They say the virus prefers cool dry air

[Willow]

In hopes that the approaching summer weather will diminish the COVID-19 spread we are told the virus does well in cool dry air but doesn't do well in hot moist air.  Nobody seems to be concerned that even during Summer we use air conditioning so that our homes, grocery stores, department stores and eating places are filled with cool dry air.

Is anyone else concerned about this?  I want the Summer to dial down our fears.

[Pappy!]

True, however the virus cannot live long on things like car door handles, home door handles, any surface outside due to the heat.
The ability to transport the virus is lessened at least.
As stated before in some other thread....we hardly ever see cases of flu down here in the Summertime.

[John Schmidt]

Hey, I know where there's some cool dry air....really cool. 

[Bret SD]

This may help..

FROM THE INFECTIOUS DISEASE DEPARTMENT AT JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY

*The virus is not a living organism, but a protein molecule (DNA) covered by a protective layer of lipid (fat), which when absorbed by the cells of the ocular, nasal or buccal mucosa, changes their genetic code (mutation) and convert them into aggressor and multiplier cells.

*Since the virus is not a living organism but a protein molecule, it is not killed, but decays on its own. The disintegration time depends on the temperature, humidity and type of material where it lies.

*The virus is very fragile; the only thing that protects it is a thin outer layer of fat. That is why any soap or detergent is the best remedy, because the foam CUTS the FAT (that is why you have to rub so much: for 20 seconds or more, to make a lot of foam). By dissolving the fat layer, the protein molecule disperses and breaks down on its own.

*HEAT melts fat; this is why it is so good to use water above 25 degrees Celsius for washing hands, clothes and everything. In addition, hot water makes more foam and that makes it even more useful.

*Alcohol or any mixture with alcohol over 65% DISSOLVES ANY FAT, especially the external lipid layer of the virus.

*Any mix with 1 part bleach and 5 parts water directly dissolves the protein, breaks it down from the inside.

*Oxygenated water helps long after soap, alcohol and chlorine, because peroxide dissolves the virus protein, but you have to use it pure and it hurts your skin.

*NO BACTERICIDE SERVES. The virus is not a living organism like bacteria; they cannot kill what is not alive with antibiotics, but quickly disintegrate its structure with everything said.

*NEVER shake used or unused clothing, sheets or cloth. While it is glued to a porous surface, it is very inert and disintegrates only between 3 hours (fabric and porous), 4 hours (copper, because it is naturally antiseptic; and wood, because it removes all the moisture and does not let it peel off and disintegrates, 24 hours (cardboard), 42 hours (metal) and 72 hours (plastic). But if you shake it or use a feather duster, the virus molecules float in the air for up to 3 hours and can lodge in your nose.

*The virus molecules remain very stable in external cold, or artificial as air conditioners in houses and cars. They also need moisture to stay stable and especially darkness. Therefore, dehumidified, dry, warm and bright environments will degrade it faster.

*UV LIGHT on any object that may contain it breaks down the virus protein. For example, to disinfect and reuse a mask is perfect. Be careful, it also breaks down collagen (which is a protein) in the skin, eventually causing wrinkles and akin cancer.

*The virus CANNOT go through healthy skin

*Vinegar is NOT useful because it does not break down the protective layer of fat

*NO SPIRITS, NOR VODKA, serve. The strongest vodka is 40% alcohol, and you need 65%

*LISTERINE IF IT SERVES! It is 65% alcohol

*The more confined the space, the more concentration of the virus there can be. The more open or naturally ventilated, the less

*This has been said over and over- you have to wash your hands before and after touching mucosa, food, locks, knobs, switches, remote controls, cell phones, watches, computers, desks, TV, etc. And when using the bathroom-You have to HUMIDIFY HANDS DRY from so much washing them, because the molecules can hide in the micro cracks. The thicker the moisturizer, the better Also keep your nails SHORT so that the virus does not hide there.

[Willow]

Bretshim, I tend to throw out much of what that quote says (I've read it before) because Listerine is nowhere near 65% alcohol.  

Also everything I have read says low humidity and cool air serve the virus best whereas the writeup says the virus needs moisture.  That seems to be contradictory.

Whether a virus is living or not has been discussed and disagreed upon by experts for over a hundred years.  I tend to lean toward non-living but once attached to living cells it seems to take on the qualities of a living organism.  Perhaps it's like a tiny egg.    

[carolinarider09]

I have wondered, recently, about the living, non-living attributes of this virus. 

The question I have is, can it replicate?  If I inhale one viral particle and it finds a place to attach, my body should react and try to kill the virus. 

So, one viral particle should be helpful in making the needed anti-bodies. 

On the other hand, inhaling many viral particles could cause the body to make an overwhelming response which, as I understand it, is the bad thing. 

Thoughts??

[Willow]

I have wondered, recently, about the living, non-living attributes of this virus. 

The question I have is, can it replicate?  If I inhale one viral particle and it finds a place to attach, my body should react and try to kill the virus. 

So, one viral particle should be helpful in making the needed anti-bodies. 

On the other hand, inhaling many viral particles could cause the body to make an overwhelming response which, as I understand it, is the bad thing. 

Thoughts??

Therein lies the controversy over the living or non-living state of a virus.  A virus on its own does not replicate.  When attached to a living cell the virus uses the attributes of the living cell to begin to replicate and it alters the cell to which it has attached itself.  The damage to the body is not done by its own antibodies, but by the multiplying and damaging viruses to the cells to which they are attached.   

[Valkorado]

It absolutely replicates within the body,  and between  upper and lower respiratory tracts.   It's said it replicates within the GI system.


The replication can cause the body's immune system attack to cause a cytokine storm.  

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/how-does-coronavirus-kill-clinicians-trace-ferocious-rampage-through-body-brain-toes

The spikes help the virus attach to our respiratory  tract - -  sinus,  throat,  etc.   More so with C19 than even with SARS.   So yeah,  even one little bastard could make for a bad result.

[Bret SD]

Bretshim, I tend to throw out much of what that quote says (I've read it before) because Listerine is nowhere near 65% alcohol.  

Also everything I have read says low humidity and cool air serve the virus best whereas the writeup says the virus needs moisture.  That seems to be contradictory.

Whether a virus is living or not has been discussed and disagreed upon by experts for over a hundred years.  I tend to lean toward non-living but once attached to living cells it seems to take on the qualities of a living organism.  Perhaps it's like a tiny egg.    

Willow,

Yes, I know some folks much smarter than I who lean toward, or reject the idea of a 'non living' organism.

I looked at the Listerine bit and thought the same thing.. upon checking it, you're right, it's nowhere near 65% alcohol.

On dry air vs humid I tend to think of petroleum based products losing oil through a drying out process in say, a desert climate.
My thinking is the oil in fats may evaporate a bit slower with the introduction of some humidity, though it may be within some form of humidity 'Goldilocks zone'.

IDK.. interesting question nonetheless.

[Rams]

FROM THE INFECTIOUS DISEASE DEPARTMENT AT JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY

*UV LIGHT on any object that may contain it breaks down the virus protein.

This one intrigued me.   Basically because I have an acquaintance (living in FL) that has an intense UV light specifically designed for his HVAC.   In that I'm currently involved in renovating our home with two new HVAC systems, I thought why not, found them on the internet and they are not all that expensive.

Asked my HVAC installer about it and was informed that any modification to the HVAC system that he did not install would void my warranty.   He said he could install such a device but it would have to be one that he sold.   Hmmmm….  He would not comment on it's effectiveness.   His UV units were about 10 times more expensive.

So, I decided to check with another friend (an engineer) that owned an energy consultation business to get his opinion.  His opinion was that if, a virus, bacteria, germ, mold or human was exposed to the high intensity light long enough it would kill but, that with the massive amount of air that an HVAC processes  and the velocity of that air passing through the system on  a daily basis, he doubted the effectiveness of the aforementioned UV high intensity light.

So, now I'm doubting the effectiveness, seeing my HVAC installer in a different light and wondering if this isn't just another idea someone is marketing to make a buck.  

Rams

[hubcapsc]

"they" say all kinds of things. I saw the President's news conference yesterday
where he introduced Bill Bryan to talk about how "increasing the temperature
and humidity or both is generally less favorable to the virus"... not much later
I looked at accuweather to see when the storm outside was going to subside.
There was a headline there: "Even the highest summer temperatures may not
hinder new coronavirus, study suggest By Mark Puleo, AccuWeather staff writer"

-Mike "screw it, it is a nice day out there now  "

[0leman]

Hey, we live in a rather dry climate here in Southern OR.   So as the temps go up this time of year, the humidity goes down.   We have already been down below 24% so far this year.  So if the Virus does like warm humid air does this mean it will be happy with warm dry air? 

[RP#62]

Supposed to be in the 100's for the next week here in Phoenix.  Take that COVID.

-RP

[Alpha Dog]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVs5AyjzwRM

She explains all we have been told.

[Bret SD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVs5AyjzwRM

She explains all we have been told.

Hahaha

[Rams]

FROM THE INFECTIOUS DISEASE DEPARTMENT AT JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY

*UV LIGHT on any object that may contain it breaks down the virus protein.

This one intrigued me.   Basically because I have an acquaintance (living in FL) that has an intense UV light specifically designed for his HVAC.   In that I'm currently involved in renovating our home with two new HVAC systems, I thought why not, found them on the internet and they are not all that expensive.

Asked my HVAC installer about it and was informed that any modification to the HVAC system that he did not install would void my warranty.   He said he could install such a device but it would have to be one that he sold.   Hmmmm….  He would not comment on it's effectiveness.   His UV units were about 10 times more expensive.

So, I decided to check with another friend (an engineer) that owned an energy consultation business to get his opinion.  His opinion was that if, a virus, bacteria, germ, mold or human was exposed to the high intensity light long enough it would kill but, that with the massive amount of air that an HVAC processes  and the velocity of that air passing through the system on  a daily basis, he doubted the effectiveness of the aforementioned UV high intensity light.

So, now I'm doubting the effectiveness, seeing my HVAC installer in a different light and wondering if this isn't just another idea someone is marketing to make a buck.  

Rams

Anyone with any knowledge of HVAC UV lighting?   

Rams

[carolinarider09]

You can ask the question here.  I have used the forum to answer my questions when I was building my house and installing the HVAC system.  I got reliable (in hindsight) information.

https://hvac-talk.com/vbb/

[Robert]

Anyone with any knowledge of HVAC UV lighting?   

Rams

I have a UV light that I installed and made on my system and I am glad I did it. I wanted it for eliminating smells, mold, mildew, generally cleaning the air and keeping the ducts clean. But noticed like you found that the factory ones were very expensive. I hate getting ripped off so I looked at the just the lights and at first they were hard to find but eventually did and they are pretty cheap. So the more I read the more I wanted one so I built my own.

Had a few tries but this last configuration seems to work well. Installed it in the air box behind the filter, and it has direct light contact with the coils and the light also shines directly on the filter. I lined the inside of the air box with some shiny metal and so its fully reflective on the inside. So from the time the air comes into the unit through the filter to the time it hits the coils it is exposed to UV light. The light stays on 24/7 also so it means that it continues to clean the filter and  the coils face which is exposed to incoming air.

My first try worked, so I increased the wattage and put in two bulbs. This made a real difference, and I have left it like this since it seems to do what I want. I could go more but I feel I would more than likely I would have to step up the design that I did and not really sure if it would translate into better air.

What I noticed was the ac condensate drain does not get filled with the normal slime and stays clean, when switching from ac to heat there was not the usual smell of the first startup when the coils get hot and anything on them burns off. When you walk into the house there used to be a slight smell that is gone completely and it smells fresh. Cooking smells and normal house smells are gone quickly and dont come back either. No mold or mildew in the duct work or anywhere inside the ac unit. Less rust since less slime to keep things moist. The coils stay clean, like spotless clean and and so does the condensate drain. Clothes, and anything taken from the house smell fresher also. 
 
I like it and would do it on any house I live in and its one of those things you never  know how much you like it till you try it. I also have a whole house water filter and am considering putting a UV light in line to disinfect the water also. The results have been good enough with the ac system that I would consider this.

I will say some of the benefits are not immediate, it takes some time to stop mold and such since its not a one pass kill but it does not need to be either.  UV light does kill mold and viruses but it also stops replication of the mold by destroying its ability to reproduce and therefore it can take time. This is not for a clean room or anything that needs to be sterile, so one pass is not needed just something that will kill on successive passes and kill anything in the air and on the coils and the filters. It will kill virus and a better filter will help to stop viruses and the UV light shining on the filter it will kill them. Virus are 0.004 to 0.1 microns in size, which is about 100 times smaller than bacteria so it means that no filter would be 100 percent effective and any filter that effective would be restrictive of the air flow. But air flowing past the UV lights will be cleaned of these pretty effectively and if you want to have more effectiveness cleaning these particles you can up the intensity of the light. Air that passes within a couple of inches should be good enough to stop most of these air borne viruses and bacteria with the high air flow of the ac system. I have no complaints about mine and its not that high intensity.

A better filter, and a UV light will go a long way to making the house much more comfortable. In the article below if you read it you will notice that an overhead UV light kills viruses and the ones in the ac systems are much more intense including the ones that I installed.

Can UV Light Fight the Spread of Influenza?
https://www.cuimc.columbia.edu/news/can-uv-light-fight-spread-influenza

[pais]

Anyone with any knowledge of HVAC UV lighting?   

Rams

I have a UV light that I installed and made on my system and I am glad I did it. I wanted it for eliminating smells, mold, mildew, generally cleaning the air and keeping the ducts clean. But noticed like you found that the factory ones were very expensive. I hate getting ripped off so I looked at the just the lights and at first they were hard to find but eventually did and they are pretty cheap. So the more I read the more I wanted one so I built my own.

Had a few tries but this last configuration seems to work well. Installed it in the air box behind the filter, and it has direct light contact with the coils and the light also shines directly on the filter. I lined the inside of the air box with some shiny metal and so its fully reflective on the inside. So from the time the air comes into the unit through the filter to the time it hits the coils it is exposed to UV light. The light stays on 24/7 also so it means that it continues to clean the filter and  the coils face which is exposed to incoming air.

My first try worked, so I increased the wattage and put in two bulbs. This made a real difference, and I have left it like this since it seems to do what I want. I could go more but I feel I would more than likely I would have to step up the design that I did and not really sure if it would translate into better air.

What I noticed was the ac condensate drain does not get filled with the normal slime and stays clean, when switching from ac to heat there was not the usual smell of the first startup when the coils get hot and anything on them burns off. When you walk into the house there used to be a slight smell that is gone completely and it smells fresh. Cooking smells and normal house smells are gone quickly and dont come back either. No mold or mildew in the duct work or anywhere inside the ac unit. Less rust since less slime to keep things moist. The coils stay clean, like spotless clean and and so does the condensate drain. Clothes, and anything taken from the house smell fresher also. 
 
I like it and would do it on any house I live in and its one of those things you never  know how much you like it till you try it. I also have a whole house water filter and am considering putting a UV light in line to disinfect the water also. The results have been good enough with the ac system that I would consider this.

I will say some of the benefits are not immediate, it takes some time to stop mold and such since its not a one pass kill but it does not need to be either.  UV light does kill mold and viruses but it also stops replication of the mold by destroying its ability to reproduce and therefore it can take time. This is not for a clean room or anything that needs to be sterile, so one pass is not needed just something that will kill on successive passes and kill anything in the air and on the coils and the filters. It will kill virus and a better filter will help to stop viruses and the UV light shining on the filter it will kill them. Virus are 0.004 to 0.1 microns in size, which is about 100 times smaller than bacteria so it means that no filter would be 100 percent effective and any filter that effective would be restrictive of the air flow. But air flowing past the UV lights will be cleaned of these pretty effectively and if you want to have more effectiveness cleaning these particles you can up the intensity of the light. Air that passes within a couple of inches should be good enough to stop most of these air borne viruses and bacteria with the high air flow of the ac system. I have no complaints about mine and its not that high intensity.

A better filter, and a UV light will go a long way to making the house much more comfortable. In the article below if you read it you will notice that an overhead UV light kills viruses and the ones in the ac systems are much more intense including the ones that I installed.

Can UV Light Fight the Spread of Influenza?
https://www.cuimc.columbia.edu/news/can-uv-light-fight-spread-influenza

Robert, I am curious. How long has your UV set up been installed? Have you cleaned your fluorescent  bulbs yet? UV disinfection is being used in the waste water treatment field rather than chlorine disinfection.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.americanairandwater.com%2Fwater%2Fwastewater-uv.htm&psig=AOvVaw0GydFiqw7Y4yXmXpXIUR3C&ust=1587904953986000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCNi1yprNg-kCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD
Obviously these bulbs need cleaned more often. Interesting concept for HVAC systems. We are currently using a few UV cabinets to disinfect our masks at work.

[Robert]

Robert, I am curious. How long has your UV set up been installed? Have you cleaned your fluorescent  bulbs yet? UV disinfection is being used in the waste water treatment field rather than chlorine disinfection.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.americanairandwater.com%2Fwater%2Fwastewater-uv.htm&psig=AOvVaw0GydFiqw7Y4yXmXpXIUR3C&ust=1587904953986000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCNi1yprNg-kCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD
Obviously these bulbs need cleaned more often. Interesting concept for HVAC systems. We are currently using a few UV cabinets to disinfect our masks at work.

The cleaning of the bulbs is important but you do not have to stress over it. In the ac system although air does pass around them it is filtered by a MERV filter. So again bulbs dont get hot and its not contact with the bulbs that kills the virus or spores. Its the radiation given off by the light that kills them, like a tanning bed.

I have had this system up and running for about 4 years and change the bulbs every year. They are not really dirty either. They loose their UV ability after about a year so changing them is cheap and a good practice and when I take them out they really do not need cleaning.

In an interesting note since the UV light is on the inside of the ac unit and the filter blocks the light from the front of the air register that is in a room, but shows a slight blue glow when a new filter is installed. As the ac filter gets dirty you cannot see the light since the particles block the light, this makes the system have its own service indicator on it since when I cannot see the blue light its time to change the filter.

Many of the pools are switching to a UV system and using much less chemical to keep the pools clean and its an interesting read on these systems.

As for water I have the municipal water supply running to my house but have the whole house water filtration system down to .5 micron. It has made a difference in the feel of the water in showers and also in the clarity and taste of the water when drinking. A UV light a fairly cheap and easy add on my current water filtration system and filtering down to .5 micron removes most of the nasty stuff, but there are things still left in the water. I am not really sure if it would make a big difference but the only way to get better water would be a reverse osmosis system and that would not be for a whole house. Since if I put the UV light in the system and filer down to a half a micron anything else would be unnecessary.

Some clean rooms in hospitals will have UV lights as you walk into the room.

UV light is great for disinfection and sterilization, because if it does not kill outright it can kill by altering DNA in organisms making it impossible for them to reproduce.

[GiG]

I was on a conference call this morning from the home office with four I T types in India and we chatted briefly about the state of international affairs (dire as usual). There are a lot of threads in duder’s head and this one surfaced, so I axed my Indian compatriots if they were still working from home or were allowed to go out. They are confined. What is the weather there? 90s.
 
This is the extent of my highly scientific research regarding the weather in India and how it relates to this thread and the profilgation of Chinese  Cooties.

[Rams]

You can ask the question here.  I have used the forum to answer my questions when I was building my house and installing the HVAC system.  I got reliable (in hindsight) information.

https://hvac-talk.com/vbb/

Anyone with any knowledge of HVAC UV lighting?   

Rams

Can UV Light Fight the Spread of Influenza?
https://www.cuimc.columbia.edu/news/can-uv-light-fight-spread-influenza

Gentlemen,
Thank you, this is good info and helps.   

Rams

[Patrick]

Anyone with any knowledge of HVAC UV lighting?   

Rams

I have a UV light that I installed and made on my system and I am glad I did it. I wanted it for eliminating smells, mold, mildew, generally cleaning the air and keeping the ducts clean. But noticed like you found that the factory ones were very expensive. I hate getting ripped off so I looked at the just the lights and at first they were hard to find but eventually did and they are pretty cheap. So the more I read the more I wanted one so I built my own.

Had a few tries but this last configuration seems to work well. Installed it in the air box behind the filter, and it has direct light contact with the coils and the light also shines directly on the filter. I lined the inside of the air box with some shiny metal and so its fully reflective on the inside. So from the time the air comes into the unit through the filter to the time it hits the coils it is exposed to UV light. The light stays on 24/7 also so it means that it continues to clean the filter and  the coils face which is exposed to incoming air.

My first try worked, so I increased the wattage and put in two bulbs. This made a real difference, and I have left it like this since it seems to do what I want. I could go more but I feel I would more than likely I would have to step up the design that I did and not really sure if it would translate into better air.

What I noticed was the ac condensate drain does not get filled with the normal slime and stays clean, when switching from ac to heat there was not the usual smell of the first startup when the coils get hot and anything on them burns off. When you walk into the house there used to be a slight smell that is gone completely and it smells fresh. Cooking smells and normal house smells are gone quickly and dont come back either. No mold or mildew in the duct work or anywhere inside the ac unit. Less rust since less slime to keep things moist. The coils stay clean, like spotless clean and and so does the condensate drain. Clothes, and anything taken from the house smell fresher also. 
 
I like it and would do it on any house I live in and its one of those things you never  know how much you like it till you try it. I also have a whole house water filter and am considering putting a UV light in line to disinfect the water also. The results have been good enough with the ac system that I would consider this.

I will say some of the benefits are not immediate, it takes some time to stop mold and such since its not a one pass kill but it does not need to be either.  UV light does kill mold and viruses but it also stops replication of the mold by destroying its ability to reproduce and therefore it can take time. This is not for a clean room or anything that needs to be sterile, so one pass is not needed just something that will kill on successive passes and kill anything in the air and on the coils and the filters. It will kill virus and a better filter will help to stop viruses and the UV light shining on the filter it will kill them. Virus are 0.004 to 0.1 microns in size, which is about 100 times smaller than bacteria so it means that no filter would be 100 percent effective and any filter that effective would be restrictive of the air flow. But air flowing past the UV lights will be cleaned of these pretty effectively and if you want to have more effectiveness cleaning these particles you can up the intensity of the light. Air that passes within a couple of inches should be good enough to stop most of these air borne viruses and bacteria with the high air flow of the ac system. I have no complaints about mine and its not that high intensity.

A better filter, and a UV light will go a long way to making the house much more comfortable. In the article below if you read it you will notice that an overhead UV light kills viruses and the ones in the ac systems are much more intense including the ones that I installed.

Can UV Light Fight the Spread of Influenza?
https://www.cuimc.columbia.edu/news/can-uv-light-fight-spread-influenza

Hmm, this is interesting. So, you just lined the box, installed a couple light fixtures and screwed in a couple UV bulbs ? That sure sounds doable. What size bulbs are you using ? I'd like to reduce any chance of mold and other bad actors in the ducts [ JoAnn is quite bothered by even a slight amount of it].

[Robert]

Here are a couple of links for the bulbs, but yes that is pretty much what I did. Some of it is very expensive including the bulbs but you can find a reasonable priced one.

These bulbs are pretty much the ones I have now in 21 inch length I have 2 being twin tubes so you effetectivly have 4 bulbs.
https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/56446/AU-PLL55WTUV.html

I started with this unit tried one then made my own, call them this unit sells for around 150.00 at the time it was the cheapest unit I could find to experiment with. The box is nothing more than a base a fuse, ballast wires and of course the bulb and thats it. But it is well made and easy to install. This acually did make a difference.
https://www.americanairandwater.com/al/al_prod.htm

https://www.prolampsales.com/pages/germicidal-lamps

This link has a fairly good lamp
https://store.uvsolutionsforhome.com/category_s/1477.htm