Torque or not

[larue]

What parts on the valkyrie are a must torque and what can you get away with just a snug. Referring here to axle bolts and calipers ,fork pinch  bolts ,rotors mainly. Thank you

[Chrisj CMA]

For the above mentioned items. The rear axle bolt. The rest you can go by feel if you have the feel.

[The emperor has no clothes]

For the above mentioned items. The rear axle bolt. The rest you can go by feel if you have the feel.

+1 rear axle and front axle are the only items I use a torque wrench on. (There would be much more were I to tear down the engine)

[RonW]

Rotor bolts.

If memory serves they're Torque-to-Yield (TTY) single use and shouldn't be even used twice.

[F6Dave]

One I'm always extra careful with is the final drive filler.  There aren't many threads and it looks like it would be easy to strip.

[98valk]

Rotor bolts.

If memory serves they're Torque-to-Yield (TTY) single use and shouldn't be even used twice.

nope, just need the correct honda thread locker on caliper and rotor bolts to re-use.

The Valkyrie doesn't have any TTY bolts.

[98valk]

What parts on the valkyrie are a must torque and what can you get away with just a snug. Referring here to axle bolts and calipers ,fork pinch  bolts ,rotors mainly. Thank you

always torque those bolts with the require correct Honda thread locker whose colors are different than loc-tite.  honda red for rotor bolts is actually a high temp medium strength locker.

anyplace the book calls for torquing the bolts do it.  The book also has a maintenance requirement to check and re-torque as required many different bolts.

pgs 1-13/16  and

pg 3-19    NUTS, BOLTS, FASTENERS
Check that all chassis nuts and bolts are tightened to their
correct torque values (page 1-1 5).
Check that all cotter pins, safety clips, hose clamps and cable
stays are in place and properly secured.

[Valker]

Rotor bolts.

If memory serves they're Torque-to-Yield (TTY) single use and shouldn't be even used twice.

I used a torque wrench on a used bolt, done carefully, and one stripped. It is nearly impossible to get out of the wheel then. I always use new bolts now.

[Warlock]

I torque axle nut, fork pinch bolts (dealing with aluminum threads ) triple tree pinch bolts. Steering bearing nut also. I am a retired chief mechanic from offshore and if I was caught tightening something without a torque wrench it could cost me my job. But after so many years they put a torque value so people will not strip the bolts out. And also if you add any kind of lube to a bolt or nut that is not stated for lube torque you need to take 25% off the torque value. Some people add lube to sparks plugs and some don't. I know NGK recommends no lube added to them. Adding lube to a 12 lbs torque value and the torque is set with a dry torque you can strip out the threads on your head. I'm kinda anal on this, but hey that is just the way I operate.
David

[larue]

Great input as always . Thank you

[Bighead]

I Torque em all to mother Hondas specs. Why not only takes a couple extra minutes.

[Chrisj CMA]

I agree torque values are important. However, the book values are for new parts, perfect threads etc.  I think what’s just as important as looking up torque specs for every nut and bolt is having two things.

One, an understanding of what the specific fastener does and therefore how important exact torque is.

Two, an accurate feel for what say 20 ft lbs feels like as opposed to say 50 ft lbs

A perfect example is spark plugs. I know by feel what a spark plug tightness is. I don’t need a torque wrench for spark plugs. I know from doing so many what axle pinch bolts feel like when they are tight. Same with header nuts.

When precise torque is necessary it’s also best to clean the parts chase the threads with a tap and try to create like new conditions.  This is hardly ever needed outside of engine work.

The rear axle has a lot going on. I prefer to make sure it’s a bit over 80ft lbs with a torque wrench. But if one is not available. I have done it enough to make it close by feel. It’s not crucial that it is set at 81 ft lbs. I probably quit at more like 85 just because I use a bar type and 85 is easier to hit than 81

There is a time and place for both the torque wrench and accurate feel. Both are necessary

[CoreyP]

As far as I'm concerned axle bolts and pinch bolts. As long as the wheels don't fall off you really don't have a problem.  I have torque wenches so I tend to do most things by factory spec. I'm not anal about it but in the case of the exhaust bolts I was surprised how low of a torque they need. If I didn't look it up I probably would snap those off.  With a compression washer and all, I have no idea why Honda made them the way they are?

You need to watch out for different materials, AL is easy to strip out threads. That equals PIA. 

[LB]

As far as I'm concerned axle bolts and pinch bolts. As long as the wheels don't fall off you really don't have a problem.  I have torque wenches so I tend to do most things by factory spec. I'm not anal about it but in the case of the exhaust bolts I was surprised how low of a torque they need. If I didn't look it up I probably would snap those off.  With a compression washer and all, I have no idea why Honda made them the way they are?

You need to watch out for different materials, AL is easy to strip out threads. That equals PIA. 

Because the studs are a tapered step down in diameter type version. I started to replace them with full size studs until I realized it was impossible to put a nut on them due to them being too close to the manifolds. It appears they designed the manifolds first and attaching them was an afterthought. Cheaper to use a stepped down stud than redesign the manifold.

[Chrisj CMA]

As far as I'm concerned axle bolts and pinch bolts. As long as the wheels don't fall off you really don't have a problem.  I have torque wenches so I tend to do most things by factory spec. I'm not anal about it but in the case of the exhaust bolts I was surprised how low of a torque they need. If I didn't look it up I probably would snap those off.  With a compression washer and all, I have no idea why Honda made them the way they are?

You need to watch out for different materials, AL is easy to strip out threads. That equals PIA. 

The rear axle on the Valkyrie is doing a lot that you don’t see. There are 7 or 8 pieces, steel on steel mated up consisting of spacers and bearings and such that need to stay firmly mated up. That torque line also maintains proper final drive alignment. That axle nut tightened to 81 ft lbs (or a tad more wont hurt) is way more important than the 67 ft lbs for the front

[h13man]

As to the mentioned of the use of Loctite and I myself I use heat to free Loctited items, I done a little research. What prompted this was the mention of high heat variety sooo...


222 - Purple - Low strength thread locker, designed for precision metal fasteners under
3/4". Protect threads from rust and corrosion. Removable with hand tools. Temp range -
65 to 300 degrees F. Cure Speed 20 min. Full 24 hrs.

242 - Blue - Medium strength thread locker for fasteners up to 3/4". Cures reliably even
on stainless steel. Tolerant of oil and other contamination. Protects threads from rust and
corrosion. Parts can be disassembled with hand tools. Temp range -65 to 300 degrees F.
Cure speed 15 min. Full 24 hrs.

262 - Red - Permanent strength thread locker for fasteners up to 3/4". Designed for
extreme environmental/chemical conditions. Especially useful for holding tight Grade 5
and 8 fasteners. Protects threads from rust and corrosion. Localized heating and hand
tools required for disassembly. Temp range -65 to 300 degrees F. Cure speed 30 min.
Full 24 hrs.

272 - Red - Hi-temp/hi-strength formula. Suited for temperatures up to 450 degrees F.
Fast cure on most surfaces including "as received" fasteners. Recommended for bolts up
to 1 1/2" in diameter. Heat and hand tools required for disassembly. Temp range -65 to
450 degrees F. Cure speed 60 min. Full 24 hrs.

277 - Red - High strength for locking fasteners up to 1 1/2". Prevents fasteners from
loosening due to shock, heat or vibration . Protects threads from rust and corrosion.
Removable with heat and hand tools. Temp range -65 to 300 degrees F. Cure speed 60
min. Full 24 hrs.

290 - Green - Medium strength thread locker for pre-assembled bolts up to 1/2".
Penetrates threads by capillary action: simplifies preventive maintenance. Secures set
screws and other assemblies after settings are completed. Used to seal welds and porous
metal parts. Protects threads from rust and corrosion. Temp range -65 to 300 degrees F.
Cure speed 10 min. Full 24 hrs.

[indybobm]

If you do not think that the bolts are ' torque to yield', then do a little test. Take either the rotor bolts or the bolts for the rear wheel damper plate and do the following:

1. Measure the length of the bolt with a digital caliper
2. Install the bolt, without thread lock, and torque to the stated amount.
3. Remove the bolt and measure again with the calipers.

You will find that each time, the bolt has become longer. You will also notice that the diameter of the threaded area has become thinner as the bolt stretches. Eventually, you will not be able to torque the bolt to the stated torque without the bolt failing.

I did this test on the damper plate bolts and the rear rotor bolts when I replaced the final drive on my bike.  I had some bolts stretch well over .050" over the original length. The thinning of the middle threaded area was very noticeable.

[98valk]

If you do not think that the bolts are ' torque to yield', then do a little test. Take either the rotor bolts or the bolts for the rear wheel damper plate and do the following:

1. Measure the length of the bolt with a digital caliper
2. Install the bolt, without thread lock, and torque to the stated amount.
3. Remove the bolt and measure again with the calipers.

You will find that each time, the bolt has become longer. You will also notice that the diameter of the threaded area has become thinner as the bolt stretches. Eventually, you will not be able to torque the bolt to the stated torque without the bolt failing.

I did this test on the damper plate bolts and the rear rotor bolts when I replaced the final drive on my bike.  I had some bolts stretch well over .050" over the original length. The thinning of the middle threaded area was very noticeable.

IMHO
sounds like all u did was torque them into or past the yield zone.  when was the last time your torque wrench was calibrated?  esp. if it was a clicker style.
If the rotor bolts were torque to yield then they would have already been elongated in the threaded area upon first removal from factory install.
I have not seen this when I removed my bolts for the first time.

https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2001/02/threaded-fasteners-torque-to-yield-and-torque-to-angle/

[98valk]

As to the mentioned of the use of Loctite and I myself I use heat to free Loctited items, I done a little research. What prompted this was the mention of high heat variety sooo...


222 - Purple - Low strength thread locker, designed for precision metal fasteners under
3/4". Protect threads from rust and corrosion. Removable with hand tools. Temp range -
65 to 300 degrees F. Cure Speed 20 min. Full 24 hrs.

242 - Blue - Medium strength thread locker for fasteners up to 3/4". Cures reliably even
on stainless steel. Tolerant of oil and other contamination. Protects threads from rust and
corrosion. Parts can be disassembled with hand tools. Temp range -65 to 300 degrees F.
Cure speed 15 min. Full 24 hrs.

262 - Red - Permanent strength thread locker for fasteners up to 3/4". Designed for
extreme environmental/chemical conditions. Especially useful for holding tight Grade 5
and 8 fasteners. Protects threads from rust and corrosion. Localized heating and hand
tools required for disassembly. Temp range -65 to 300 degrees F. Cure speed 30 min.
Full 24 hrs.

272 - Red - Hi-temp/hi-strength formula. Suited for temperatures up to 450 degrees F.
Fast cure on most surfaces including "as received" fasteners. Recommended for bolts up
to 1 1/2" in diameter. Heat and hand tools required for disassembly. Temp range -65 to
450 degrees F. Cure speed 60 min. Full 24 hrs.

277 - Red - High strength for locking fasteners up to 1 1/2". Prevents fasteners from
loosening due to shock, heat or vibration . Protects threads from rust and corrosion.
Removable with heat and hand tools. Temp range -65 to 300 degrees F. Cure speed 60
min. Full 24 hrs.

290 - Green - Medium strength thread locker for pre-assembled bolts up to 1/2".
Penetrates threads by capillary action: simplifies preventive maintenance. Secures set
screws and other assemblies after settings are completed. Used to seal welds and porous
metal parts. Protects threads from rust and corrosion. Temp range -65 to 300 degrees F.
Cure speed 10 min. Full 24 hrs.

I used the Honda products which actually are less cost than Loctite on many parts sites.

http://prohondaoil.com/maintenance/thread-lock/

Hondalock 1 – Low-strength, blue colored threadlock for frequently removed and/or low-torque fasteners. Protects against corrosion and wear. Resists vibration, moisture and most chemicals.

Hondalock 2 – Medium-strength, orange-colored threadlock for medium- torque fasteners.

Hondalock 2HT – High-temperature, red-colored threadlock for medium-torque fasteners in high-temperature applications such as cylinder head exhaust studs.

Hondalock 3 – High-strength, green colored threadlock for semipermanent and or high-torque fasteners. Helps retain gears, bearings and pulleys to their shafts.

[F6Dave]

Where/how do you calibrate a torque wrench?

[indybobm]

IMHO
sounds like all u did was torque them into or past the yield zone.  

We are only talking about 14 ftIb. Any way you look at it, the bolts stretch, they become weaker each time they are torqueduntil they finally snap at 14 lbft.

[98valk]

IMHO
sounds like all u did was torque them into or past the yield zone.  

We are only talking about 14 ftIb. Any way you look at it, the bolts stretch, they become weaker each time they are torqueduntil they finally snap at 14 lbft.

only if the bolt is over-torqued, stretched past its yield point,  it will not return to its original length and should be replaced. If a bolt is narrowed at any point along its thread it is damaged and should be replaced.
your really taxing my memory of my strength and materials class from decades ago.

this is a good explanation even though its more about wheel studs.
https://m.roadkillcustoms.com/how-to-properly-torque-lug-nuts-lug-bolts/
The second example is a bolt that is torqued to specification. There is a slight amount of stretch, but not enough to change metal/alloy properties of the bolt and it returns back to it’s original shape and is ready for for retorquing.

[CoreyP]

The rear axle on the Valkyrie is doing a lot that you don’t see. There are 7 or 8 pieces, steel on steel mated up consisting of spacers and bearings and such that need to stay firmly mated up. That torque line also maintains proper final drive alignment. That axle nut tightened to 81 ft lbs (or a tad more wont hurt) is way more important than the 67 ft lbs for the front

I torqued that to spec for sure. Even checked it after a a couple of hundred miles to make sure it was torqued to spec.

[CoreyP]

Where/how do you calibrate a torque wrench?

Here's a simple way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fybLYL0WfFY

Here's another. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaqBA-xSGbc

[98valk]

I use bar/beam type torque wrenches. easy to re-calibrate and normally never goes out of calibration.
I have a 250lb dial type wrench that needs to be calibrated, so I use a digital torque adapter and a bench vise to calibrate it.
The digital torque adapter comes in handy when there is just no room for the larger wrenches.