final drive splines shot

[jrflyboyVP2]

the problem with a new gear set is special tools needed, and knowing the process to measure clearances so proper shims can be purchased and installed to provide proper gear lash in the final drive.  I assume a shop which rebuilds auto differentials could do it if they know the specs.  Has anyone here replaced there final drive gears themselves, or had a shop do it?

jr

[hubcapsc]

Has anyone here replaced there final drive gears themselves, or had a shop do it?

RickyD did it, maybe he'll chime in.

-Mike

[indybobm]

Logically. And the bearing's probably rounded off as well (another forum member's pic, below).

Unfortunately, those pictures are from the final drive from my 98 Tourer when I removed the rear wheel for the first time in 2012. The thrust washer was missing from it too. It did ruin the final drive splines along with the drive flange and rear wheel.  All that metal had to do somewhere and a lot of it went into the wheel bearing. Plan on replacing it too.

As for installing new gear set from Honda, note that item #14, O-Ring Holder must also be purchased. It does not come with the gear set and can be very difficult to remove from your old final drive.

[RonW]

Re: jrflyboyVP2, indy

As said that was indy's wheel and 5-star flange. I just saved the pics.

[Ricky-D]

Has anyone here replaced there final drive gears themselves, or had a shop do it?

RickyD did it, maybe he'll chime in.

-Mike

Yes, I did it with great success.

Went thru all the tooth meshing procedures and everything else necessary to get a long lasting set-up.

I still have a bunch of shims left over from going thru all the trial and error getting the correct tooth meshing profile.

Going forward. I've put on many tens of thousands of miles on it and it's still perfect.

I followed the procedure faithfully as outlined in the manual.

[Pluggy]

Hello Ricky.  Did you install a new set of gears?  We know those are sold as a set.  If the gears are built and selected as a matched set, we would figure less adjustment would be needed.

[Ricky-D]

Yes, I replaced the gears, both of them.

Thinking the gears would be manufactured as a set,

I can't imagine in what Honda world that would be the practice.

Most reasons for adjustment is the variations in the carrier casting.

***

[jrflyboyVP2]

Well looks like I am going to need a new wheel.  I pulled my rear wheel off yesterday and now after riding my Valk back from Tuttle Oklahoma there is a definite step worn in the wheel surface.  Also you can see how bad my splines are.  All my parts are on order but apparently the honda warehouse is backed up and its going to be at least a couple of weeks, so I have time to get a wheel from Ebay

[Ricky-D]

Easy to see the splines are shot, no kidding.

But, depending on a lot of things, I would not be too quick to give up on that wheel.

The star does not rotate against the wheel so that wear is from wobbling only.

It also looks like there is plenty of wheel casting there remaining to support the bearing.

Myself, I would look to do something to clean up the surface and make a washer like spacer
to take up the space and get distances back to "close to normal".

Probably use a combination of plastic thrust washers and steel or aluminum spacers.

Of course, this is me and in my frugality, I am always looking to save everything.

All, is never lost should be my motto. Resourcefulness should be my mantra.

***

[hubcapsc]

If you get an ebay wheel, remember that you have to match the wheel
to the rotor... Wheels started changing from the first kind to the second
kind with the introduction of Interstates...

-Mike

[gordonv]

If you get an ebay wheel, remember that you have to match the wheel
to the rotor... Wheels started changing from the first kind to the second
kind with the introduction of Interstates...

All rear wheels are the same. As hubcapsc mentioned, its to match the rotor to wheel.

I think the new ones, 01' ?, are clear coated. Might want to start with them.

I think you should still be looking at $150 max, and the might even have a use able tire on it.

It hasn't been mentioned in a while, but have you researched the rear bearing mod? I personally would go this way. 2x dual roller bearings, instead of 1 ea single/dual set.
Shoptalk
http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/5204_bearing_mod.pdf

[baird4444]

not wanting to thread rob but a question.....   I am getting ready to do mine as well, have GW ring gear out of the case and cleaned up. The splined tube diameter is larger than the diameter of the hole in the ring gear. I'm guessing I'll press the center out (down) and that is what is holding the splined tube in? there are actually 3 parts to the assembly  once pressed apart?
     I know someone said that it would be obvious but I just don't see it?
       thanx - Mike

[98valk]

not wanting to thread rob but a question.....   I am getting ready to do mine as well, have GW ring gear out of the case and cleaned up. The splined tube diameter is larger than the diameter of the hole in the ring gear. I'm guessing I'll press the center out (down) and that is what is holding the splined tube in? there are actually 3 parts to the assembly  once pressed apart?
     I know someone said that it would be obvious but I just don't see it?
       thanx - Mike

only two parts.

good info here
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,48990.0.html

[baird4444]

not wanting to thread rob but a question.....   I am getting ready to do mine as well, have GW ring gear out of the case and cleaned up. The splined tube diameter is larger than the diameter of the hole in the ring gear. I'm guessing I'll press the center out (down) and that is what is holding the splined tube in? there are actually 3 parts to the assembly  once pressed apart?
     I know someone said that it would be obvious but I just don't see it?
       thanx - Mike

only two parts.

good info here
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,48990.0.html

thanks for the link, read all but not any help. cool jig for the pinion cup removal!!
   I went back out and stared at it for a while,  it is pressed from the opposite side of the splines? If so I think I'm seeing it....

          - Mie

[Ricky-D]

The pinion cup is not pressed on the pinion shaft.

There is a nut threaded onto the shaft that retains the pinion cup.

***

[baird4444]

The pinion cup is not pressed on the pinion shaft.

There is a nut threaded onto the shaft that retains the pinion cup.

***

thank you, I think I've seen some of your posts on this. I am not doing pinion cup....
just trying to confirm that the spline piece presses out from the bottom or gear tooth side...

[baird4444]

Pressed out...
     pressed in!! test fitted back together without the wave washer on the bottom and
all good. reassembled WITH wave washer and just a touch do slack; not even a 16th play....
is this a problem; already sealed and torqued and settin on the bench.
      - Mike

[Ricky-D]

Pressed out...
     pressed in!! test fitted back together without the wave washer on the bottom and
all good. reassembled WITH wave washer and just a touch do slack; not even a 16th play....
is this a problem; already sealed and torqued and settin on the bench.
      - Mike

If you are indicating play between the drive gears,

that is an unacceptable condition.

[Chrisj CMA]

Pressed out...
     pressed in!! test fitted back together without the wave washer on the bottom and
all good. reassembled WITH wave washer and just a touch do slack; not even a 16th play....
is this a problem; already sealed and torqued and settin on the bench.
      - Mike

I have a couple low mileage final drives. By turning them by the pinion cup there is a tiny bit of “play”. Rotating it back and forth you hear a tick tick when the gears become engaged. Both units have the same exact amount of this play so I take it as normal. Hope that helps

PS. These drives have no oil in them. Not sure if the results would be the same when filled

[baird4444]

Pressed out...
     pressed in!! test fitted back together without the wave washer on the bottom and
all good. reassembled WITH wave washer and just a touch do slack; not even a 16th play....
is this a problem; already sealed and torqued and settin on the bench.
      - Mike

If you are indicating play between the drive gears,
that is an unacceptable condition.

I was afraid of that....   ok, I do know that the spline shaft was pushed in just a hair farther than the original. Since the wave washer rests on what is sticking out the underside then it stands to reason that I need to have it pressed out just enough?

[Ricky-D]

Pressed out...
     pressed in!! test fitted back together without the wave washer on the bottom and
all good. reassembled WITH wave washer and just a touch do slack; not even a 16th play....
is this a problem; already sealed and torqued and settin on the bench.
      - Mike

If you are indicating play between the drive gears,
that is an unacceptable condition.

I was afraid of that....   ok, I do know that the spline shaft was pushed in just a hair farther than the original. Since the wave washer rests on what is sticking out the underside then it stands to reason that I need to have it pressed out just enough?

I should add that interference is also not acceptable.

[pancho]

I also had the thrust washer missing when I got my bike and did the press off spine job with replacement coming from a 1500GW final drive. My wheel was also damaged and I bought a replacement from pinwall and used it for a couple of years with MC tires. When I wanted to go to a car tire, I looked at my original wheel and after some measuring, decided to use it for the car tire with with three nylon thrust washers after cleaning up the surface. I have used that wheel for 40K + miles now with no problems. Just pulled it today to do a tire job and everything looks good. Still using the same three thrust washers.

[baird4444]

Got it!!  took it back to the guy with the press and pushed out to where it was just barely through, BAMM. I am surprised that I am the first to have this problem here and I would suggest to those in the future to take a close measurement from the bottom of the tube to the flat of the gear and try to match this when pressing back together.
   OR
as I sit here I realize that the flat of the spline piece rests on the wave washer and then the bottom bearing, a fixed location. the distance it is pushed in or out sets the location of the the tube? But why did it make the difference on play in the gears?
   All I know is that what I did fixed the slop in the gears and 3:30 AM  isn't a good time to be re-engineering or trying to sort it out.
  I want to thank everyone for the help and support, This place is AWESOME!!
            - Mike

[indybobm]

One thing that I have found is that you need to use the ring gear bearing and spacer (between the bearing and ring gear) from the Valkyrie Final Drive and not the GW FD. The spacers (item 19 on the fiche) from the GW tend to be thicker and result in too little backlash. This part comes in various thickness to adjust backlash. The spline hub is pressed in until it stops. I do not think that you should have pressed it back out a little. The wavy washer presses against the spline hub not the ring gear.

[Ricky-D]

The wavy washer presses against the spline hub not the ring gear.

No, that is not correct.

The "wavy" washer is designed to act like a spring in that it provides resistance, pushing the ring gear,
back up against the shim that is variable thickness.

This is a part of the process used to obtain correct tooth engagement of the ring and pinion gear.

[indybobm]

The wave washer is against the end end of the spline hub that has been pressed through the ring gear. It bears against the machined part of the spline hub that extends through the ring gear.
Also notice that the spline portion os the hub extends past the ring gear and is not flush with it.

[Ricky-D]

Yeah, you're correct and I was not.

I went out and looked at my old parts and stuff and I see where the splined hub has a shoulder to which the ring gear is intended to be bottomed out on.

That notwithstanding, adjusting the point to which the ring gear is seated (or not) is not the proper procedure to achieve the proper tooth mesh profile.

The correct procedure is spelled out very clearly in the shop manual.