How Bad did I mess up? Bent valve!

[Techmike]

I had a belt tensioner that was squealing at me.  I rebuilt them both.  I left the belts on and was careful not to move anything.  I have it back together and now it won't start?  What should I check first?  Could I have got it out if time?

[sandy]

Do you have a trigger wheel? If so, the clearance between the pickups and wheel is critical.

[Techmike]

No trigger wheel other than the stock one and I didn’t get near it or the pickups.

[Chrisj CMA]

Check the battery

[Techmike]

Battery is good.  Motor turns over but doesn’t start.

[f-Stop]

Alignment...the 'T1.2' mark on the Drive Pulley should line up with the Index mark on the crankcase and the 'UP' marks on the Driven Pulleys should be facing up and lined up with their Index marks on the crankcase.

-- Sometimes Valks will crank OK, but not start when a battery is weak...

-- Was everything running and starting OK (except the singing tensioners) before?

That's all I can think of at the moment...

Good Luck!   

[Chrisj CMA]

Battery is good.  Motor turns over but doesn’t start.

Perfect. Then jump it to your car because that’s exactly what a weak battery does on a Valkyrie

[Techmike]

Alignment...the 'T1.2' mark on the Drive Pulley should line up with the Index mark on the crankcase and the 'UP' marks on the Driven Pulleys should be facing up and lined up with their Index marks on the crankcase.

The marks don’t like up.  Do I just take the belts off and manually turn them?

[3W-lonerider]

yes but hopefully they did'nt jump more than 2 teeth or you may have bent valves.

[Techmike]

Oh, starts now but runs rough, how can I tell if I bent a valve?

[gordonv]

I would check the alignment again. Start with the basics. Follow the how-to closely.

What did you follow the first time?

[Madmike]

Oh, starts now but runs rough, how can I tell if I bent a valve?

Bent valve wont get a good seat seal and so will give you low compression, you may hear it in the exhaust if it is an exhaust valve.  You can do a quick compression test with your thumb if you don't have a hose and gauge.  Not precise but an indication if it exists or not.

[Techmike]

THanks for all of the help guys.  Between family and Church I didn't get to work on her over the weekend.  I'm goon try again this evening.

[Techmike]

OK...spent lunch time in the garage.  Tool the belts off,  Liked everything up with the marks as best I could (it's hard for me to see if things are lined up right.) Put the belts back on.  It starts and runs with the choke on but wants to race up to about 2500 rpms/  WHen I turn the choke off it slows down and dies.  I'm beginning wto wish I just put up with the squealing pully.

Any tips or tricks to help me get this right?  I'm following the manual from Honda.

[Chrisj CMA]

You have to get down low and look straight on. You can’t do anything else until you are sure the marks are straight

[3W-lonerider]

i'm with Chris on this. unless you get down and look straight at the cam pulleys and crank pulley your just guessing they are correct. 1 tooth off on these engines will make it not run properly. if you look straight at the front of the engine it will be quite apparent whether or not that it is or ain't in time.

[da prez]

Setting the timing belts is an easy job.   Take a breath and start over. Do it as if someone dropped a bike off. DO NOT ASSUME.  Re set and pull the plugs. Bar (turn) the engine over by hand from center two full revolutions.  There should be no excess resistance. The timing Mark's are there. DOUBLE CHECK THEM.

               da prez
 

[da prez]

Unless you are in witness protection,  post your location
 There is someone near by to help.

         da prez

[gordonv]

I'm just going to throw it out there, you need to look at the left pulley from the left of the front tire, and the right from the right side.

I followed this one from the GW GL1500.

https://goldwingdocs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9774

You only need to worry about the belt portion, not the removal of all the plastic. 

[Ramie]

OK...spent lunch time in the garage.  Tool the belts off,  Liked everything up with the marks as best I could (it's hard for me to see if things are lined up right.) Put the belts back on.  It starts and runs with the choke on but wants to race up to about 2500 rpms/  WHen I turn the choke off it slows down and dies.  I'm beginning wto wish I just put up with the squealing pully.

Any tips or tricks to help me get this right?  I'm following the manual from Honda.

Just throwing this out there, not sure if you have the marks correct or not but I will tell you my I/S starts with the choke on and I just have to lower the choke part way when the idle picks up until the engine warms up, so I don't think what your experiencing with the high idle has anything to do with your timing.

[jnicks01]

I just did my belts and tensioners for the first time.  This is what I used.  Lots of good info and steps in my opinion.  Maybe it will help when you start over.

https://832cb063-1f18-49cd-9010-2809e1f1b8a3.filesusr.com/ugd/aca642_79bda55163364ebf98e37961afb0030b.pdf

[Techmike]

Unless you are in witness protection,  post your location
 There is someone near by to help.

         da prez

I'm in Owensboro, KY.  Not in Witness Protection.....yet.    Mostly just embarrassed that I can't get such a simple thing right.  I've done a lot of work on cars and on other bikes (v-twin).

[Techmike]

I just did my belts and tensioners for the first time.  This is what I used.  Lots of good info and steps in my opinion.  Maybe it will help when you start over.

https://832cb063-1f18-49cd-9010-2809e1f1b8a3.filesusr.com/ugd/aca642_79bda55163364ebf98e37961afb0030b.pdf

I will definitely use this.  Just printed it out for my "Big book of valk stuff" that I'm going to keep in the garage.

[Techmike]

This biggest pain point for me is that the bike ran great before I started other than the squealing.  Now it doesn't squeal but runs like crap and I messed it up.  Definitely a confidence killer.  

I need to get a lift table...my fake knees and bad back are not happy with this rolling on the ground stuff.

I really appreciate everyone's help and input, this is a great board.

[jnicks01]

I just did my belts and tensioners for the first time.  This is what I used.  Lots of good info and steps in my opinion.  Maybe it will help when you start over.

https://832cb063-1f18-49cd-9010-2809e1f1b8a3.filesusr.com/ugd/aca642_79bda55163364ebf98e37961afb0030b.pdf

I will definitely use this.  Just printed it out for my "Big book of valk stuff" that I'm going to keep in the garage.

I find that website tech page to be about the best when it comes to step by step illustrated help.  To be honest, I saved that belt job for last because of intimidation.  Hell, the rear end/splines was less fearful.  But just take your time and triple check your marks and belt configuration.  You'll be just fine.

[Techmike]

I went at it again making sure everything was aligned properly.  It starts and run, but still not as well as before I started.  I think I must have bent a valve during my the initial attempt.  If I can't do this right, I'm sure not going to try to replace any valves myself. 

Can anyone recommend a good valkerie mechanic is west kentucky or southern Indiana?  I've never made such a mess of anything mechanical in my life.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I went at it again making sure everything was aligned properly.  It starts and run, but still not as well as before I started.  I think I must have bent a valve during my the initial attempt.  If I can't do this right, I'm sure not going to try to replace any valves myself. 

Can anyone recommend a good valkerie mechanic is west kentucky or southern Indiana?  I've never made such a mess of anything mechanical in my life.

We have a traveling mechanic BigBF. I'm not sure if he is near you, or coming your way. I think he does most of his scheduling on Facebook or by text. Hopefully someone, or Bill will chime in. (You wouldn't be the first one that bent a valve after changing belts)

[Rio Wil]

Run a compression check and prove or disprove the valve angle.

[Techmike]

Sorry for the delay in responding, my wife is recovering from heart surgery (ironically a valve replacement) so I haven't had much time to work on the bike.

I tested compression with my "el cheapo" amazon compression tester.

The results -
1 - 0psi
3-100psi
5-150psi
2-130psi
4-150psi
6-130psi

So it seems to me cylinder 1 is toast so the right side heat will need some work.  I hopy you guys can give me opinions or suggestions.

As I understand I have two options:

1. Take the right head off and send to to someone to do whatever necessary repairs.

2. Buy a used head from a running motor and put it on.  Would this work?

Money is a concern because we have a lot of medical bills right now.  Any input would be greatly appreciated. Suggestions for mechanics in my area or machineshops that can do the repairs or other options I haven't thought of.

I appreciate your help!

[The emperor has no clothes]

Sorry for the delay in responding, my wife is recovering from heart surgery (ironically a valve replacement) so I haven't had much time to work on the bike.

I tested compression with my "el cheapo" amazon compression tester.

The results -
1 - 0psi
3-100psi
5-150psi
2-130psi
4-150psi
6-130psi

So it seems to me cylinder 1 is toast so the right side heat will need some work.  I hopy you guys can give me opinions or suggestions.

As I understand I have two options:

1. Take the right head off and send to to someone to do whatever necessary repairs.

2. Buy a used head from a running motor and put it on.  Would this work?

Money is a concern because we have a lot of medical bills right now.  Any input would be greatly appreciated. Suggestions for mechanics in my area or machineshops that can do the repairs or other options I haven't thought of.

I appreciate your help!

If it's just a bent valve on #1, you or someone can fix it pretty easily. I'm suspect of #3 too. Option 2 is good as well. As long as you can confirm its good.

[JimC]

Get in touch with
"mad6gun"
he works on the Valks, and is in Indiana.
Send him a private message, or if he reads this I am sure he will contact you.

Jim

[6adan]

 A lift table will be the best tool you can buy to work on bikes.

[old2soon]

     mad6gun-Mark-up around Ft. Wayne In. bout 300 miles from you or vice versa. And he do Know the Fat Girls. As you've already deduced timing belt change out can and will go south quick in Not done Correctly. Changed my belts out couple years ago and before I hooked the battery back up and mashed the start button I turned er over a couple times by hand. 130 G total on the odometer and she will Still light up that car tire if I twist her tail hard nuff. Look at it this way-learning curve betta now and you should Not need another belt change fer awhile.  And as yer findin out lotsa folks here to help.  RIDE SAFE.

[Steven Bumpus]

Done it before myself.  Simple enough job to do, just have to have the tools to do it; valve spring compressor, lapping stick, lapping compound, etc.

[John Schmidt]

Sounds like you left all the spark plugs in during the replacement process. If so...first mistake...makes the cams want to rotate to the heel of the cam lobes. I made 2 wrenches of flat 3/4" wide flat stock, drilled and installed a bolt in the end and another just far enough down so it will fit into the open spaces on the cam wheels. Then when I put them in place prior to removing the belts, I zip tie them in place so nothing turns. You can also do the same thing with a couple box end wrenches and use them on the bolts in the end of the cam pulleys. I've done that in the past, just bought a couple cheapies, heated them so as to bend them in such a way they fit into place, then bungee or zip tie in place.

As for installing a new valve(s), you'll be able to tell if more than one has hit the top of the pistons on the right side by looking for strike marks on top of the piston. From the looks of the compression list, #1 & #3 are very suspect.

[RonW]

The valve guides probably got damaged too. Don't know a thing about replacing those though.

[Bagger John - #3785]

The valve guides probably got damaged too. Don't know a thing about replacing those though.

Done them more times than I care to count over the years on different bikes.

Per the Valkyrie service manual: Heat the head in an oven to 130-140 degrees C and freeze the guides in your freezer. Drive the old ones out and the new ones in one at a time using the specified tools. They will have to be reamed to final clearance. I'd call around to area performance shops, your local Honda dealer et al and see what they'd charge to R&R the guides and valves then lap the new ones. Maybe get in touch with Bob (Attic Rat) and see if he'll take the job on.

Another thing I'd do if I had the heads this far down is to replace all the valve seals. If these are done one at a time, you shouldn't need to worry about re-lapping any good valves.

General rules of thumb that I follow when changing belts on these engines:

Cylinder head covers come off, all valves are loosened and plugs are removed. When I was a budding young mechanic many years ago, Ma (RIP) would gift me on Christmas and birthday with specialty motorcycle and automotive tools. A couple of those gifts were a set of pliers and a positioner that are specifically designed to lock the cam pulleys of GL-series motors in place while performing belt maintenance. I set the motor's timing marks per the service manual, secure the pulley then perform belt R&R.

When belts are on and tensioners properly adjusted I turn the motor over by hand several times, watching the crankshaft and belt pulley marks very carefully for any signs of funny business. If all looks good I set clearances for all valves, re-check the motor through a couple manual revolutions then inspect, service and replace the plugs.

I try to time (no pun intended) a belt replacement to coincide with a required valve adjustment so all the steps naturally flow together.

[Madmike]

We used to check valve for good seating with solvent.  Set the head on the bench with the ports up and fill the port with solvent and leave it for a while to see if it seeps out past the valve face.  You should be able to check the guides with a valve with a good stem, see if they are binding, misshapen or loose.

Like to see a picture of that lock tool if you have one BaggerJohn, could maybe rig something up.

[Techmike]

Thanks guys for all of the great advice and information.  I'm gonna try to fix it my self, in for a penny, in for a pound.  If partzilla ships my stuff, hopefully I'll be up and running in a week or two.  I hope to make DRU, but we shall see.