Replacing sub-panel

[scooperhsd]

Any electricians here ?

Ok - so  MIL's house has a subpanel in the workshop that I want to replace - need more circuits in the kitchen upstairs. I know there is 240V mains going to it, and I'm fairly confident that there is at least a ground wire back to the main panel. What I'm not so sure about is a neutral - I see there are 120V circuits in the subpanel, but  - are they connected to ground, or do they have a neutral to the main panel ?  If there is no neutral wire, can I connect the neutral bar to the ground bar in the new panel ? If I knew who manufactured a Sears Roebuck panel I would do some exploring to see if a 30 amp 240 circuit was still in use and replace the breaker with what I need. I know there are some twin 120V breakers (two 120V circuits in the space of a single full size breaker, same amp rating) in the panel.

BTW, the new circuits SHOULD have ground as well as neutral (early 1950's house - lots of 2 wire 120V circuits without grounds). One of the new circuits will be for a gas range to replace an electric range (and no - the 240v to 120V plug in conversion adapter won't work - it has a Hot-Hot Ground plug - no neutral)

TIA for the assistance .

[Robert]

 Many old houses on 240 used three wire on a 240 since it was a balanced load or it was just a service panel. But it is not the way to do it, since code will require running a neutral and ground. But it all starts with what do you have coming into the panel. If you pull the cover off you may find it has three wire with a ground. But no I would not just run the neutral and ground together.


Fully explained in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlVhS7wSZtw

[bill-jr]

Good things to know are wire size ran to this “sub-panel” and or breaker its being fed from
How many amps already being used and and how much more you need to add ?!?
You need a hot and neutral to make 120v work its the ground that people like to forget,
 its your protection . .
1st point of entry the neutrals and grounds are connected after that they need to be separated . . .
You kinda lost me on the whole 30 amp sears and would just change to what you need ? ? ?
Also open it up Take pics pics are gonna help. . .

[scooperhsd]

Been talking on a Home improvement forum about this. Pretty much have it all figured out by now.

Currently, there is a 40 amp 240V feeder to the subpanel. I'm going to be replacing the breaker and wiring to support 50 amp. The insides of the current panel are a mess - Neutrals and grounds sharing the same bar. After I get the panel replaced (and the current circuits inside fixed), I'm installing 3 appliance 120v 20amp circuits (don't worry - it won't be using anything near that most of the time). I'm planning on being able to replace the current electric range with a gas one.