Another dilemma -SOLVED -

[larue]

Hi all. I’m sure this had been tackled before but here we go. 99 tourer won't start . All lights on, no crank , you hit the stater button and it’s silence. serviced  the starter switch no issues and the brass bumps bounce up when pushed down. Battery good. Checked ignition switch all intact. Kill switch on on position . neutral on, kickstand down. I did try jump start with car not running but no go. It only turns over when I jump it at the starter solenoid connection with screw driver! What should I look for now . Didn’t do any work to the bike prior to this. However it rained on for about an hour in driveway more than a week ago.
Thank you for your help
So I exhausted all suggestions regarding this issue and then went back and looked at the stater selonoid that’s exactly a year old and said let me borrow the one from my other Valk, made the swap and lo and behold it fired right up. I’m still confused as to how do I still have power / lights , horn and a good 30amp fuse on the selenoid with a failing unit. Usually the top connection is the one that burns and melts, not this time though .  Now what I swapped was just the bottom part of the selenoid not the top red cap. Thank you all

[Bighead]

Starter or off switch or kill switch. Reason I say this is if it turns over with a solonoid jumper it has a closed circuit somewhere.

[Daniel Meyer]

Try putting the stand up and pulling the clutch in...

[Bighead]

Try putting the stand up and pulling the clutch in...

Yes another possibility.

[larue]

I tried kickstand up and clutch in, still nothing but silence. Headlight always dims when hit the start button as it supposed to.

[Bighead]

I tried kickstand up and clutch in, still nothing but silence. Headlight always dims when hit the start button as it supposed to.

Switch.

[larue]

Bighead: Switch serviced today and the little brass bumps do bounce up n down. Battery connections are clean and tight. Also the ground cable on the frame is cleaned and tight.

[Bighead]

Sorry that is what I would suspect. I have had mine do the same as hit the start button and light goes out but nadda. Cycled the kill switch several time and it started. Could be wrong but that would be my focus.

[Steve K (IA)]

Have you checked the battery connections?  Are they clean and tight?

[Skinhead]

solenoid/connections?  30 amp Fuse on solenoid.

[Daniel Meyer]

Time to look at the plug/wires where they connect to the starter relay. I've heard of several that have corroded or melted in the early year bikes.

[h13man]

Hydrolock maybe?

[indybobm]

If all of the lights are on I would look at the kill switch. If no lights are on I would suspect corrosion at the red cap on the starter relay.

[Jims99]

I agree with kill switch. Sometimes cycling it on and off a few times may help. Also try pushing in on it as you hit the starter button, sometimes that helps with the connection. I had one that looked very clean and still didn’t function right. A good cleaning never hurts. Good luck

[rug_burn]

   If you look at the circuit in the manual, there are so many 'kill' switches in series, yeah, it makes it really hard to diagnose which is bad. 

     I'd just go through and eliminate them one by one:   The kill switch, clutch switch, kickstand switch, start switch (which was a problem with my bike, a long time ago) neutral switch, and don't forget the tilt or lay down switch hidden I know not where..

     The fact that it happened after being left out in the rain makes me want to take a real close look at the start switch, which is right there on top of everything, the first to get wet when it rains.

     You could rig up a 12 volt light or LED w/ resistor to a wire with a needle you could poke through the insulation on a wire, and a clip on the other end to ground.  Then work your way from the start switch on down to the solenoid to see where the continuity ends, and there will be your problem.   When you push the start switch, you should see 12 volts in the wire leading down to the starter, right?  The light should light.     If the light comes on, that switch is good, so you can go to the next

   On my start switch, I took it apart and found there were a couple pieces of plastic flashing that were protruding out from the side of this small plastic block which were preventing the spring loaded copper contact piece from touching the other two bars intermittently.   I took an exacto knife, and shaved them flush with the body like they should have been from the factory, and haven't had a problem with it since...
   
Good luck

[larue]

Have you checked the battery connections?  Are they clean and tight?

Yes

[The emperor has no clothes]

larue, I'm sure you have checked it already. But, just in case, how about the fuse on the starter relay ?

[larue]

solenoid/connections?  30 amp Fuse on solenoid.

It’s good.

[The emperor has no clothes]

solenoid/connections?  30 amp Fuse on solenoid.

It’s good.

I should have read thru all the responses. I think my next step would be to bypass (or switch out) the clutch switch, kickstand switch, kill switch, etc. one by one.

[gordonv]

Your 2nd thing to do, after checking all your safety items (kill switch/clutch lever/side stand/in neutral, etc?), is to JUMP START it from a known charged battery (notice not a running vehicle?).

Until that is done, don't start ANY service/repair work.

You show all signs of a working bike with a dead battery.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Your 2nd thing to do, after checking all your safety items (kill switch/clutch lever/side stand/in neutral, etc?), is to JUMP START it from a known charged battery (notice not a running vehicle?).

Until that is done, don't start ANY service/repair work.

You show all signs of a working bike with a dead battery.

If I understand correctly, he was able to start it by jumping the starter relay terminals.

[larue]

Your 2nd thing to do, after checking all your safety items (kill switch/clutch lever/side stand/in neutral, etc?), is to JUMP START it from a known charged battery (notice not a running vehicle?).

Until that is done, don't start ANY service/repair work.

You show all signs of a working bike with a dead battery.

I did try to jump start it using my car it’s a running car just not running when I hook it to the bikes battery .
As Rob mentioned the bike turns over trying to fire up when I jump it using a screwdriver at the starter solenoid terminals.

[gordonv]

As Rob mentioned the bike turns over trying to fire up when I jump it using a screwdriver at the starter solenoid terminals.

Ok, I missed that one reading the whole thread.

So you have a bike that will turn over when the solenoid is jumped, but will not turn over any other way?

So what stops the bike from turning over when you press the start button?

The clutch lever safety, if the bike is in gear. Listen for the click when pulled in.
The transmission in gear other than neutral. Roll the bike.
The kickstand down when in gear. Roll the bike.
The starter switch. The light is going out, but is the starter leads making contact? Follow the Shoptalk how-to clean.

I would check the cranking again. This time with spark plug lead off, and close to ground to look for the spark. Another set of eyes would help.

Call up a friend/call rider, someone to help out.  Oh, we can't do that right now. Maybe someone already there then.

[larue]

As Rob mentioned the bike turns over trying to fire up when I jump it using a screwdriver at the starter solenoid terminals.

Ok, I missed that one reading the whole thread.

So you have a bike that will turn over when the solenoid is jumped, but will not turn over any other way?

So what stops the bike from turning over when you press the start button?

The clutch lever safety, if the bike is in gear. Listen for the click when pulled in.
The transmission in gear other than neutral. Roll the bike.
The kickstand down when in gear. Roll the bike.
The starter switch. The light is going out, but is the starter leads making contact? Follow the Shoptalk how-to clean.

I would check the cranking again. This time with spark plug lead off, and close to ground to look for the spark. Another set of eyes would help.

Call up a friend/call rider, someone to help out.  Oh, we can't do that right now. Maybe someone already there then.

As stated above the starter switch wa taken apart and made sure the brass bumps voice up n down when pushed

[Steel cowboy]

Could the bank angle sensor, behind the center cover, have a play in this situation. I know you cycle the key to reset it, but if it’s bad...

[Daniel Meyer]

As stated above the starter switch wa taken apart and made sure the brass bumps voice up n down when pushed
[/quote]

The other surface...not the brass bumps but the things they rub on...occasionally melt "down" into the plastic. were they okay?

[Moonshot_1]

first off, I'm not a mechanic and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn express either. But my 2 cents.

In the past, when I've done the starter button maintenance, it is not uncommon for me to have 2 or even 3 attempts at it to get it right. If you are confident in your abilities in this regard and know you've done it right and proper, then there it is.

I, on the other hand, have no illusions about my mechanical abilities so 3rd time is usually the charm for me. The point is maybe have another crack at the starter button maintenance. Simple, cheap, and easy. 

[larue]

So I exhausted all suggestions regarding this issue and then went back and looked at the stater selonoid that’s exactly a year old and said let me borrow the one from my other Valk, made the swap and lo and behold it fired right up. I’m still confused as to how do I still have power / lights , horn and a good 30amp fuse on the selenoid with a failing unit. Usually the top connection is the one that burns and melts, not this time though .  Now what I swapped was just the bottom part of the selenoid not the top red cap. Thank you all

[The emperor has no clothes]

Glad to hear you got it figured out. Could you visually see anything wrong with it ?

[larue]

Glad to hear you got it figured out. Could you visually see anything wrong with it ?
[/quote
 Absolutely nothing visual but since I bought on amazon a year ago this may I figured it might be Chinese and just may be faulty from the get go

[RonW]

Usually the top connection is the one that burns and melts, not this time though .  Now what I swapped was just the bottom part of the selenoid not the top red cap.

The wire for the internal electromagnet might be severed. The two prongs that stick out of the starter relay are opposite ends of the same wire that forms the electromagnet coil (right pic). You might try testing the electromagnet's wire for continuity. If the wire is severed the electromagnet can't close the starter relay switch. If you apply current on the two prongs and hear a click sound than the switch is closing and obviously the coil wire is intact.

[Skinhead]

Glad to hear you got it figured out. Could you visually see anything wrong with it ?
[/quote
 Absolutely nothing visual but since I bought on amazon a year ago this may I figured it might be Chinese and just may be faulty from the get go

I bought a cheap one on Amazon that said it for the valk.  It is wired differently than the OEM relay and does not work.

[John Schmidt]

Years ago we used to have problems with starter solenoids that mounted on top of the starter motor. The two large external posts which you connected your cables to had contacts internally. When the internal "plunger" would smack against those poles on the inside the starter motor would run....the same as though you laid a screwdriver across those large posts. Over time(years), the plunger would flatten out the posts internally where it contacted them and eventually you had a solenoid that wouldn't cause the starter to run because the plunger no longer was making contact. You could go buy a new solenoid and it would cure the problem for about the same period of time it took the old one to fail. Or...take the solenoid apart, loosen the flattened posts and turn them 180 degrees, put it all back together and you were good for a bunch more years...and not out any money. You could do this because the plunger didn't smack the entire surface of the posts, it was usually round or oblong and only hit the inside area of those posts internally. By turning them around you exposed the plunger to new and unflattened surfaces again.

Yeah...I'm full of all kinds of useless info from days gone by.    However, that may well be part of the problem with Larue's bike but don't think you can take these apart now.

[RonW]

[the plunger] may well be part of the problem with Larue's bike

• but don't think you can take these apart now.

On the round relays, you can straighten the crimps and pull the can off the relay (red arrow). With square shaped relays, the plastic layer has to be removed to get to the crimp (I think).