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Valkorado
Member
Posts: 10497
VRCC DS 0242
Gunnison, Colorado (7,703') Here there be twisties.
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« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2020, 07:13:53 AM » |
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Our state has been Californicated and Boulderized. Lots of fruits and nuts have come in the last decade or so.
The only thing we can count on in life is change. Change isn't always refreshing.
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« Last Edit: November 05, 2020, 07:17:49 AM by Valkorado »
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Have you ever noticed when you're feeling really good, there's always a pigeon that'll come sh!t on your hood? - John Prine 97 Tourer "Silver Bullet" 01 Interstate "Ruby"  |
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MarkT
Member
Posts: 5196
VRCC #437 "Form follows Function"
Colorado Front Range - elevation 2.005 km
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« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2020, 07:36:27 AM » |
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As I said before - it was mis-represented on TV ads. They claimed it was to ensure "your vote is counted". It's just the opposite effect. The electoral college is part of the structure of our constitutional republic since our government was established. This structure ensures that rural or "flyover" areas votes carry weight as well as urban. With this "popular vote" paradigm it increases the weight of the urban vote over the rural. Meaning as the electorate exists today, the coasts - eg. liberals (and urban areas in between) will choose our leaders at the expense of the country folk (conservatives). The blue book described the effect of this structure correctly. No wonder it passed here, we are inundated with californicating liberals. And they lied to help it pass.
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« Last Edit: November 05, 2020, 07:38:56 AM by MarkT »
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« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2020, 08:29:09 AM » |
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I have been chastised on the forum for using my favorite descriptor to describe some people so I wont. |
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Jersey mike
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« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2020, 08:46:35 AM » |
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I have been chastised on the forum for using my favorite descriptor to describe some people so I wont. Don’t hold back, I’m interested in hearing what you have to say. I don’t cry over words and opinions. PM me so it’s in private |
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scooperhsd
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« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2020, 09:00:53 AM » |
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I think the way the Electoral College votes are distributed needs serious changing.
The number of votes each state gets remains as per current law.
What should change is the number of votes each candidate gets.
IMO - Lets say a state gets 20 Electoral votes. So, take the number of popular votes and divide the number of people for each candidate times the number of votes. So, if each candidate drew 50% of the vote, then each would get 10 EC votes. Do that all the way through. Still need 270 votes to win.
I worked this out for 2016 - Trump still won.
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f6gal
Administrator
Member
Posts: 6882
Surprise, AZ
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« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2020, 09:40:03 AM » |
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EC is in the Constitution. Why doesn't this require a Constitutional Amendment? |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2020, 09:46:53 AM » |
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EC is in the Constitution. Why doesn't this require a Constitutional Amendment? It looks to me it's still part of the Electoral College system. These states are just allocating them differently. It seems pretty foolish for a state to give away their Electoral power. But hey, states rights and all.  |
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Serk
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« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2020, 09:47:50 AM » |
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Why doesn't this require a Constitutional Amendment?
In theory because it's not removing the electoral college, just having individual states, who control their own elections, change how they allocate their electors. There are other possible legal issues with this, should it ever come to fruition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact#Constitutionality |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away...  IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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Moonshot_1
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« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2020, 09:50:31 AM » |
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EC is in the Constitution. Why doesn't this require a Constitutional Amendment? Because it is in the Constitution. The States choose their electors. How they do it is up to them. There is a movement between some states call the National Popular vote compact. It is a compact between states that they will determine the disposition of their electors based on the National Popular vote. If a State wants to see the results of a National popular vote to determine their electors, they can try. But, there is no National popular vote. There is no Federal, Constitutional, legal or any other National mandated vote. I would think a challenge would find this Unconstitutional. I would argue that to base the electors on a National vote is allowing other states to choose your electors. And there is no Authoritative Federal National popular vote. |
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Mike Luken
Cherokee, Ia.
Former Iowa Patriot Guard Ride Captain
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f6gal
Administrator
Member
Posts: 6882
Surprise, AZ
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« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2020, 09:55:21 AM » |
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EC is in the Constitution. Why doesn't this require a Constitutional Amendment? It looks to me it's still part of the Electoral College system. These states are just allocating them differently. It seems pretty foolish for a state to give away their Electoral power. But hey, states rights and all. They are skirting the Constitution. They know (or should know) the rationale for EC. These states are essentially banding together as the Republic of California. Just another way to cheat. |
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f6gal
Administrator
Member
Posts: 6882
Surprise, AZ
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« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2020, 10:00:05 AM » |
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Exactly. By banding together, these states are undermining the intent of the Constitution. Do you know if any states implemented this in the current election? If so, it should go to the SCOTUS immediately. |
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Serk
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« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2020, 10:02:08 AM » |
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Exactly. By banding together, these states are undermining the intent of the Constitution. Do you know if any states implemented this in the current election? If so, it should go to the SCOTUS immediately.
Part of this scheme is that it does not go into effect until/unless enough states have joined the compact that they could, on their own, choose the president. (I.E. Currently 270 electoral votes.) So no, hasn't yet been implemented. |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away... IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2020, 10:02:48 AM » |
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EC is in the Constitution. Why doesn't this require a Constitutional Amendment? It looks to me it's still part of the Electoral College system. These states are just allocating them differently. It seems pretty foolish for a state to give away their Electoral power. But hey, states rights and all. They are skirting the Constitution. They know (or should know) the rationale for EC. These states are essentially banding together as the Republic of California. Just another way to cheat. How so ? I'm sure they know the rationale. I just don't see how that matters. If a state changes their laws to say "we will allot our Electors to the selection of our Governor" wouldn't that be legal ? Seems the same thing to me. |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2020, 10:05:24 AM » |
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Exactly. By banding together, these states are undermining the intent of the Constitution. Do you know if any states implemented this in the current election? If so, it should go to the SCOTUS immediately.
Part of this scheme is that it does not go into effect until/unless enough states have joined the compact that they could, on their own, choose the president. (I.E. Currently 270 electoral votes.) So no, hasn't yet been implemented.  seems more theater than anything else |
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f6gal
Administrator
Member
Posts: 6882
Surprise, AZ
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« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2020, 10:11:34 AM » |
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EC is in the Constitution. Why doesn't this require a Constitutional Amendment? It looks to me it's still part of the Electoral College system. These states are just allocating them differently. It seems pretty foolish for a state to give away their Electoral power. But hey, states rights and all. They are skirting the Constitution. They know (or should know) the rationale for EC. These states are essentially banding together as the Republic of California. Just another way to cheat. How so ? I'm sure they know the rationale. I just don't see how that matters. If a state changes their laws to say "we will allot our Electors to the selection of our Governor" wouldn't that be legal ? Seems the same thing to me. Entering a compact with other states undermines the intent of individual states rights. if this were enacted, it would disenfranchise voting in all states except those in the compact. |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2020, 11:19:52 AM » |
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EC is in the Constitution. Why doesn't this require a Constitutional Amendment? It looks to me it's still part of the Electoral College system. These states are just allocating them differently. It seems pretty foolish for a state to give away their Electoral power. But hey, states rights and all. They are skirting the Constitution. They know (or should know) the rationale for EC. These states are essentially banding together as the Republic of California. Just another way to cheat. How so ? I'm sure they know the rationale. I just don't see how that matters. If a state changes their laws to say "we will allot our Electors to the selection of our Governor" wouldn't that be legal ? Seems the same thing to me. Entering a compact with other states undermines the intent of individual states rights. if this were enacted, it would disenfranchise voting in all states except those in the compact. I think we are debating semantics. It can't be enacted. It would take a Constitutional Amendment. They are just stroking themselves to feel good. (Sorry) To carry on the semantics, would you be ok with it if each individual state did this without a compact ? |
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Jersey mike
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« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2020, 11:46:02 AM » |
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EC is in the Constitution. Why doesn't this require a Constitutional Amendment? It looks to me it's still part of the Electoral College system. These states are just allocating them differently. It seems pretty foolish for a state to give away their Electoral power. But hey, states rights and all. They are skirting the Constitution. They know (or should know) the rationale for EC. These states are essentially banding together as the Republic of California. Just another way to cheat. How so ? I'm sure they know the rationale. I just don't see how that matters. If a state changes their laws to say "we will allot our Electors to the selection of our Governor" wouldn't that be legal ? Seems the same thing to me. Entering a compact with other states undermines the intent of individual states rights. if this were enacted, it would disenfranchise voting in all states except those in the compact. I think we are debating semantics. It can't be enacted. It would take a Constitutional Amendment. They are just stroking themselves to feel good. (Sorry) To carry on the semantics, would you be ok with it if each individual state did this without a compact ? But yet they will try. Look at all the states involved. East and west coasts are trying to squeeze the nation. It’s not a fast acting concept, time is not of the essence in the taking over of the nation, it’s the end game that’s important. |
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f6gal
Administrator
Member
Posts: 6882
Surprise, AZ
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« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2020, 11:58:56 AM » |
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EC is in the Constitution. Why doesn't this require a Constitutional Amendment? It looks to me it's still part of the Electoral College system. These states are just allocating them differently. It seems pretty foolish for a state to give away their Electoral power. But hey, states rights and all. They are skirting the Constitution. They know (or should know) the rationale for EC. These states are essentially banding together as the Republic of California. Just another way to cheat. How so ? I'm sure they know the rationale. I just don't see how that matters. If a state changes their laws to say "we will allot our Electors to the selection of our Governor" wouldn't that be legal ? Seems the same thing to me. Entering a compact with other states undermines the intent of individual states rights. if this were enacted, it would disenfranchise voting in all states except those in the compact. I think we are debating semantics. It can't be enacted. It would take a Constitutional Amendment. They are just stroking themselves to feel good. (Sorry) To carry on the semantics, would you be ok with it if each individual state did this without a compact ? Nope. The fact that a state would vote based on votes from other states is a quintessential abdication of their individual state's rights. |
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Beardo
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« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2020, 12:29:52 PM » |
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As I said before - it was mis-represented on TV ads. They claimed it was to ensure "your vote is counted". It's just the opposite effect. The electoral college is part of the structure of our constitutional republic since our government was established. This structure ensures that rural or "flyover" areas votes carry weight as well as urban. With this "popular vote" paradigm it increases the weight of the urban vote over the rural. Meaning as the electorate exists today, the coasts - eg. liberals (and urban areas in between) will choose our leaders at the expense of the country folk (conservatives). The blue book described the effect of this structure correctly. No wonder it passed here, we are inundated with californicating liberals. And they lied to help it pass.
Yeah, anything you can do to prevent one part of the country from having overwhelming control of elections is important. Take it from me or any Western Canadian whose votes never matter because eastern Canada has all the power...and we end up with Trudeau  |
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