxychloroquine with or without the antibiotic azithromycin for COVID-19, which has killed more than 171,000 people as of Tuesday.
The study was posted on an online site for researchers and has has not been reviewed by other scientists. Grants from the National Institutes of Health and the University of Virginia paid for the work.
Researchers analyzed medical records of 368 male veterans hospitalized with confirmed coronavirus infection at Veterans Health Administration medical centers who died or were discharged by April 11.
About 28% who were given hydroxychloroquine plus usual care died, versus 11% of those getting routine care alone. About 22% of those getting the drug plus azithromycin died too, but the difference between that group and usual care was not considered large enough to rule out other factors that could have affected survival.
Hydroxychloroquine made no difference in the need for a breathing machine, either.
Researchers did not track side effects, but noted a hint that hydroxychloroquine might have damaged other organs. The drug has long been known to have potentially serious side effects, including altering the heartbeat in a way that could lead to sudden death.
Earlier this month, scientists in Brazil stopped part of a study testing chloroquine, an older drug similar to hydroxychloroquine, after heart rhythm problems developed in one-quarter of people given the higher of two doses being tested.
Many doctors have been leery of the drug.
At the University of Wisconsin, Madison, "I think we're all rather underwhelmed" at what's been seen among the few patients there who've tried it, said Dr. Nasia Safdar, medical director of infection control and prevention.
Patients asked about it soon after Trump started promoting its use, "but now I think that people have realized we don't know if it works or not" and needs more study, said Safdar, who had no role in the VA analysis.
The NIH and others have more rigorous tests underway.
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vanavyman
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« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2020, 12:24:45 PM » |
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I know a 32 year old truck driver that was up in Washington and got the Virus bad. For over 2 weeks he thought he was going to die barely able to breath. Did not go on a ventilator. They gave him a dose of the Malaria drug and when he woke up he was able to breath. After 2nd dose started to feel he would be ok. He was released from the hospital a week and a half later. Maybe it was just his time to get better but no one will convince him it did not save his life. I do believe he will never smoke again. Virus just kicked his ass.
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2015 Red GL1800 Level 4 w/2015 Tailwind Trailer
1999 Valkyrie Custom Interstate w/2006 Bushtec Roadstar Trailer
2000 Valkyrie Interstate Roadsmith Trike (Wife's)
Member Number 33081
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Robert
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« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2020, 12:38:32 PM » |
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Every other study and reference to the combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin seem to indicate they work well. I can bring up numerous cases. I actually know a couple of people that took this and praised it.
I have a problem using veterans as guinea pigs.
The drug needed to be administered not when full blown either but when symptoms start.
Heck they have not done any tests to find out what these people die of either.
They have no other option and its amazing that these drugs are flying off the shelf, in many countries if they didnt work.
The quote below is very sad indeed, I wish I did not know things like this went on. Instead of trying to help these vetrans they used them as a control group.
About 28% who were given hydroxychloroquine plus usual care died, versus 11% of those getting routine care alone. About 22% of those getting the drug plus azithromycin died too,
To sum it up you didnt care enough to think about the study and what was happening to these vetrans you just wanted to bad mouth Trump, very sad and a disgrace actually you did not think.
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« Last Edit: April 21, 2020, 12:52:18 PM by Robert »
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“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
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DarkSideR
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Posts: 1793
To be good, and to do good, is all we have to do.
Pueblo, Colorado
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« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2020, 12:39:43 PM » |
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Titled - "Trump's miracle cure"
First line - "drug widely touted by President..."
So many questions arise from this.
So which is it?
- A miracle cure, or a drug?
- Is it indeed Trump's, or was it just touted?
Do you honestly think Trump claimed it as a cure? I ask this because he only stated it was a possible treatment to help those infected.
Do you honestly think Trump came up with this on his own? I ask this because it's widely known that France was trying/testing this before Trump proclaimed it as a mira.. wait, touted it as a.. whatever.
Why are you not using strong language against France, nor include the many other countries who have since put their hopes into the drug as well?
Is it wrong for our President to be optimistic about something?
Is it wrong from our President to try something rather than do nothing?
Do you always show your Anti-Trump hand that early in a post, or just copy and paste the propaganda directly from the Lame Stream Media?
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« Last Edit: April 21, 2020, 01:09:48 PM by DarkSideR »
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f6john
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Posts: 9380
Christ first and always
Richmond, Kentucky
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« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2020, 12:59:39 PM » |
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Shame on you Dave. But then CBS and the rest are just as misleading in their reporting and their analyses of what Trump does say.
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NewValker
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VRCC# 36356
Oxford, MA
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« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2020, 01:00:08 PM » |
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Wow! A secret site that no other researchers can check out... I’m convinced, Trump sux and I’ll be doing a write - in for Pocahontas  SMH, Craig |
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Turns out not what or where, but who you ride with really matters  |
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« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2020, 01:05:52 PM » |
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Serks buddy was saved by the drug. That's all the proof I need.
You sir, are full of it.
Once again.
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« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2020, 01:06:25 PM » |
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Bighead
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« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2020, 01:11:09 PM » |
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 Just another pot stirrer. Also go ask G-mans wife what she thinks about this treatment. 
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« Last Edit: April 21, 2020, 01:15:33 PM by Bighead »
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Willow
Administrator
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Posts: 16631
Excessive comfort breeds weakness. PttP
Olathe, KS
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« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2020, 01:17:42 PM » |
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...
The quote below is very sad indeed, I wish I did not know things like this went on. Instead of trying to help these vetrans they used them as a control group.
About 28% who were given hydroxychloroquine plus usual care died, versus 11% of those getting routine care alone. About 22% of those getting the drug plus azithromycin died too,
To sum it up you didnt care enough to think about the study and what was happening to these vetrans you just wanted to bad mouth Trump, very sad and a disgrace actually you did not think.
In fairness, Robert, it was not actually a formal test with a control group and a group specifically given the tested medicine. It was simply a review of some records indicating who had and who had not received the hydroxychloroquine and comparing numbers of fatalities and recoveries. It's a flawed example as there is no consideration to when and what doses were given. Further since the current mindset of many in the medical profession is to only use this option as a last resort, that is when the patient is likely to die without it, it does make sense that a large percentage of those given the medicine did die. It is sad that anyone would celebrate any invalid study that claims to disqualify a possible cure just so one could ridicule a person who holds some hope that it may work. I still think it is a viable approach to surviving COVID-19 and I will vote against Davemn in November. |
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Serk
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« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2020, 01:28:16 PM » |
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Serks buddy was saved by the drug. That's all the proof I need.
The really ironic part is that my buddy has TDS almost as bad as the OP.... (And still does.) But he does credit the hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin cocktail with saving his life. Of course, that might be cause when he was given the life saving cocktail it was just known as the "hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin cocktail" not the "Trump Miracle Cure." |
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« Last Edit: April 21, 2020, 01:44:47 PM by Serk »
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away...  IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2020, 01:38:28 PM » |
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Let's compare a clinically effective drug to cannibalism and other snake oil. Nice try. |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2020, 01:41:26 PM » |
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Let's compare a clinically effective drug to cannibalism and other snake oil. Nice try. I’m not comparing anything. Just pointing out it’s human nature to search for the quick fix. |
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« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2020, 01:43:29 PM » |
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I’m not comparing anything. Just pointing out it’s human nature to search for the quick fix. [/quote] Knowing your track record I have no belief in the words you have typed in response to my statement. |
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Jersey mike
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« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2020, 02:00:32 PM » |
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See I have ha real problem with this information when there were several different reports not just from in the US but in other countries as well. Is it better to leave a potentially viable solution on the shelf because we don’t know if or how it works and whom it may work on or is it better to try a potential remedy which has been in use outside of a remedy for a new issue for a few decades. The impatient attitude out there regarding finding a cure in any way, shape or form is remarkable and unrealistic. I think too many people watch too many Si-Fi movies or old school Star Trek shows when a virus is loaded into a computer tray and minutes later a remedy pops out another drawer loaded and ready for use. After a quick search the closest I could find https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UtllgbUiTt0 |
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F6Dave
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« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2020, 02:06:48 PM » |
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Serks buddy was saved by the drug. That's all the proof I need.
The really ironic part is that my buddy has TDS almost as bad as the OP.... (And still does.) But he does credit the hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin cocktail with saving his life. Of course, that might be cause when he was given the life saving cocktail it was just known as the "hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin cocktail" not the "Trump Miracle Cure." How is your friend doing? The last I saw (might have missed a post) he was out of danger but still far from feeling good. |
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Wizzard
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Bald River Falls
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« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2020, 02:12:00 PM » |
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all I can say is back the first of Feb 1st Wife and I and SIL and her husband went to Cabo on vacation for 2 weeks. We got there first week with 2 of my adult children. Within 2 days of arriving I got this virus, and I have not been sick in 40 years. Sickest I have ever been. My wife got it, kids got it and we all recovered. When my SIL and her husband came down she got it. BIL never got it. Turns out he is on hydroxychloroquine for his Lymes disease. We all survived.
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Serk
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« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2020, 02:48:49 PM » |
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Serks buddy was saved by the drug. That's all the proof I need.
The really ironic part is that my buddy has TDS almost as bad as the OP.... (And still does.) But he does credit the hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin cocktail with saving his life. Of course, that might be cause when he was given the life saving cocktail it was just known as the "hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin cocktail" not the "Trump Miracle Cure." How is your friend doing? The last I saw (might have missed a post) he was out of danger but still far from feeling good. He posted today in a different topic on Facebook (Double ironically, one in which he was bashing "President Cheeto Face" (Willow, mod me if necessary, just showing the levels of TDS; that was a direct quote) that he's 100% fine at this point. |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away... IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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Pappy!
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« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2020, 02:53:11 PM » |
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Simply another hit and run piece by someone who will not and can not come back and back up his claim.
Trump never claimed it was a miracle drug or that it would be a cure all.
As any good leader would do, Trump is relying on an amazingly good staff of folks, under him, who have the brains and the capability to find a cure. He is not an expert nor would I ever expect him to be one in the world of medicine.
Trump is the man on the firing line for the rest of the country and for some of the rest of the world. He does not hide behind others. Like the fake news outlets this was just another cheap shot.
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Savago
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« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2020, 03:05:22 PM » |
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One last thing that I don't see the media (both 'Faux News' and CNN) covering is the complications of getting the disease and surviving it. This is what a researcher has to say about the subject:  |
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Serk
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« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2020, 03:31:58 PM » |
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We're getting way off in the weeds now, but oh well, this was a troll thread to begin with.... I'll just say I've had far greater acceptance as an Atheist/Agnostic among conservative groups than I have as a non-liberal among Atheist groups... I've been disinvited from most local Atheist/Free Thinker groups for daring to free think my way out of worshiping government. Sad how many people throw off the shackles of one belief system only to beg to have even harsher shackles put on them instead.  |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away... IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2020, 03:33:50 PM » |
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I think is fascinating how in this days everyone knowns someone with Covid-19 that was saved by it...  Serks buddy and G mans nurse wife. Still fascinated???  |
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« Last Edit: April 21, 2020, 03:36:47 PM by Britman »
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Savago
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« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2020, 03:46:41 PM » |
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@Britman: I dunno what you are talking i.e. 'G Mans nurse wife'. Some other thread?
About Serk's friend: 1 individual response to a treatment is not enough evidence to propose a 'cure' to millions of people. There is need for experiments/statistical analysis.
I shared what I known about the experiment in Brazil. Do whatever you want with the information, no need to be calling names (i.e. edited 'Dick!').
I will use as an example: my granpa lived 87 years. He smoked daily since he was 14 years old. Does it mean that all people that smoke for 73 years will live that long?
Nopes.
And this is exactly why I avoided discussing the subject: " ... some people get blind on their faith that it is a 'magical cure'."
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« Last Edit: April 21, 2020, 03:50:51 PM by Savago »
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Serk
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« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2020, 03:52:57 PM » |
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@Britman: I dunno what you are talking i.e. 'G Mans nurse wife'. Some other thread?
Congratulations! But I need more info was she sick?
Went to work at both her nursing jobs throughout this crap and I could see it was wearing on her. I could see it her face. I'm sure the stress left her somewhat immunocompromised. She developed a mild fever a couple weeks ago and tested positive. She went through some horrible days full of pain and fear. She told me one night that she never regretted a minute of the time we've been together so she must have had bouts of delirium as well. Thank goodness we have 2 Drs, 4 RNs, and 2 nursing students in the family that checked in and took care of her. She took the hydroxychloroquine and turned the corner right away. Had some good days and bad days over the last week+ and the last 2 days has all been good.  |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away... IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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Savago
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« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2020, 03:55:05 PM » |
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I wasn't aware of it, I'm glad she made a full recovery.  |
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Serk
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« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2020, 03:56:42 PM » |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away... IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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Robert
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« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2020, 04:05:43 PM » |
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I see much derision but not much else, if it saves 5 lives wasn't that worth it?
Heck we get the speech that we are on lock down because if it saves a few lives its worth throwing the whole economy out the window and now when something actually works in at least some cases you lefties are out of your minds attacking this.
Common really, I mean really? Especially really when you have NOTHING Better to offer.
Heck you guys approve of experimental testing on our veterans.
As for prayer, I prayed people to be healed of hep C and quite a few more have gotten healed. I have seen others even raise the dead. But this is a discussion for another time.
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« Last Edit: April 21, 2020, 04:24:04 PM by Robert »
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“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2020, 04:09:26 PM » |
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I’m not comparing anything. Just pointing out it’s human nature to search for the quick fix. Knowing your track record I have no belief in the words you have typed in response to my statement. [/quote]That's a shame. Your beliefs mean a whole lot to me.  |
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« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2020, 04:17:07 PM » |
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I’m not comparing anything. Just pointing out it’s human nature to search for the quick fix. Knowing your track record I have no belief in the words you have typed in response to my statement. That's a shame. Your beliefs mean a whole lot to me. [/quote] Knowing your track record I have no belief in the words you have typed in response to my statement. |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2020, 04:21:35 PM » |
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I’m not comparing anything. Just pointing out it’s human nature to search for the quick fix. Knowing your track record I have no belief in the words you have typed in response to my statement. That's a shame. Your beliefs mean a whole lot to me. Knowing your track record I have no belief in the words you have typed in response to my statement. [/quote]Well, at least you got one response correct.  |
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DarkSideR
Member
Posts: 1793
To be good, and to do good, is all we have to do.
Pueblo, Colorado
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« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2020, 04:22:20 PM » |
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Wow, this thread went downhill.. from an already low point.
Why don't we have a face palm emoji?
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2001 Valkyrie Super Tourer VRCC#34410 VRCCDS#0263 |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2020, 04:26:59 PM » |
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I see much derision but not much else, if it saves 5 lives wasn't that worth it?
Heck we get the speech that we are on lock down because if it saves a few lives its worth throwing the whole economy out the window and now when something actually works in at least some cases you lefties are out of your minds attacking this.
Common really, I mean really? Especially really when you have NOTHING Better to offer.
Heck you guys approve of experimental testing on our veterans.
As for prayer, I prayed people to be healed of hep C and quite a few more have gotten healed. I have seen others even raise the dead. But this is a discussion for another time.
You have seen deceased brought back to life by prayer ? |
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DarkSideR
Member
Posts: 1793
To be good, and to do good, is all we have to do.
Pueblo, Colorado
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« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2020, 04:31:16 PM » |
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Attacking religious beliefs is quite tasteless. Come guys you are better than that.
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Jersey mike
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« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2020, 04:34:30 PM » |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2020, 04:34:54 PM » |
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Attacking religious beliefs is quite tasteless. Come guys you are better than that.
Are you referring to my question to Robert ? |
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DarkSideR
Member
Posts: 1793
To be good, and to do good, is all we have to do.
Pueblo, Colorado
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« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2020, 04:36:45 PM » |
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Attacking religious beliefs is quite tasteless. Come guys you are better than that.
Are you referring to my question to Robert ? I am referring to multiple posts. Be respectful. We are all Valkyrie brethren here. |
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« Last Edit: April 21, 2020, 04:38:28 PM by DarkSideR »
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Serk
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« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2020, 04:40:11 PM » |
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Attacking religious beliefs is quite tasteless. Come guys you are better than that.
Are you referring to my question to Robert ? I am referring to multiple posts. Be respectful. We are all Valkyrie brethren here. For what it's worth, although I don't share in the belief, I try to be respectful on the topic. If my commentary came across as otherwise, it wasn't intended, and I apologize. |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away... IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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f6gal
Administrator
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Surprise, AZ
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« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2020, 04:43:00 PM » |
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First, it's not "Trump's miracle cure." Trump didn't come up with it... doctors did. I became aware of the use of hydroxychloroquine/azithromycin combination well before Trump started talking about it. In fact, in a PM, I suggested to Serk that he have his friend ask his doctors for it. Whether or not that influenced his treatment, I have no idea. I can tell you that many doctors are treating with the cocktail (along with Zinc now). Many NY doctors are taking hydroxycholorquine prophylactically, due to their level of exposure. Unfortunately, many patients are not receiving the regimen until they are already quite ill and it may be too late for it to be effective (which may be the case with the VA patients in the OP). To fairly test the treatment, it should be given at a patient's first symptoms.
If I contract COVID-19, I'll let you know... cuz I'll be taking it the second I have cough and fever!!
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« Last Edit: April 21, 2020, 05:21:42 PM by f6gal »
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DarkSideR
Member
Posts: 1793
To be good, and to do good, is all we have to do.
Pueblo, Colorado
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« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2020, 04:47:25 PM » |
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Attacking religious beliefs is quite tasteless. Come guys you are better than that.
Are you referring to my question to Robert ? I am referring to multiple posts. Be respectful. We are all Valkyrie brethren here. For what it's worth, although I don't share in the belief, I try to be respectful on the topic. If my commentary came across as otherwise, it wasn't intended, and I apologize. No need to apologize. Expressing views, opinions, great. Attacking beliefs is below the belt. The assumption here is that we are all good people with a shared common interest/love. Let's remember that. |
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