Bike Running rough

[studlly 64]

Hi Everyone,
Hope this find you all well and Healthy. my 98 Valkyrie standard sat in the garage since summer of 2018. here are the issues:
1- the bike would not even start, end up draining the battery, jump start it with my car after multiple xxxxxx attempts it started very very rough, i thought the pitcoke was clogged, not knowing anything about vacuum line, I blow into it, I think I heard the screen fell inside of the tank, oops!!. opened the pitcoke (before I read the forum) put it together the wrong way, it leaked, I fixed it and ordered a K&L rebuild kit, waiting for it!
2- the bike starts very rough especially on low RPM.
3- drained the carbs, put a mini fennel in the  fuel line, run sea-foam, soaked it for 24 hrs x 3 times, every time I drain the carbs the liquid comes out greenish.
4- after reading the many posts here,(thanks to all that replied with some very helpful tips to other members) I run 1/2 a bottle of berryman B-12 with about two gallons of gas.
5- added a full bottle of tech-ron fuel system cleaner to a 2 gallon fresh gas.
6- added a full bottle of berryman B-12 with 3 gallons of premium gas, took it for a 30 mile ride, still rough would not go over 60 miles hr.
bike still runs very rough on low RPM. I would prefer not to-do the rebuild of the carbs, any tips, pics or videos on how to clean/open the carb bowls while still attached!
please see video toward the end!!

https://youtu.be/7eUQticyLs4
thank you

 
  

[dpcarson]

I think you are down to cleaning the jets or pulling the carbs completely.  It is possible to to remove the jets without taking t5eh carb banks completely out, but quite honestly, if I were going so far as to remove the tank in order to move the carbs enough to pull the bowls off and remove the jets, I would just remove the carbs completely.  

However, you can remove the bowl covers and then remove the jets,  Clean them really good and see if that helps.  Or, just continue to do what you are doing and be patient for the carbs to clear up.  could take a while.  If you do not break the carbs apart and pull them as a unit and just clean the jets and blow out all the ports, it really is not a difficult job at all.  Can be done in a single Saturday with a few beers.

Also see this is your first post.  welcome to the board.  Where are you located.  May be someone local that would be glad to give you a hand.

[studlly 64]

Thanks Dpcarson, I updated my location on my profile, passions it what I don't have, but I will give it a few more tanks load with additive and see what happens!!

[dpcarson]

Turn your petcock off and drain your float bowls with the drain screws, and then pull the drain hoses off your float bowl covers and get a can of berrymans carb cleaner with the flexible tube and stick in there and fill up the bowls with carb cleaner and just let it sit for about a hour and then drain it out and turn the gas back on and give her another try. 

other things you can do is pull the covers off and pull the diaghrams and needles out.  Make sure the needs are good and clean.  You can then shoot some carb cleaner down through the hole that the needle goes through.  Also clean off the needles when you remove them.  They will probably be gunky and green. 

You can also pull the idle valve screws and shoot some berry mans up in there.  Just make sure you keep notes on where those things were set when you started.  Start turning them in and count the number of quarter turns to get them to lightly seat.  That way when you put them back in you can seat the screws, and then back it out the correct number of turns to get it the same as where they were originally set.

This is another good Saturday afternoon of tinkering and beer drinking while working on the bike, which is a good day for me.  Hope you get it running again.  If not, do not be scared of pulling the carbs.  I will be glad to help along as much as possible.  just pulled from two walks I pulled out of storage after 5 years last month.  You learn tricks along the way that make it MUCH easier.  Particlularly that darn airbox.  It is really pretty easy when you jump in.  And, if you haven't de-smogged her yet, that is the perfect time to do it.  Gets rid of a whole lot of potential vacuum leak problems.

[studlly 64]

I will try that tomorrow, it's suppose to be a crappy day anyways, I will give her some berrymans carb cleaner!! thanks a lot for the tip!

[Ricky-D]

That greenish color is algae and fungi that grows in the ethanol (water) that remains as the fuel separates with the petroleum evaporating leaving (basically) water.

The best cleaning of algae and fungi is hot water and soap.

Seafoam, Berryman's, and Techron have limited success on badly contaminated fuel systems.

Myself, I don't use ethanol enriched gasoline in any of my vehicles, but if it was me with such a severe problem
as you recount, I think I'd remove the fuel tank and run hot soap water thru the remaining fuel lines and carburetors
until such time as I would feel confident enough that I had washed out all the crud.
I certainly would not attempt to blow out any orifices fearing that doing so would only compress and clog them worse, with the crud.

Naturally some precautions need to be employed to limit the possibility that water will get into the engine.

[rug_burn]

   Hey:  welcome to the forum.
    A couple years ago, I was where you are now.  Your carbs sound as badly gunked up as mine were;  gotta clean them, no way around it, and better to do it now, before any other effects come up. 

     I drove mine with every carb cleaner fuel additive I could find for a year or so, and nothing really helped much.   It got a little better, but that could have just been from running clean gas through it.  It was never conclusive.    I did succeed, with all those carb cleaners, in burning holes in my #3 and #4 cylinder vacuum lines, replaced since. 
   I was always worried I was going to burn a valve in the cylinders that were running lean, but it seems like it didn't happen.
 
    No doubt, pulling the carb rack for the first time is daunting.   
    You gotta pull off those two engine support brackets, ign. switch,  a couple coils, all that.   But once you get familiar with it, it doesn't seem all that bad.   
 
     I have to fault myself for trying to just do the minimal amount of cleaning, in order to avoid breaking apart the carb bank and having to re-sync the carbs.   I tried this with the result I had to pull them off again, and do the job right a second (or third) time, and re-sync vacuum and mixture after all.

   
   Keep us posted as to how it goes.   Do you have a service manual?   There's a diagram that shows where all the hoses go, which is indispensable.   I can send you a copy of it if you'd like-  message me.
   

[studlly 64]

started the bike pulled spark plugs one at a time, i found out that #1 & 3 are not firing. nothing happen when I pulled the wires from those 2.
 going to put some Berryman carb cleaner, as dpcarson suggested, and will see what happens. yes I do have the manual. if the carb cleaning method doesn't work, I probably going to tear her apart  .
is there a harm running the bike on 4 cylinders, I took her out for a 30 mile riding hoping that will clear things out with the B-12 in the tank!!
thanks guys for the warm welcomes, I appreciate it.

[h13man]

While you're dealing with fuel issues, replace the manifold tube o'ring's. Done mine today and 5 0f the 6 were leaking. They definitely looked like square rings.   I suggest lightly use wheel bearing on the o'rings including the groove and face surface and also lightly in the carb boot. Makes reinstalling easier and the grease helps hold them in the groove.

https://redeye.ecrater.com/p/2064055/intake-o-ring-kit-viton-gf

[dpcarson]

started the bike pulled spark plugs one at a time, i found out that #1 & 3 are not firing. nothing happen when I pulled the wires from those 2.
 going to put some Berryman carb cleaner, as dpcarson suggested, and will see what happens. yes I do have the manual. if the carb cleaning method doesn't work, I probably going to tear her apart  .
is there a harm running the bike on 4 cylinders, I took her out for a 30 mile riding hoping that will clear things out with the B-12 in the tank!!
thanks guys for the warm welcomes, I appreciate it.

If you can pinpoint those two, you might also want to check that the float valves are not stuck in place and not allowing fuel in the carb.  Drain the bowls to see if there is gas in the bowl.  shoot some berry mans in there and try to clean those out particularly.  Also, the fuel rail going to those carbs have small filters on them also.  Hopefully that is not clogged.  IF so, pulling the carbs is your only option.   No other way to get to that.

[studlly 64]

yes fuel does come out the drain bowls when I try to drain them.
 well I got hydro locked  , poured 3/4 of the Berryman carb cleaner through the vacuum chamber, took the diaphragm off and sprayed it through the needle hole, tried to drain the carb after 1 hr and 1/2, nothing came out, went to fire it up, Berryman cab cleaner came gashing through the mufflers, opened up the spark plugs and tried to turn the engine off more carb cleaner shot up in the air. got it running again but the #1 & #3 are still not functioning, I don't think the carb cleaner went into the carbs at all!
 any thoughts?
it looks like pulling the carbs is the way to go. what do I need besides the manifold tube O'rings?

[Hook#3287]

what do I need besides the manifold tube O'rings?

That all depends on what you find when you remove and open the carbs.

Some would rebuild all the carbs completely and some would just clean the slow jets.

If I was in your situation, I would replace the slow jets with new 35's or 38's.

I would check all the floats and probably swap out the float jets.

I'd confirm what RickyD stated and make sure the tank and all fuel feeder hoses are clean and not compromised.

I'd desmog her or replace all the hoses and vacuum caps.

I'd check and rebuild the petcock if needed.

New air filter, unless the one in her is good.

While waiting on parts, I'd adjust the valves and swap out the hydraulic fluids.

Also a good time to tighten the coolant hose clamps.

You haven't stated how long you've owned her and what your mech comfort level is.

[studlly 64]

what do I need besides the manifold tube O'rings?

That all depends on what you find when you remove and open the carbs.

Some would rebuild all the carbs completely and some would just clean the slow jets.

If I was in your situation, I would replace the slow jets with new 35's or 38's.

I would check all the floats and probably swap out the float jets.

I'd confirm what RickyD stated and make sure the tank and all fuel feeder hoses are clean and not compromised.

I'd desmog her or replace all the hoses and vacuum caps.

I'd check and rebuild the petcock if needed.

New air filter, unless the one in her is good.

While waiting on parts, I'd adjust the valves and swap out the hydraulic fluids.

Also a good time to tighten the coolant hose clamps.

You haven't stated how long you've owned her and what your mech comfort level is.

I had her since October 2012, it has 17000 miles, I fix all my own small engines carbs. I changed the front tire myself, it was not an easy task. my first bike was a shadow 600, I drilled the baffles and upgraded the jets myself. I'm pretty confident I can do the rebuild my self, I'm not good with different technical words, i.e adjust the valves!! I can do pretty much anything if I have a drawings or  videos!!
how do you adjust the valves!!

[studlly 64]

forgot to mention I watched all of D-Ray Smiths videos. thanks Ray 

[Hook#3287]

http://www.valkyrienorway.com/download.html

The link above is for the service manual, provided by Dag of Norway 

I'd get a hard copy, easier to work with.

In it you'll find the valve adjustment procedure.

If you've never done one, you might want to find someone that has, to help you out.  It could be a problem if not done correctly.  (Understatement!!)

As you'll find out, one of the most difficult sections of the carb removal, is dealing with the air box

[dpcarson]

forgot to mention I watched all of D-Ray Smiths videos. thanks Ray 

Just please DO NOT cut your idle valve screws like he does.  The bit that fits them is only about a buck and a half or less on amazon.  Get the kit from Redeye for all the gaskets.  He will also send them with instructions for where each o-ring and gasket goes.  You will have to buy the float bowl cover gaskets separate and the intake o-rings.  He also sends acetate dowels to put the carbs back together and I would personally not use them and just use the ones that are factory after cleaning them thoroughly.  Unless the jets are damaged you should be able to clean them and not need to replace them.  Definitely would replace the float valves though.  about 20 bucks for a set of K&L's on eBay.Might as well just get going on it.  Doesn't sound like you are going to have another option.

[studlly 64]

any one familiar with this kit, is there anything else I need for the rebuild? do I need all of it or can I clean what's in there?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ALL-BALLS-26-1629-Bike-Carburetor-Rebuild-Kit/153871203696?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D226054%26meid%3Dbc41a1e6117643c7a69ff79b57d3170a%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D9%26mehot%3Dpf%26sd%3D254541013852%26itm%3D153871203696%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv5PairwiseWeb%26brand%3DAll+Balls&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

[rug_burn]

I just bought Honda OEM carb rebuild gasket sets-  I think they were about $25 each IIRC, which is another option.

   One thing that's easy to do without removing the whole carb rack is to remove the top covers, diaphragms and needles ,  and clean the main needles and jets.
  
   The needles are best cleaned (at least in my case) by just scratching off the layer of varnish which had coated each needle, using just my thumbnail.  This is simple, and you won't damage them like this.   Also be aware there's an o-ring at the base of the needle carrier that you will need to replace, which is in those gasket sets.

   Then, I took a pin vise, and a .101" diameter drill, and supporting the weight of the vise and drill, very lightly ran it down through each main jet hole, and cleaned out any deposited gum or varnish.
  
    This will improve the top end performance, but does nothing for the low end of the range, which is governed by the idle jets and fine tuned by the mixture screws (IIRC, I admit it may not be quite that simple)

[studlly 64]

what are the parts that I need to rebuild the carb, is it just the o'rings!!

[dpcarson]

I would get a full set of o-rings, carb bowl gaskets, and intake o-rings, and I would do new float valves.  The jets can usually be cleaned.  If you have an ultrasonic that will work wonders on the jets and carb bodies, but a good carb cleaner and blowing out everything with an air compressor will work too.  Either way you want to clean it all out with the air compressor.  If you pull the carb bodies apart which I think you should, there are a few more parts you will want.  You can get most everything from Rich at his site here https://redeye.ecrater.com. His parts all come bagged individually with pictures and instructions for each part that make it pretty darn simple.  I didn't see the full rebuild kit on there which is about 99 bucks just now, but it has everything you need a a few things I don't use, but easier than piecing it all together. 

[studlly 64]

I will give him a call and see if he can get me the rebuild kit, now I just have to be brave and pull all of it out

[Ricky-D]

I will give him a call and see if he can get me the rebuild kit, now I just have to be brave and pull all of it out

Be smart and take a lot of pictures of all of the linkage and spring locations and how the lines run because you will need them when it comes time to put it all back together.

***

[studlly 64]

I will give him a call and see if he can get me the rebuild kit, now I just have to be brave and pull all of it out

Be smart and take a lot of pictures of all of the linkage and spring locations and how the lines run because you will need them when it comes time to put it all back together.

***

thanks Ricky-D I appreciate the tip!

[dpcarson]

I will give him a call and see if he can get me the rebuild kit, now I just have to be brave and pull all of it out

Be smart and take a lot of pictures of all of the linkage and spring locations and how the lines run because you will need them when it comes time to put it all back together.

***

AMEN Brother!

[studlly 64]

finally pulled the carbs, slow jets all clogged up.
 now having an issue lining up the the air box nipples with the top of the air intakes, after I put the carbs back, any suggestions will be greatly appreciate it!

[The emperor has no clothes]

finally pulled the carbs, slow jets all clogged up.
 now having an issue lining up the the air box nipples with the top of the air intakes, after I put the carbs back, any suggestions will be greatly appreciate it!

Something that works for me ; with the lid on the air box , put a 18"-24" 2x4 on top, use a ratchet strap over the whole thing to put pressure on it while you get the rubber intakes in correct position. Once they are all started on correctly you can ratchet it down to where you can install the bolts and hose clamps.

[rug_burn]

    As to getting all the air intake tubes snugged down in place over the carb intakes-   It's best just to be patient, and put them all on in turn.   They always need a little help because at least one or two jam and buckle rather than sliding over the carb intakes.

     Try using some mirrors and a good flashlight, and a mechanic's 'dental pick' type tool, and make sure they're all on right.   Once they are, the airbox will go down to where it belongs fairly easily, with a little wiggling.    I got one mirror that I cut out of a piece of broken mirror that's about 3/4" x 3" that's the best one for looking behind the carbs.

   Another thing that makes this job a lot easier is to put some silicone grease on both sides before assembling them... but don't use regular wheel bearing or white grease because these can attack the rubber if it's the wrong kind (EPDM rubber).   Paraffin would be okay.   Silicone grease is the best to have around for rubber assembly jobs, though, because  it's compatible with every kind of rubber.   Not everybody has that,  I know.

[studlly 64]

Man, did I miss that sound, she is back and running beautifully  , Didn't do anything else but cleaning the carbs, I'm wondering what will she will sound like if I sync the carbs!!
any thoughts on carb synchronizing, I don't have any gauges, will it be possible to do one at time with carb #3 if I get a couple of gauges!!

[1NorthRyder]

Best way is to find someone with a Digisync and do all six carbs at once. makes it pretty easy once your all set up.

[rug_burn]

Hey, Studlly:
     I ain't got no digi-sync either, but here's how I synch mine- 
   I just bought a vacuum gauge, dial type with a needle ($12), put a tee on it, with two nipples to go to some small 1/8" ID silicone tubing, both sides equal length. 
    THen run one of these to your #3 cylinder vac. nipple, run the other to the cylinder you're synching, and just pinch off one side or the other to read the #3 , or the other.     
   Synch all cylinders to the #3 cyl., because it's the one you can't adjust.   
   Actually works pretty good.

[studlly 64]

Hey, Studlly:
     I ain't got no digi-sync either, but here's how I synch mine- 
   I just bought a vacuum gauge, dial type with a needle ($12), put a tee on it, with two nipples to go to some small 1/8" ID silicone tubing, both sides equal length. 
    THen run one of these to your #3 cylinder vac. nipple, run the other to the cylinder you're synching, and just pinch off one side or the other to read the #3 , or the other.     
   Synch all cylinders to the #3 cyl., because it's the one you can't adjust.   
   Actually works pretty good.

thank you very much I will give that a try

[matt]

If you ever find yourself In Derry nh let me know I have a digi-sync

Matt

[studlly 64]

If you ever find yourself In Derry nh let me know I have a digi-sync

Matt

i will keep that in mind, thanks Matt