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Jersey mike
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« on: May 29, 2020, 04:31:57 PM » |
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https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6933246/Derek-Chauvin-Complaint.pdfMurder 3rd degree: Max sentence 25 years Manslaughter 2nd degree: Max sentence 10 years AND/OR $20,000 fine “The defendant had his knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total. Two minutes and 53 seconds of this was after Mr. Floyd was non-responsive. Police are trained that this type of restraint with a subject in a prone position is inherently dangerous.“ Can you imagine a jury not convicting on the Murder charge and he gets off with a $20,000 fine? Wow the stuff would really hit the fan then.
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shadowsoftime
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« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2020, 04:42:23 PM » |
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B S, should be first degree murder and death penalty and the other 3 should be second degree and life.
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Serk
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« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2020, 04:51:23 PM » |
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B S, should be first degree murder and death penalty and the other 3 should be second degree and life.
Reading the definitions of in Minnesota law, 3rd degree murder is the closest match. And the official autopsy also does not support 1st degree murder: "The autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation. Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease." In short, 1st degree requires premeditation and intent, neither of which really apply here. 2nd degree has intent to kill but without premeditation, which also doesn't really apply here. 3rd degree murder does fit here, IMHO "Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years." Don't get me wrong, the cop done very very bad, but if they try to prosecute beyond the details of the case, they risk getting a not guilty, so far better to pick a charge that's more likely to get a conviction and meets the details of the case. |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away...  IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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shadowsoftime
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« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2020, 04:56:58 PM » |
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He told them he could not breath, 1st degree murder.
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2020, 05:01:12 PM » |
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He told them he could not breath, 1st degree murder.
1st degree requires proving premeditation. Very hard in this case, unless they find a diary where he confesses wanting to kill a suspect by strangulation. I'm with Serk on this one. |
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2020, 05:05:03 PM » |
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What should happen is what should always happen.
There should be an investigation, an impartial evaluation of the evidence, a referral to the grand jury, and if charges are brought, a fair prosecution.
Guilty or not, he deserves a fair trial, and a change of venue may be necessary.
I have seen this knee on the neck (or face) thing many times on the Cops shows, and it's always disturbing. If you (or several) have to fight a guy to the ground, OK. But after he's subdued and cuffed, lighten up.
This certainly appears to be excessive use of force.
Looters should be told to disperse or they'll be shot on sight. If they don't disperse, shoot them (go ahead and aim low, at first, they'll disperse.)
If I owned a Walmart or other business, if it was destroyed by rioters, I'd never open another in that city or town again. Let rioters/looters take a bus to the next town for groceries.
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« Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 05:18:28 PM by Jess from VA »
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shadowsoftime
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« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2020, 05:06:45 PM » |
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He told them he could not breath, 1st degree murder.
1st degree requires proving premeditation. Very hard in this case, unless they find a diary where he confesses wanting to kill a suspect by strangulation. I'm with Serk on this one. He continued to choke after Floyd said could not breath, choked him till he died. 1st degree. |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2020, 05:11:21 PM » |
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He told them he could not breath, 1st degree murder.
1st degree requires proving premeditation. Very hard in this case, unless they find a diary where he confesses wanting to kill a suspect by strangulation. I'm with Serk on this one. He continued to choke after Floyd said could not breath, choked him till he died. 1st degree. That only proves indifference, not premeditation. Don't get me wrong, I think he should be put away for a long time. He did the future of law enforcement no favors. I'd like to see his cohorts get 10 years for not stopping him. They probably won't serve a year though. |
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shadowsoftime
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« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2020, 05:11:27 PM » |
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Yes, Jess, shoot the looters, this is not protest it is opportunity to steal and burn, disgusting
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Serk
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« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2020, 05:11:43 PM » |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away... IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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Serk
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« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2020, 05:15:44 PM » |
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Just pointing this out too - a large part of the reason George Zimmerman is a free man today is because the Florida prosecutors reached too far and tried him on 2nd degree murder charges instead of 3rd degree or manslaughter.
They'd have been far more likely to get a conviction if they'd pursued those lesser charges.
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away... IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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shadowsoftime
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« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2020, 05:24:24 PM » |
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The cop ignored Floyd's pleases and continued to choke him for almost 9 minutes.
First degree murder,.
What if this was a family member.
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shadowsoftime
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« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2020, 05:30:10 PM » |
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If you are choking me and I say I can't breath, at that point it becomes premeditated if you do not stop.
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Bighead
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« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2020, 05:33:38 PM » |
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If you are choking me and I say I can't breath, at that point it becomes premeditated if you do not stop.
Well if you can say you cant breath you actually are breathing cant make sound without breathing. Probably stopped blood supply from coratid arteries and made him pass out then he couldn’t breath. Not siding with LEO just pointing this out. The officer was wrong should have put him in the back of a patrol car and took him to booking. |
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1997 Bumble Bee
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Jersey mike
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« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2020, 05:44:03 PM » |
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My thoughts on a couple items regarding this.
First will be the fact of the knee on the neck. Almost all that officer’s weight is on his left knee, which was on the neck. The officer’s right foot was not carrying any weight at all and just used for some balance.
Second, the fact Mr. Floyd was able to speak and was clearly understood when speaking. It has been my understanding that a person who can speak is not choking. As was mentioned the officer said to Mr. Floyd “You’re talking fine” which I’ve heard many, many times by officers that a suspect is able to breathe if they are able to speak. This is taught to them in their training. They are taught a suspect will say anything for softer treatment. This will be brought up in court and used as a defense, I’d guarantee it.
There are other things with this also, the other police officers on the scene. 1 holding his feet and the other with his hands on his back, keeping his chest to the ground.
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shadowsoftime
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« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2020, 05:46:31 PM » |
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If you are choking me and I say I can't breath, at that point it becomes premeditated if you do not stop.
Well if you can say you cant breath you actually are breathing cant make sound without breathing. Probably stopped blood supply from coratid arteries and made him pass out then he couldn’t breath. Not siding with LEO just pointing this out. The officer was wrong should have put him in the back of a patrol car and took him to booking. As a child I was choked one time and I could not breath and I said, I can't breath and the person stopped, so yes you can make a struggling plea. |
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shadowsoftime
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« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2020, 05:51:08 PM » |
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My thoughts on a couple items regarding this.
First will be the fact of the knee on the neck. Almost all that officer’s weight is on his left knee, which was on the neck. The officer’s right foot was not carrying any weight at all and just used for some balance.
Second, the fact Mr. Floyd was able to speak and was clearly understood when speaking. It has been my understanding that a person who can speak is not choking. As was mentioned the officer said to Mr. Floyd “You’re talking fine” which I’ve heard many, many times by officers that a suspect is able to breathe if they are able to speak. This is taught to them in their training. They are taught a suspect will say anything for softer treatment. This will be brought up in court and used as a defense, I’d guarantee it.
There are other things with this also, the other police officers on the scene. 1 holding his feet and the other with his hands on his back, keeping his chest to the ground.
Well, he died didn't he. |
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Patrick
Member
Posts: 15433
VRCC 4474
Largo Florida
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« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2020, 05:54:59 PM » |
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The family is pushing for a first degree charge, this is not a first degree case.
The officer involved has 10 previous incidents of excessive force, I believe one resulted in a death.
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Valker
Member
Posts: 3000
Wahoo!!!!
Texas Panhandle
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« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2020, 06:02:33 PM » |
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The LAW says it's not first degree regardless of what a person thinks or feels it should be.
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I ride a motorcycle because nothing transports me as quickly from where I am to who I am.
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shadowsoftime
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« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2020, 06:17:24 PM » |
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The family is pushing for a first degree charge, this is not a first degree case.
The officer involved has 10 previous incidents of excessive force, I believe one resulted in a death.
I think it is 15 and the others have 5 each complaints. |
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shadowsoftime
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« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2020, 06:22:09 PM » |
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The LAW says it's not first degree regardless of what a person thinks or feels it should be.
We will have to wait to see, charges may be changed. Need to see cop cam for the whole story, it might or might not be what it seems. |
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scooperhsd
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« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2020, 06:29:19 PM » |
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I would defer to the prosecutor about the correct charges to lay on him. From what we've seen in the media - he was killed - just what are the correct charges.
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Jersey mike
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« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2020, 06:42:16 PM » |
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My thoughts on a couple items regarding this.
First will be the fact of the knee on the neck. Almost all that officer’s weight is on his left knee, which was on the neck. The officer’s right foot was not carrying any weight at all and just used for some balance.
Second, the fact Mr. Floyd was able to speak and was clearly understood when speaking. It has been my understanding that a person who can speak is not choking. As was mentioned the officer said to Mr. Floyd “You’re talking fine” which I’ve heard many, many times by officers that a suspect is able to breathe if they are able to speak. This is taught to them in their training. They are taught a suspect will say anything for softer treatment. This will be brought up in court and used as a defense, I’d guarantee it.
There are other things with this also, the other police officers on the scene. 1 holding his feet and the other with his hands on his back, keeping his chest to the ground.
Well, he died didn't he. Yes he did die, but according to the preliminary report he did not die from asphyxiation. |
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shadowsoftime
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« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2020, 06:47:50 PM » |
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My thoughts on a couple items regarding this.
First will be the fact of the knee on the neck. Almost all that officer’s weight is on his left knee, which was on the neck. The officer’s right foot was not carrying any weight at all and just used for some balance.
Second, the fact Mr. Floyd was able to speak and was clearly understood when speaking. It has been my understanding that a person who can speak is not choking. As was mentioned the officer said to Mr. Floyd “You’re talking fine” which I’ve heard many, many times by officers that a suspect is able to breathe if they are able to speak. This is taught to them in their training. They are taught a suspect will say anything for softer treatment. This will be brought up in court and used as a defense, I’d guarantee it.
There are other things with this also, the other police officers on the scene. 1 holding his feet and the other with his hands on his back, keeping his chest to the ground.
Well, he died didn't he. Yes he did die, but according to the preliminary report he did not die from asphyxiation. Then how could they charge the cop with murder. |
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Serk
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« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2020, 06:54:41 PM » |
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Dude, I get it, you want what by all appearances is a dirty cop to pay, and pay dearly.
But the reality of our justice system is it takes ONE out of 12 jurors to disagree with a 1st degree murder charge and he walks scot free.....
But there's a FAR greater chance of all 12 jurors agreeing to a 3rd degree murder charge, and he at least sees the inside of a jail for a while.....
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away... IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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shadowsoftime
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« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2020, 07:20:45 PM » |
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Dude, I get it, you want what by all appearances is a dirty cop to pay, and pay dearly.
But the reality of our justice system is it takes ONE out of 12 jurors to disagree with a 1st degree murder charge and he walks scot free.....
But there's a FAR greater chance of all 12 jurors agreeing to a 3rd degree murder charge, and he at least sees the inside of a jail for a while.....
Dude, I think worth a chance and if by chance gets off then the FED'S can charge him. |
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Serk
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« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2020, 07:22:53 PM » |
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Dude, I get it, you want what by all appearances is a dirty cop to pay, and pay dearly.
But the reality of our justice system is it takes ONE out of 12 jurors to disagree with a 1st degree murder charge and he walks scot free.....
But there's a FAR greater chance of all 12 jurors agreeing to a 3rd degree murder charge, and he at least sees the inside of a jail for a while.....
Dude, I think worth a chance and if by chance gets off then the FED'S can charge him. |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away... IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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shadowsoftime
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« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2020, 07:26:54 PM » |
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Dude, I get it, you want what by all appearances is a dirty cop to pay, and pay dearly.
But the reality of our justice system is it takes ONE out of 12 jurors to disagree with a 1st degree murder charge and he walks scot free.....
But there's a FAR greater chance of all 12 jurors agreeing to a 3rd degree murder charge, and he at least sees the inside of a jail for a while.....
Dude, I think worth a chance and if by chance gets off then the FED'S can charge him. Wrong a FED charge is not double jeopardy, civil rights. ZIMMERMAN. |
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Bighead
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« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2020, 07:39:12 PM » |
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If you are choking me and I say I can't breath, at that point it becomes premeditated if you do not stop.
Well if you can say you cant breath you actually are breathing cant make sound without breathing. Probably stopped blood supply from coratid arteries and made him pass out then he couldn’t breath. Not siding with LEO just pointing this out. The officer was wrong should have put him in the back of a patrol car and took him to booking. As a child I was choked one time and I could not breath and I said, I can't breath and the person stopped, so yes you can make a struggling plea. You could have been being choked but you could breathe. If you cant move air you cant speak. Sorry. |
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1997 Bumble Bee
1999 Interstate (sold)
2016 Wing
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Serk
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« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2020, 07:44:55 PM » |
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Dude, I get it, you want what by all appearances is a dirty cop to pay, and pay dearly.
But the reality of our justice system is it takes ONE out of 12 jurors to disagree with a 1st degree murder charge and he walks scot free.....
But there's a FAR greater chance of all 12 jurors agreeing to a 3rd degree murder charge, and he at least sees the inside of a jail for a while.....
Dude, I think worth a chance and if by chance gets off then the FED'S can charge him. Wrong a FED charge is not double jeopardy, civil rights. ZIMMERMAN. As I said..... Zimmerman is a free man today. |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away... IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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shadowsoftime
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« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2020, 08:00:18 PM » |
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Dude, I get it, you want what by all appearances is a dirty cop to pay, and pay dearly.
But the reality of our justice system is it takes ONE out of 12 jurors to disagree with a 1st degree murder charge and he walks scot free.....
But there's a FAR greater chance of all 12 jurors agreeing to a 3rd degree murder charge, and he at least sees the inside of a jail for a while.....
Dude, I think worth a chance and if by chance gets off then the FED'S can charge him. Wrong a FED charge is not double jeopardy, civil rights. ZIMMERMAN. As I said..... Zimmerman is a free man today. Holder decided not to prosecute him, this is totally different. so yes, if found not guilty, DOJ can prosecute murder under civil rights. |
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Jersey mike
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« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2020, 08:01:27 PM » |
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My thoughts on a couple items regarding this.
First will be the fact of the knee on the neck. Almost all that officer’s weight is on his left knee, which was on the neck. The officer’s right foot was not carrying any weight at all and just used for some balance.
Second, the fact Mr. Floyd was able to speak and was clearly understood when speaking. It has been my understanding that a person who can speak is not choking. As was mentioned the officer said to Mr. Floyd “You’re talking fine” which I’ve heard many, many times by officers that a suspect is able to breathe if they are able to speak. This is taught to them in their training. They are taught a suspect will say anything for softer treatment. This will be brought up in court and used as a defense, I’d guarantee it.
There are other things with this also, the other police officers on the scene. 1 holding his feet and the other with his hands on his back, keeping his chest to the ground.
Well, he died didn't he. Yes he did die, but according to the preliminary report he did not die from asphyxiation. Then how could they charge the cop with murder. Did you read the murder charge? “...caused the death of Floyd by perpetuating an act eminently dangerous to others and envincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life.” So basically his act of putting his knee on the man’s neck for the amount of time he did, along with continuing to kneel on the neck (for 2 minutes) after Floyd stopped moving and the other officer said he did not get a pulse, is evidence of a depraved mind without regard for human life. Basically the charge is helping the arrested officer a good defense to go toward his state of mind or his train of thought. He will probably claim the knee was a taught form of suppressing or restraining an uncooperative suspect. |
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old2soon
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« Reply #32 on: May 29, 2020, 08:04:50 PM » |
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I H O preexisting medical conditions of the deceased should play no role what so ever in the final decision. The vid prior to l e o kneeling on the deceased neck showed a man already cuffed and not resisting. But as I was Not there and video recording I'm only going by what I observed on the t v. I Hope and I PRAY the jury has their collective head(s) screwed on straight.
Maybe-Not maybe-make it happen-bring the water cannons rubber bullets tear gas and Arrest the rioters. Charge every cursed one of the the highest possible charge and fine and even if only a couple charges do in fact stick it may-or not-slow the idjits down a tad. And after personal experience I'd rather be cuffed with metal cuffs than zip tie cuffed should I ever again be offered an option. I wasn't the 2nd time. First time was a training course before standing Shore Patrol in the P I.
What ever the verdict should it go to trial lotsa folks ain't a gonna be happy. Y'all can make book on dat. Again I M H O this travesty should have NEVER taken place. But Sadly as we are aware It did take place, RIDE SAFE.
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Today is the tommorow you worried about yesterday. If at first you don't succeed screw it-save it for nite check. 1964 1968 U S Navy. Two cruises off Nam.
VRCCDS0240 2012 GL1800 Gold Wing Motor Trike conversion
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Bighead
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« Reply #33 on: May 29, 2020, 08:07:26 PM » |
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according to the preliminary report he did not die from asphyxiation.
If this report doesn’t change. They cant charge with 1st degree. |
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shadowsoftime
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« Reply #34 on: May 29, 2020, 08:09:12 PM » |
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My thoughts on a couple items regarding this.
First will be the fact of the knee on the neck. Almost all that officer’s weight is on his left knee, which was on the neck. The officer’s right foot was not carrying any weight at all and just used for some balance.
Second, the fact Mr. Floyd was able to speak and was clearly understood when speaking. It has been my understanding that a person who can speak is not choking. As was mentioned the officer said to Mr. Floyd “You’re talking fine” which I’ve heard many, many times by officers that a suspect is able to breathe if they are able to speak. This is taught to them in their training. They are taught a suspect will say anything for softer treatment. This will be brought up in court and used as a defense, I’d guarantee it.
There are other things with this also, the other police officers on the scene. 1 holding his feet and the other with his hands on his back, keeping his chest to the ground.
Well, he died didn't he. Yes he did die, but according to the preliminary report he did not die from asphyxiation. Then how could they charge the cop with murder. Did you read the murder charge? “...caused the death of Floyd by perpetuating an act eminently dangerous to others and envincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life.” So basically his act of putting his knee on the man’s neck for the amount of time he did, along with continuing to kneel on the neck (for 2 minutes) after Floyd stopped moving and the other officer said he did not get a pulse, is evidence of a depraved mind without regard for human life. Basically the charge is helping the arrested officer a good defense to go toward his state of mind or his train of thought. He will probably claim the knee was a taught form of suppressing or restraining an uncooperative suspect. Unless there is more video, he was cuffed with 2 more cops on him and I cannot see where he was uncooperative. Have you seen a vid that shows different. |
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Bighead
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« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2020, 08:12:43 PM » |
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What happened before everyone had a phone with a camera? And you do know vidieo is easily edited. Just sayin. We were not there so we (as in you and me ) have zero influence on what will come of this.
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2016 Wing
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shadowsoftime
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« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2020, 08:13:21 PM » |
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according to the preliminary report he did not die from asphyxiation.
If this report doesn’t change. They cant charge with 1st degree. Regardless,the cops murdered this man. |
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shadowsoftime
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« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2020, 08:16:19 PM » |
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What happened before everyone had a phone with a camera? And you do know vidieo is easily edited. Just sayin. We were not there so we (as in you and me ) have zero influence on what will come of this.
There has to be cops shoulder cams. |
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Bighead
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« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2020, 08:18:41 PM » |
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What happened before everyone had a phone with a camera? And you do know vidieo is easily edited. Just sayin. We were not there so we (as in you and me ) have zero influence on what will come of this.
There has to be cops shoulder cams. Agreed but until that is show without editing no one will know. You did notice the WITHOUT editing. Just depends on who gets that footage first. |
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shadowsoftime
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« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2020, 08:24:05 PM » |
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What happened before everyone had a phone with a camera? And you do know vidieo is easily edited. Just sayin. We were not there so we (as in you and me ) have zero influence on what will come of this.
There has to be cops shoulder cams. Agreed but until that is show without editing no one will know. You did notice the WITHOUT editing. Just depends on who gets that footage first. If edited, can't match the time stamp, so what happened to the missing time will be ask. |
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