Valkyrie refuses to start

[teadream42]

Hello gentlemen,
I have a problem and it is beyond me. Hoping you can help. My bike was doing great, then a week ago she decided to not start. The starter will turn the engine but the engine will not start. If I push start by rolling her down hill in second or third gear she will start and will run great. After a short trip I can restart it with the starter button. However, after she's sitting for a couple of hours she will just make a whining sound and will not start. These are the things I have done so far. Put in new spark plugs, check the petcock- it's working and I can smell gasoline. Put a new battery in , I even plugged in a lithium batteries starter.  I have cleaned  the starter switch last year. I have the kick stand up and the clutch in when I'm trying to start the bike.
Help please.

[Hook#3287]

Whining sound?

From where and is the motor turning over while making it?

[Jersey]

Sounds like you're slowly eliminating things in each of the areas.  On first take, this seems like an electrical issue. With electrical is important to not assume anything.  Verify all connections, terminals (inside the connectors), and wiring.

Electrical:
 - Verify spark occurring at each plug
 - Check for intermittent electrical connections.  Closely examine each of the critical plugs, terminals, and wires for oxidized, loose, frayed connections.


I hope that helps.

[Chrisj CMA]

New battery, but did it get a full charge?  Sounds like classic dying battery. Check output voltage of the alternator too

[Valker]

With all "odd electrical issues" I assume a bad ground. How's the ground connection where the battery negative cable attaches to the engine/frame?

[John Schmidt]

New battery...give it a good charge first, then don't use the clutch handle...just put it in neutral with the kickstand up or down, makes no difference in neutral. Does your kickstand light work in conjunction with the position of the stand? Off when up...on when down.

[Madmike]

Hello gentlemen,
I have a problem and it is beyond me. Hoping you can help. My bike was doing great, then a week ago she decided to not start. The starter will turn the engine but the engine will not start. If I push start by rolling her down hill in second or third gear she will start and will run great. After a short trip I can restart it with the starter button. However, after she's sitting for a couple of hours she will just make a whining sound and will not start. These are the things I have done so far. Put in new spark plugs, check the petcock- it's working and I can smell gasoline. Put a new battery in , I even plugged in a lithium batteries starter.  I have cleaned  the starter switch last year. I have the kick stand up and the clutch in when I'm trying to start the bike.
Help please.

Sounds like low battery voltage.  Wonder if you have a short to ground discharging the battery when it sits??  You can sometimes see if there is a parasitic load on the battery by seeing if there is a spark between the a battery cable and the post when you connect the two - best to use the ground cable to try and you may need to be in a dark place to see the spark.  If you have a radio with clock etc. you can expect to see something.  You can eliminate circuits via the plug in fuses to help isolate which circuit the load is on.

It is strange that it would not start with the portable battery pack though.  Did you have the ground attached to the battery or to the frame??  

If it will roll start it sounds like everything else is there, it has fuel and spark.

What is the charging voltage??  You may have a diode gone in the charge system which would give low charge voltage and will also drain the battery.

[teadream42]

Hello  thank you for the help.
The whining is from the starter trying to get the engine to start . Today I tried to connect the negative from the battery to the frame, no changes. Clean the starter relay, no changes. What confused me is that when I pushed start to get her going, she will run . Then she will starts with the start button. I also tried to start her in gear (to see if it engaged the motor ) and it does, she jerk forward. I will try to check on the sparks tonight.

[teadream42]

Just tested the plugs and no spark to any of the 6 plugs.
Again help 

[gordonv]

It sounds like a classic dying battery, charge low. Wont start, but after bump starting, it charges the battery enough to start up again if used soon.

But the portable power pack wont start the bike. Will it start something else? Maybe try your known working car battery to jump start the bike.

We know the bike runs fine, after it starts. So it's either running off the alt or the battery. This is a big mystery. Back to basics, one at a time, but you've already done most of it.


Have you done anything to the bike before this?

[teadream42]

Hi gordonv. The portable pack will start my tundra truck. I order a new starter relay and try it in a couple of days. What weird to me is no spark to any of the plugs and yet she will run when rolling start.

[Ramie]

It could be your battery is low enough that when you engage the starter it draws down the battery enough to diminish your spark, when you push it it's not drawing down the battery from the load of the starter motor.

[teadream42]

Hooked up to the truck battery (not running). Still no spark.

[Dusty]

 I put a new battery in one of my bikes. A couple of days later it quit running. It turned out to be the terminals of the new battery had oxidized and not been sanded before installation to expose fresh lead for a good connection. After cleaning terminals everything was good. Good luck with your troubleshooting.

Dusty

[The emperor has no clothes]

With all "odd electrical issues" I assume a bad ground. How's the ground connection where the battery negative cable attaches to the engine/frame?

I would listen to this suggestion.

[Jersey]

With all "odd electrical issues" I assume a bad ground. How's the ground connection where the battery negative cable attaches to the engine/frame?

I would listen to this suggestion.

Agreed. Don't assume any of the connections are electrically sound.  Pull the frame/engine/battery ground and positive leads. Recondition them with fine grain sandpaper, slight bit dielectric, and reconnect.

[txtriathlete]

Hello gentlemen,
I have a problem and it is beyond me. Hoping you can help. My bike was doing great, then a week ago she decided to not start. The starter will turn the engine but the engine will not start. If I push start by rolling her down hill in second or third gear she will start and will run great. After a short trip I can restart it with the starter button. However, after she's sitting for a couple of hours she will just make a whining sound and will not start. These are the things I have done so far. Put in new spark plugs, check the petcock- it's working and I can smell gasoline. Put a new battery in , I even plugged in a lithium batteries starter.  I have cleaned  the starter switch last year. I have the kick stand up and the clutch in when I'm trying to start the bike.
Help please.

When you get it figured out would you please post back here to let us know what it was? There are several of these posts with electrical issues where the smart folks make suggestions but rarely will one post the final resolution that fixed the issue.

For my .02 - if I had taken the starter switch apart, I would go back in there to look for a connection or frayed wire, especially if it was running before. I have a knack for having to fix things twice...

[RonW]

For my .02 - if I had taken the starter switch apart, I would go back in there to look for a connection or frayed wire, especially if it was running before. I have a knack for having to fix things twice...

I don't think it's start button related. teadream (OP) stated the starter will turn the engine over, er, the start button is energizing the starter motor. The start button circuit is okay. And agreed, people should post back the solution to a problem.

I have a problem and it is beyond me.

• The starter will turn the engine but the engine will not start.

[gordonv]

After a short trip I can restart it with the starter button.

However, after she's sitting for a couple of hours she will just make a whining sound and will not start. These are the things I have done so far. Put in new spark plugs, check the petcock- it's working and I can smell gasoline. Put a new battery in , I even plugged in a lithium batteries starter.  I have cleaned  the starter switch last year. I have the kick stand up and the clutch in when I'm trying to start the bike.

It's the first statement, that after running, it can be restarted.

So the starter switch is working.

The rest of the post above, after sitting, can't start. Sounds like a faulty battery. But the rest, starter back, and now the jump from the working (good battery) truck, would say starter switch again. But the first statement again, it will start.

This is like one of those Yes-No flow charts, and their circular logic sending you in a loop, but the problem not being fix. This is one of those. Each 1 item sends you somewhere, but another item crosses it off.


Have you tried jumping the starter relay terminals? (You have inspected it for good wires).

[teadream42]

gordonv. Will try that tomorrow.

[Jims99]

I would check voltage while cranking engine. Check at battery and then check from somewhere after fuses and to engine block ground. Battery may be testing good but a connection after that could be bad. If you get to much voltage drop, the coils will not give you a strong enough spark. Definitely sounds electrical to me.

[gordonv]

Yes, but he's used both a battery pack and a known working battery, which would be connected to the leads not the battery, and no joy.

Yet after bump starting, driving, then trying to restart, it will from the starter switch. Let it sit, and no joy. Every single things has a check, and the check or something else says it's fine.

I haven't even considered the safety switches, side stand/clutch/kill, because he can start the bike. It's like it's a brain teaser, we're missing something, but I can't think what.

I was going to say the starter switch. It's been cleaned, but does it work every time, so was it cleaned properly? But it works when the bike has been running. Everything seems to be a problem, but works.

[Ricky-D]

Heck, he doesn't even say if the engine is turning over.

He's just saying the starter motor is making a whirring sound.

Sounds to me that the starter clutches in the starter motor are jammed up.

This is a rare occurrence but it does happen occasionally.

I suggest to take a big heavy rubber mallet and give the starter motor  a good one while holding the starter button down.

That may free up the rollers, but if not, then remove the starter motor and take it apart and clean the roller clutch assembly.

[Bighead]

Heck, he doesn't even say if the engine is turning over.

He's just saying the starter motor is making a whirring sound.

Sounds to me that the starter clutches in the starter motor are jammed up.

This is a rare occurrence but it does happen occasionally.

I suggest to take a big heavy rubber mallet and give the starter motor  a good one while holding the starter button down.

That may free up the rollers, but if not, then remove the starter motor and take it apart and clean the roller clutch assembly.

Go reread the first post It says the starter is turning the engine but wont start.

[gordonv]

The starter will turn the engine but the engine will not start.

<snip>

If I push start by rolling her down hill in second or third gear she will start and will run great. After a short trip I can restart it with the starter button.

Even if he missed it, the second comment about being able to start from the start switch after the bike has been running, shows the starter does work. Again, a mystery.

[teadream42]

I put a ground cable from the ground terminal to the frame. No change. I opened some of the plugs and I can feel the air being push out by the pistons. I tried this first because of the fear of the dreaded hydrolock. Buying a another battery will fully charge it .will see.

[gordonv]

I wouldn't spend money yet. You tried the truck battery and it didn't work, why would another MC battery be any different?

[Jersey]

It would be good if you can get it into a failed state and then go through each of the systems to see what works/doesn't work.

Get it when it's cold and won't run.
1. Check for good spark on one or two plugs
   IF NO SPARK:
   a.  UnPlug the ECM and reseat.  (This is to see if there's oxidation on the connectors.)
   b.  Check the pulse signals from the trigger wheel pickups.  (follow manual procedures)
 I had a similar issue and it was the pulse triggers and ECM both going bad.  Caused intermittent operations.  I had to replace both pickups and the ECM.

If good spark, next check the fuel system.  Are there indications that gas is making it to the sparkplugs?  See if the Petcock holds a vacuum (manual has procedures). Try using a hand vacuum pump to open the petcock and try starting.

Key thing is to work on the bike when it's in a failed state and then troubleshoot to see what's not working.  Break it down into the three systems Electrical, Fuel, Mechanical.  Plus, DO NOT ASSUME ANYTHING. Test and and verify each detailed thing is working.

[gordonv]

teadream42 you should add your location in your profile, and maybe ask for some local help. Like Jersey suggested, check each thing, but having parts you can swap and try is nice too, along with another mind for 2nd thoughts.

Plus, DO ASSUME ANYTHING. Test and and verify each detailed thing is working.

Don't assume anything.


Just because, do you know if the bike has any alterations? I'm thinking extra fuel filter, a quick release fuel line, something that might give trouble for fuel delivery. Maybe something electrical added.

[Big Rig]

Send it to bed without dinner....maybe it will come to its senses and start tomorrow. 

[Madmike]

Hello gentlemen,
I have a problem and it is beyond me. Hoping you can help. My bike was doing great, then a week ago she decided to not start. The starter will turn the engine but the engine will not start. If I push start by rolling her down hill in second or third gear she will start and will run great. After a short trip I can restart it with the starter button. However, after she's sitting for a couple of hours she will just make a whining sound and will not start. These are the things I have done so far. Put in new spark plugs, check the petcock- it's working and I can smell gasoline. Put a new battery in , I even plugged in a lithium batteries starter.  I have cleaned  the starter switch last year. I have the kick stand up and the clutch in when I'm trying to start the bike.
Help please.

Following Ricky-D suggestion below .........

Any chance that the starter motor itself is spinning (making the whining sound) but the engine isn't turning over??  The starter drives the engine through an over-running clutch ("spragg clutch").  These clutches purpose is to "release" the mechanical cnnection between the starter and engine once the engine fires and the speed of the engine exceeds the speed of the starter.

The drive is through a needle bearing (item 31) that can wear and cause problems.



If you have a Clymer manual the "starter clutch" is described in there (page 163 in mine).  You have to pull the back cover off the engine to access the drives for the starter and alternator which means the engine has to be out of the frame is the way I read it. 

You may be able to initially check it through the starter mount but may want to do this when the engine is warm simulate what you reporting now.

[Timbox]

    teadream42
I think that either the ECM or some kill switch, does this bike have a spark kill on the side stand?  If you are not getting spark on all 6 plugs, there is a central issue.  Until you get that taken care of don't worry about gas, or all the other things.

If you know the engine is turning over (as you have felt air coming out of the plug holes) then look to what would kill spark overall.  There has to be a wiring master here on the forum that knows this bike inside and out, maybe they will chime in. 

You can narrow things down by cleaning all the contacts of the connectors in the wiring harness.  A little flat tip screw driver to remove any rust of while chalky stuff that might be in there.  Before you start poking around, remove the NEG battery cable, don't want to blow fuse or hurt the ECU.

Just cleaning all the contacts might fix the issue.  Have you tested the coils yet?  Once again anything that helps the bike make spark should be tested until you have spark every time you hit the starter button.