Hard starting issue

[FLAVALK]

‘98 standard has been sitting for about a year.  The bike was put into hibernation with dry carbs and a tank of gas with Seafoam. The first thing I noticed when I attempted to get it running was rust in the tank and a frozen throttle. I will list everything I’ve done below, but after cleaning everything up and getting the bike back together I had a hell of a time getting it started...al all. Finally coaxed it into started with full choke. At this point it will start and idle smoothly with the choke 2/3 engaged. I allowed it idle for a few minutes to warm up but if I give it any throttle it immediately dies. If I disengage the choke it immediately dies. Now I’m here asking for your thoughts and recommendations

This is what I’ve done.
Cleaned the tank but have not reinstalled it on the bike.
The battery is good. I just had it load tested and it’s fully charged
Pulled the carbs and dropped all six bowls and they were surprisingly clean. Cleaned thoroughly with carb cleaner anyway. Spayed carb cleaned well into carb throats.
Removed all slow and main jets, soaked them in Berrymans, cleaned them up and verified they were clear. Reinstalled and tightened.
Replaced all the carb vacuum hoses.
Benched checked the cabs for fuel leaks with clean fuel mixed with a little seafoam. The fuel inlet Tees in both banks leaked but I let it sit overnight with fuel in the lines and they eventually stopped. Drained the fuel from the bleed screws and ran the bench test again, even applied pressure (blew hard into the lines). No more leaking at all.
Replaced all fuel lines with new.
Replaced all the intake/carb boots with new since the old ones were dried out.
Replace all intake runner o-rings with new
Replaced the air filter.
It took a half can of carb/choke cleaner to get the throttle linkage freed up but it now works as it should.
Reinstalled the carbs making 100% sure all the air box boots were in place on the carbs.
Installed new air filter.
Hooked up a new remote auxiliary fuel tank and filled with fresh fuel, a little Marvel Mystery Oils and Seafoam. About 1/4 ounce of both to 2pints of fuel.
Adjusted the choke cable and verified it’s working correctly.

So that’s it. Any recommendations are appreciated

[Chrisj CMA]

Did you make sure the vents (third post) next to the jets was clear?  If those are stopped up the bowls will be vacuum locked

[FLAVALK]

Did you make sure the vents (third post) next to the jets was clear?  If those are stopped up the bowls will be vacuum locked

Nope 
The bike has a Pingle petcock, which has a very fine screen, and there is a backup inline fuel filter for “just in case” but I guess anything is possible. The thought of having to do this again is nauseating. 

[da prez]

Will it idle after warming up. They can be stubborn.  After idling ,try to bring throttle up slowly.  Do not be afraid to let it idle.  I have started many a stored bike. They just need time to even out.

            da prez

[FLAVALK]

Will it idle after warming up. They can be stubborn.  After idling ,try to bring throttle up slowly.  Do not be afraid to let it idle.  I have started many a stored bike. They just need time to even out.

            da prez

It will start quickly with full choke and will idle rather well when I back the choke off just a bit. If I go to far it dies. If I give it the least amount of throttle it will die. Right now I have fresh fuel with a healthy dose of Seafoam in the carbs. Will let it sit overnight and try again. If that doesn’t work, I gotta pull the carbs again and this time check the vents. But for it it die so quickly you’d think all the vents would have to be blocked.

[old2soon]

         Maybe the in line fuel filter causing issues. These machines are gravity feed. In line filter may be causing a low spot and restricting fuel delivery. RIDE SAFE.

[FLAVALK]

         Maybe the in line fuel filter causing issues. These machines are gravity feed. In line filter may be causing a low spot and restricting fuel delivery. RIDE SAFE.

At this point there is no filter inline. Just straight fuel lines

[Ricky-D]

First off, I think that fuel mixture you made is not something to use when newly trying to start the engine after all what you did.

The best gas would be non ethanol and nothing added.

Second, your engine is starving for gas, at least, that is how it is acting.

You cleaning method may have clogged up the low speed galleries some causing the poor idle characteristics.

Make sure the bike is upright when attempting to start it.

[FLAVALK]

First off, I think that fuel mixture you made is not something to use when newly trying to start the engine after all what you did.

The best gas would be non ethanol and nothing added.

Second, your engine is starving for gas, at least, that is how it is acting.

You cleaning method may have clogged up the low speed galleries some causing the poor idle characteristics.

Make sure the bike is upright when attempting to start it.

The bike is in the upright position with a brick under the kickstand. The slows and mains were totally clean and clear when I reinstalled them.  The fuel tonic will be flushed in the morning and non ethanol fuel added. If that doesn’t work I will pull the carbs and start over being more thorough this time.
Thanks for your input.

[The emperor has no clothes]

First off, I think that fuel mixture you made is not something to use when newly trying to start the engine after all what you did.

The best gas would be non ethanol and nothing added.

Second, your engine is starving for gas, at least, that is how it is acting.

You cleaning method may have clogged up the low speed galleries some causing the poor idle characteristics.

Make sure the bike is upright when attempting to start it.

The bike is in the upright position with a brick under the kickstand. The slows and mains were totally clean and clear when I reinstalled them.  The fuel tonic will be flushed in the morning and non ethanol fuel added. If that doesn’t work I will pull the carbs and start over being more thorough this time.
Thanks for your input.

Sounds like clogged slow jets to me.

[da prez]

Will it idle after warming up. They can be stubborn.  After idling ,try to bring throttle up slowly.  Do not be afraid to let it idle.  I have started many a stored bike. They just need time to even out.

            da prez
 See other post. Ignore this one

[John Schmidt]

Hey bud, long time no see or chat. I think I agree with the possible constriction of the slow jets. I've found in the past that I was better off just replacing them with new rather then trying to clean the old. Just never seemed to work out good....for me anyway. As Ricky said, it sounds like it's starving for fuel but your description also sounds like the same problem we all get when the slows are even slightly plugged. If I still lived down in Wtr. Pk. I stop by and lend a hand, that way if it ain't broke we could fix it until it is. 

As for fuel additives I'd try Berrymans (vitamin) B12, seems to do a better job than Seafoam...at least has for me.

[Steel cowboy]

Something to check is
the vent line on the tank clogged
The Pingle peacock letting fuel through it
You removed the inline filter but the replacement house could be too long and not letting the cabs gravity feed.
Make sure The vacuum plugs on the intake manifolds and any other vacuum line-are not cracked
It sounds like a fuel starvation issue as said before.

[f-Stop]

Is it possible the your new auxiliary tank you're using to test things is not venting properly?  It needs to vent just like the OEM tank does, plus being a smaller size (I assume) the effects of fuel starvation due to vacuum would certainly increase.

[FLAVALK]

Hey bud, long time no see or chat. I think I agree with the possible constriction of the slow jets. I've found in the past that I was better off just replacing them with new rather then trying to clean the old. Just never seemed to work out good....for me anyway. As Ricky said, it sounds like it's starving for fuel but your description also sounds like the same problem we all get when the slows are even slightly plugged. If I still lived down in Wtr. Pk. I stop by and lend a hand, that way if it ain't broke we could fix it until it is.  

As for fuel additives I'd try Berrymans (vitamin) B12, seems to do a better job than Seafoam...at least has for me.

Hey John! I had no idea you had moved to the fridge north, hope you’re doing well. I’ll bet your riding/golfing season has been curtailed somewhat   When I cleaned the jets I used Berrymans B12 and they sure looked clear eyeballing them. The slows are Sudco 21-38 (one size up) I installed back in 2007 when I got the Viking pipes. Damn that was a long time ago. Anyway, I’ll look them up and see how much they’re selling for today. Back then they were $27 for six. I’m retired now so I’m in no hurry to get things right. You take care and I hope you’re enjoying your new home.

Update: Just looked them up. Seems you can’t order directly from Sudco anymore but prices have doubled. The #38 slows are going for about $11 each now. 

[FLAVALK]

Is it possible the your new auxiliary tank you're using to test things is not venting properly?  It needs to vent just like the OEM tank does, plus being a smaller size (I assume) the effects of fuel starvation due to vacuum would certainly increase.

The little plastic tank was not venting properly but I realized that early on and keep the cap loose. There seems to be adequate fuel flow

Thanks!

[Jims99]

You didn’t mention if you pulled and cleaned the air fuel mixture screws. If not I believe that is your problem. I would pull them, clean, and reinstall at 2 turns out and try again, I think that will fix your problem. Definitely sounds as if it’s starving for fuel.
Dieing when giving it throttle will probably be solved too but if not could be a vent passage clogged.

[FLAVALK]

You didn’t mention if you pulled and cleaned the air fuel mixture screws. If not I believe that is your problem. I would pull them, clean, and reinstall at 2 turns out and try again, I think that will fix your problem. Definitely sounds as if it’s starving for fuel.
Dieing when giving it throttle will probably be solved too but if not could be a vent passage clogged.

I did not. Thanks.

[John Schmidt]

Check your PM messages. Gives a bit of personal history the last couple years. 

John

[Mooskee]

This is from Redeye's web page https://sites.google.com/site/valkparts/


"In case you didn't know, letting your bike sit for a month will allow fuel to gel between the tip of the pilot screw and the hole it goes into. The gel is so small you wouldn't see it, even if you were looking right at it. Here is a CAD picture. It tapers from .004" thick on one end to .002" thick on the other. The thickness of cheap photocopy paper!  Grrrr.

Symptom: You have to keep the choke open to idle. 
Fix:
Open your pilot screws a quarter turn (or half turn).  Stubby Pilot Screw Tool is available for US bikes, to do this.
Start the bike and test drive.  Use acceleration followed by "engine braking" to get fresh fuel to start to flow past this gel plug.  It only takes a few minutes. As soon as the bike is capable of idling, you're done with this step.
Screw the pilot screws back in quarter turn (or half turn)."

[FLAVALK]

This is from Redeye's web page https://sites.google.com/site/valkparts/


"In case you didn't know, letting your bike sit for a month will allow fuel to gel between the tip of the pilot screw and the hole it goes into. The gel is so small you wouldn't see it, even if you were looking right at it. Here is a CAD picture. It tapers from .004" thick on one end to .002" thick on the other. The thickness of cheap photocopy paper!  Grrrr.

Symptom: You have to keep the choke open to idle. 
Fix:
Open your pilot screws a quarter turn (or half turn).  Stubby Pilot Screw Tool is available for US bikes, to do this.
Start the bike and test drive.  Use acceleration followed by "engine braking" to get fresh fuel to start to flow past this gel plug.  It only takes a few minutes. As soon as the bike is capable of idling, you're done with this step.
Screw the pilot screws back in quarter turn (or half turn)."

Thanks, I’ll give that a try before pulling the carbs again. Hope it works.

[Jims99]

Flavalk. Any updates? Wondering if you got her going yet and what the fix was. 

[FLAVALK]

Flavalk. Any updates? Wondering if you got her going yet and what the fix was.  

Oh yes...plenty to update. Pulled the carbs again and the first carb (#6) I checked found the slow jet  blocked down the center so I bought new ones. Pulled the main jet holders and found it cruded up  big time. Also found that it cleans up nicely by soaking in CLR followed by a soak in Berryman’s B12 followed by a tiny carb jet wire and brush. The vent post is blocked so I’ll be working on that today. Pulled the pilot screw and found the tip cruded over and an o-ring flat on one side. The screw also cleaned up nicely with the above process.
Ordered the carb rebuild kit and bowl gaskets from Redeye and when I get that I’ll tear down all the carbs and get them right.
I want to thank you guys for guidance through this process. Hopefully she’ll be running like a new one soon.