Re. the covid vaccine shot...not sure I want it.

[John Schmidt]

I was sent a fact sheet by my medical services provider organization, Bellin Health here in the Green Bay area. After reading through it, I'm not sure I want that in my body. Here's some snippets from the fact sheet, it does nothing whatsoever to quell any fears of the drug. I have too many questions to enter into this like sheep led to the slaughter. The yellow emphasis is mine.
===========================================================
 
The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is a vaccine and may prevent you from getting COVID-19. There is no U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved vaccine to prevent COVID-19.

WHAT IS THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE?
The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is an unapproved vaccine that may prevent COVID-19. There is no FDA-approved vaccine to prevent COVID-19.

We're told to not take it if allergic to any of the ingredients. Really? How in blazes are we supposed to know that?

WHAT ARE THE INGREDIENTS IN THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE?
The Pfizer BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine includes the following ingredients: mRNA, lipids ((4-hydroxybutyl)azanediyl)bis(hexane-6,1-diyl)bis(2-hexyldecanoate), 2 [(polyethylene glycol)-2000]-N,N-ditetradecylacetamide, 1,2-Distearoyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphocholine, and cholesterol), potassium chloride, monobasic potassium phosphate, sodium chloride, dibasic sodium phosphate dihydrate, and sucrose.

HAS THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE BEEN USED BEFORE?
The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is an unapproved vaccine. In clinical trials, approximately 20,000 individuals 16 years of age and older have received at least 1 dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine.

[Jess from VA]

The Pfizer BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine includes the following ingredients: mRNA, lipids ((4-hydroxybutyl)azanediyl)bis(hexane-6,1-diyl)bis(2-hexyldecanoate), 2 [(polyethylene glycol)-2000]-N,N-ditetradecylacetamide, 1,2-Distearoyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphocholine, and cholesterol), potassium chloride, monobasic potassium phosphate, sodium chloride, dibasic sodium phosphate dihydrate, and sucrose.

Well that clears up everything for me.  

I don't know about FDA approved, but it has been approved by somebody to send it (both of them) all over the country.

There's probably a lot more reading available with better information than that notice (which sounds suspiciously to me like it was written by a lawyer and not a doctor).  Like the XX page thread on it now on the forum, if you want to weed through it.  And I bet it's more than 20K by now (is the notice dated?).

You just have to consider your own physical condition and decide if the risk of taking it is worse than the risk of not taking it.  (You have to take it twice, but surviving the 1st one would seem to make the 2d one a good bet.  And if you don't, then you don't have to take the 2d dose.)

Many people also need to consider who they might infect unimunized (family).  I don't.

I have not made up my mind about it, but I'm in no hurry so I have not been reading everything.  I think my living arrangement keeps me at pretty low risk (so far), and will continue.  The longer I wait, the more I'll find out about it... I think.  But I'm farther down the list than you.

It's kind of like buying insurance.  My whole life I never carried anything other than liability and uninsured motorists on any motorcycle (even a new one).  And never been sorry about it once.  But there's more to lose than a motorcycle.  An individual risk assessment.




 

[Robert]

Like anything Covid related its all smoke and mirrors.

Not only is it not approved, its the first vaccine of its kind since it uses RNA to command the body to make antibodies to the virus.

I dont need those in science who cannot even get the test right to give me a shot that they do not know the results of changing or commanding the Cells to do something in our body.

Its not only the ingredients but the reaction to telling cells in our body to do something.

When you read the information below think of how our bodies adapt and think of the possible variables in teaching a cell to make a protein, and think that there have been no real clinical evaluations in this process and those variables.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html

mRNA vaccines are a new type of vaccine to protect against infectious diseases. To trigger an immune response, many vaccines put a weakened or inactivated germ into our bodies. Not mRNA vaccines. Instead, they teach our cells how to make a protein—or even just a piece of a protein—that triggers an immune response inside our bodies. That immune response, which produces antibodies, is what protects us from getting infected if the real virus enters our bodies.

[DDT (12)]

John,

I know what ya mean! Heck, I'm confused myself, bewildered might be a better word, with all the back and forth about this 'potential remedy'... Shucks, every time one of those drug company commercials come on the tube, I cringe at the monotonous, unending list of 'ill effects' possibly associated with its use! Makes ya wonder if the cure might be worse than the ailment in the first place! Mostly lawyer-speak, though, but for us lay-people, nothing else to do but flip a coin or go with whatever other scientific tool we employ and make the call... Good luck with your choice... I still haven't made mine yet...

DDT

[Serk]

As I've stated many times, I fully respect anyone's decision to get the vaccine or not. I'm very comfortable with my decision to get it as quickly as I could.

Explanation of the ingredients, what they are and what they're for:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/12/12/pfizer-covid-vaccine-ingredient-list-nothing-too-surprising-there/6520511002/

And it's true, there are no fully approved vaccines for C19, there are two in the USA that have been granted EUA's (Emergency Use Authorization)

To get full approval will take more time than we have. Here's an explanation on what all has gone into granting the EUA and the difference between an EUA and full approval:

https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/vaccines/emergency-use-authorization-vaccines-explained

[Valkorado]

I'll take the first one that comes along.   That said, of the two currently circulating I'd prefer Moderna.  I'm really hopeful the single dose J&J vaccine comes out soon,  I've heard some really promising things about that one.

[Valkorado]

John,

I know what ya mean! Heck, I'm confused myself, bewildered might be a better word, with all the back and forth about this 'potential remedy'... Shucks, every time one of those drug company commercials come on the tube, I cringe at the monotonous, unending list of 'ill effects' possibly associated with its use! Makes ya wonder if the cure might be worse than the ailment in the first place! Mostly lawyer-speak, though, but for us lay-people, nothing else to do but flip a coin or go with whatever other scientific tool we employ and make the call... Good luck with your choice... I still haven't made mine yet...

DDT

As a non gambling feller,  I think getting a vaccine is important and really hope you get yours.  Admittedly, for selfish reasons...

[Bret SD]

Full disclaimer: I'm a no on taking the vaccine.

There are many ways to deal with CV-19 as you can see in the article below, these are just a few. Recent news around these vaccines are creating more questions than answers it seems, and many studies are suggesting that there are indeed lots of effective ways to deal with the virus.

My default mode is gravitation toward natural medicines first, if all else fails I would go the chemical route. The vaccine makers aren't claiming that you'll have immunity, and likely want to make more and more vaccines for each strain as they pop up. Given the inherent risks of these new types of vaccines and the untrustworthy political manipulation involved in their promotion, manufacture and distribution, I'm firmly in the camp of "I don't trust any of this"..

Studies of people who are seriously ill show up to 90% of them are deficient in vitamin D, there are many natural preventative cocktails that we can look up and use. I know we've been over this ad nauseam and other threads, just wanted to reiterate my opinion that the risks involved when taking all this into final analysis point firmly away from any current vaccine iterations for me.

https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-01-19-really-easy-to-treat-prevent-coronavirus-naturally.html

[..]

https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-01-19-really-easy-to-treat-prevent-coronavirus-naturally.html

https://www.businesslive.co.za/bd/world/asia/2020-12-30-thailand-backs-herbal-treatment-for-covid-19/

[Rams]

Every one has to make their own decision.   What I do know is I got mine last Aug and Sept.   I'm very glad I did.   

As I said way back then, I really thought I received the placebo.   We weren't sure about my wife.   She had minor reactions but, nothing like a severe cold, very minor.   I had no reaction at all.   

Didn't know whether we received the placebo or the Maderna vaccine until this month.    I was very surprised when I was told I got the vaccine.

Regardless of your decision, please follow CDC guidelines, according to what I've been told and read, we can all be carriers and still spread this virus.

Rams

[hubcapsc]

I'd find another doctor... those seem like on-purpose scare tactics to me... both
the pfizer and moderna vaccines are FDA approved (or "authorized" if you want to
mince words...)

https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/mcm-legal-regulatory-and-policy-framework/emergency-use-authorization#coviddrugs

https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine

https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/moderna-covid-19-vaccine

-Mike

[Serk]

I'd find another doctor... those seem like on-purpose scare tactics to me... both
the pfizer and moderna vaccines are FDA approved (or "authorized" if you want to
mince words...)

In his defense, that's not his doctor, the bit about "There is no FDA-approved vaccine to prevent COVID-19." is straight from the handout you get when you get your vaccine and comes straight from the FDA.

Here's the Pfizer version - https://www.fda.gov/media/144414/download

And the Moderna version - https://www.fda.gov/media/144638/download

[Valkorado]

I believe getting vaccinated is a very personal decision so I don't have any issues with what anyone decides.  Chances are you'll never get COVID, or if you're young and healthy and do you'll likely shrug it off.

I have several health issues that are severe enough to cause legitimate concern around getting one of these vaccines, but I have more concern about contracting C-19 and playing my odds with that.

A rhetorical, tho.  If, God forbid, you were to fall ill with the sh!t and you decide to fight the good fight from home, how would you react if symptoms accelerated in a few hours from a "mild" sickness and cough to more severe symptoms including high fever and lung congestion?  Is that the point you'd seek medical attention, or would you keep fighting the good fight?  Remember time is of the essence at this point...

For those that who experience worsening symptoms and are willing to walk the fine line between seeking treatment or toughing it out (living and dying, maybe?), I have heard a mega dose of vitamin D could indeed help.  Like, a 100,000mg daily dose for three days!

Another gamble I'm not sure I'd take if it were me.

[BigInSeattle]

https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-01-19-really-easy-to-treat-prevent-coronavirus-naturally.html

That's the same line of thinking that killed Steve Jobs. He thought he was "above" medicine and could cure his cancer with natural remedies. It didn't work, and neither will drinking green tea to cure a viral infection.

Incidents of death or other reactions (so far) are very very low. I'd rather take my chances with the vaccine than take my chances with COVID

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-18/what-to-know-about-vaccine-related-deaths-allergies-quicktake

[f6gal]

As Serk said, the vaccine has FDA EUA. Under an EUA, the FDA makes a product available to the public based on the best available evidence, along with consideration of potential risks and benefits.  It can take years to get full FDA approval.  

They suspect the allergic reactions have been to the ingredient polyethylene glycol (PEG).  If you have had injections in the past without a reaction and you don't have a ton of medication allergies, you probably won't be allergic to the vaccine either.  But, even if you do have an allergic reaction, it is much easier to treat than a guy in his 80's with COVID.  Allergic reactions are treated immediately on site.  I haven't heard of anyone dying from a vaccine allergic reaction.

John, your age cohort is at the highest risk for a bad COVID outcome.  If you don't have a bunch of allergies, you should be fine.  If there are long term issues (20+ years), that's not really going to impact you, is it?

Bottom line?  If you were my dad, I'd tell you to get the vaccine.  

(P.S.  I'm getting my second dose today.  Several years ago, I did have an allergic reaction to a knee injection, so I had my first dose fully expecting a reaction.. but if didn't happen.)

[BigInSeattle]

They suspect the allergic reactions have been to the ingredient polyethylene glycol (PEG).  If you have had injections in the past without a reaction and you don't have a ton of medication allergies, you probably won't be allergic to the vaccine either.  But, even if you do have an allergic reaction, it is much easier to treat than a guy in his 80's with COVID.  Allergic reactions are treated immediately on site.  I haven't heard of anyone dying from a vaccine allergic reaction.

Wellllll there have been a couple of older people (80+) who were already frail die not too long after taking the vaccine. Was the vaccine part of that death? Maybe? If I was in my 80s and already frail and/or terminally sick I'd have second thoughts about it too more than likely.

[f6gal]

They suspect the allergic reactions have been to the ingredient polyethylene glycol (PEG).  If you have had injections in the past without a reaction and you don't have a ton of medication allergies, you probably won't be allergic to the vaccine either.  But, even if you do have an allergic reaction, it is much easier to treat than a guy in his 80's with COVID.  Allergic reactions are treated immediately on site.  I haven't heard of anyone dying from a vaccine allergic reaction.

Wellllll there have been a couple of older people (80+) who were already frail die not too long after taking the vaccine. Was the vaccine part of that death? Maybe? If I was in my 80s and already frail and/or terminally sick I'd have second thoughts about it too more than likely.

John is not what I would consider frail and he's definitely not terminally sick.  80 year olds don't do well with COVID, that's a fact.  The cases to which you're referring did not have allergic reactions, that would have been immediate.  I seriously doubt that the vaccine contributed to the deaths at all.  They were already frail and ill, they likely died because of their existing issues.  If a person had meatloaf the night before they died, did the meatloaf kill them?  

[Valkorado]

They suspect the allergic reactions have been to the ingredient polyethylene glycol (PEG).  If you have had injections in the past without a reaction and you don't have a ton of medication allergies, you probably won't be allergic to the vaccine either.  But, even if you do have an allergic reaction, it is much easier to treat than a guy in his 80's with COVID.  Allergic reactions are treated immediately on site.  I haven't heard of anyone dying from a vaccine allergic reaction.

Wellllll there have been a couple of older people (80+) who were already frail die not too long after taking the vaccine. Was the vaccine part of that death? Maybe? If I was in my 80s and already frail and/or terminally sick I'd have second thoughts about it too more than likely.

John is not what I would consider frail and he's definitely not terminally sick.  80 year olds don't do well with COVID, that's a fact.  The cases to which you're referring did not have allergic reactions, that would have been immediate.  I seriously doubt that the vaccine contributed to the deaths at all.  They were already frail and ill, they likely died because of their existing issues.  If a person had meatloaf the night before they died, did the meatloaf kill them?  

I've made some loafs of meat that put a pretty bad hurtin' on me, and woulda probably put a frail person down!  I don't cook a whole lot anymore.

[BigInSeattle]

They suspect the allergic reactions have been to the ingredient polyethylene glycol (PEG).  If you have had injections in the past without a reaction and you don't have a ton of medication allergies, you probably won't be allergic to the vaccine either.  But, even if you do have an allergic reaction, it is much easier to treat than a guy in his 80's with COVID.  Allergic reactions are treated immediately on site.  I haven't heard of anyone dying from a vaccine allergic reaction.

Wellllll there have been a couple of older people (80+) who were already frail die not too long after taking the vaccine. Was the vaccine part of that death? Maybe? If I was in my 80s and already frail and/or terminally sick I'd have second thoughts about it too more than likely.

John is not what I would consider frail and he's definitely not terminally sick.  80 year olds don't do well with COVID, that's a fact.  The cases to which you're referring did not have allergic reactions, that would have been immediate.  I seriously doubt that the vaccine contributed to the deaths at all.  They were already frail and ill, they likely died because of their existing issues.  If a person had meatloaf the night before they died, did the meatloaf kill them?  

Well, in that article I posted the older frail people died of complications common with any vaccine. Don't get me wrong, I want EVERYONE TO GET A VACCINE. The more people we get vaccinated the quicker we can get out of this mess.

It is just a fact that much older people in already compromised positions can have issues with any vaccine or other medical treatment. That is all.

[f6gal]

They suspect the allergic reactions have been to the ingredient polyethylene glycol (PEG).  If you have had injections in the past without a reaction and you don't have a ton of medication allergies, you probably won't be allergic to the vaccine either.  But, even if you do have an allergic reaction, it is much easier to treat than a guy in his 80's with COVID.  Allergic reactions are treated immediately on site.  I haven't heard of anyone dying from a vaccine allergic reaction.

Wellllll there have been a couple of older people (80+) who were already frail die not too long after taking the vaccine. Was the vaccine part of that death? Maybe? If I was in my 80s and already frail and/or terminally sick I'd have second thoughts about it too more than likely.

John is not what I would consider frail and he's definitely not terminally sick.  80 year olds don't do well with COVID, that's a fact.  The cases to which you're referring did not have allergic reactions, that would have been immediate.  I seriously doubt that the vaccine contributed to the deaths at all.  They were already frail and ill, they likely died because of their existing issues.  If a person had meatloaf the night before they died, did the meatloaf kill them?  

Well, in that article I posted the older frail people died of complications common with any vaccine. Don't get me wrong, I want EVERYONE TO GET A VACCINE. The more people we get vaccinated the quicker we can get out of this mess.

It is just a fact that much older people in already compromised positions can have issues with any vaccine or other medical treatment. That is all.

"Those who died were all in the “75 years+” bracket [...] and included terminally ill patients anticipated to have only weeks or months to live. All deaths occurring within a few days of vaccination are carefully assessed. Health authorities in Norway say there’s no evidence of a direct link between the 33 cases and the vaccine they received."

[Willow]

...  80 year olds don't do well with COVID, that's a fact.  ...

The last statistics I saw indicated a person 85+ had an 84% chance of surviving a COVID-19 infection.  That's not great but it's not a death sentence as the media presents it.

[f6gal]

...  80 year olds don't do well with COVID, that's a fact.  ...

The last statistics I saw indicated a person 85+ had an 84% chance of surviving a COVID-19 infection.  That's not great but it's not a death sentence as the media presents it.

And the vaccine has statistically 100% chance of surviving.  Additionally, I said bad outcome, not necessarily death.  For instance, one person I know, had COVID starting 12-2; she was hospitalized for COVID-related pneumonia on 12-12; she was discharged from the hospital on 12/23.  She still has cough and shortness of breath; she has been unable to wean off oxygen and is using portable oxygen 24/7; she is using a wheelchair because she is still so weak.  Prior to COVID, she was healthy and going to work everyday.  She can't return to work still, because she has to speak on the phone and she gets too short of breath to carry on a conversation. 

[scooperhsd]

By that standard - 99% of us don't need the vaccine. However - how much of a medical bill treating it do you want to run up in the hospital fighting it if you're one of the unlucky ones ? By that standard - cost/ benefit - how could anyone NOT afford to take it ?

You see those stories in the news about people who spent 3 weeks, 3 months, 6 months in the hospital before they recovered enough to leave. I would think the medical bills from that long of a stay would bankrupt most if not all of us (even after insurance) - you would have no choice but to declare bankruptcy for the medical bills.

[Willow]

By that standard - 99% of us don't need the vaccine. However - how much of a medical bill treating it do you want to run up in the hospital fighting it if you're one of the unlucky ones ? By that standard - cost/ benefit - how could anyone NOT afford to take it ?

By that logic, how dare you ride on public roads?   

[scooperhsd]

By that standard - 99% of us don't need the vaccine. However - how much of a medical bill treating it do you want to run up in the hospital fighting it if you're one of the unlucky ones ? By that standard - cost/ benefit - how could anyone NOT afford to take it ?

By that logic, how dare you ride on public roads?   

Speaking of which, I might take a ride this afternoon....

[98valk]

https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/urgent-warning-please-spread-this-message/

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/55-americans-have-died-following-covid-vaccination-norway-deaths-rise-29

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pentagon-study-flu-shot-raises-risk-of-coronavirus-by-36-and-other-supporting-studies

https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/tip-of-the-iceberg-thousands-of-covid-vaccine-injuries-13-deaths-reported-in-december-alone/

[Bret SD]

https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-01-19-really-easy-to-treat-prevent-coronavirus-naturally.html

That's the same line of thinking that killed Steve Jobs. He thought he was "above" medicine and could cure his cancer with natural remedies. It didn't work, and neither will drinking green tea to cure a viral infection.

Incidents of death or other reactions (so far) are very very low. I'd rather take my chances with the vaccine than take my chances with COVID

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-18/what-to-know-about-vaccine-related-deaths-allergies-quicktake

Considering the mortality rate for pancreatic cancer sits solidly at 94% regardless of treatment via Western medicine or seeking alternative medicines.. I'm not sure what your point is here.

In my view Western medicine has done some great things and continues to do so, however the system is flawed and has become a 'sick care' system versus a healthcare system. What we have now is a box checking system with chemicals dispensed routinely by doctors as a matter of course. I believe traditional 'doctoring' is on life support, as big Pharma has taken over the entire Medical system.

Many doctors are on board with natural medicines and I think the trend it will continue to grow.

They suspect the allergic reactions have been to the ingredient polyethylene glycol (PEG).  If you have had injections in the past without a reaction and you don't have a ton of medication allergies, you probably won't be allergic to the vaccine either.  But, even if you do have an allergic reaction, it is much easier to treat than a guy in his 80's with COVID.  Allergic reactions are treated immediately on site.  I haven't heard of anyone dying from a vaccine allergic reaction.

Wellllll there have been a couple of older people (80+) who were already frail die not too long after taking the vaccine. Was the vaccine part of that death? Maybe? If I was in my 80s and already frail and/or terminally sick I'd have second thoughts about it too more than likely.

John is not what I would consider frail and he's definitely not terminally sick.  80 year olds don't do well with COVID, that's a fact.  The cases to which you're referring did not have allergic reactions, that would have been immediate.  I seriously doubt that the vaccine contributed to the deaths at all.  They were already frail and ill, they likely died because of their existing issues.  If a person had meatloaf the night before they died, did the meatloaf kill them? 

Well, in that article I posted the older frail people died of complications common with any vaccine. Don't get me wrong, I want EVERYONE TO GET A VACCINE. The more people we get vaccinated the quicker we can get out of this mess.

It is just a fact that much older people in already compromised positions can have issues with any vaccine or other medical treatment. That is all.

"Those who died were all in the “75 years+” bracket [...] and included terminally ill patients anticipated to have only weeks or months to live. All deaths occurring within a few days of vaccination are carefully assessed. Health authorities in Norway say there’s no evidence of a direct link between the 33 cases and the vaccine they received."

This is what should have been done here regarding declared covid-19 deaths, I'll bet the people running this thing (think CDC) will do exactly the opposite of what they're doing when declaring covid deaths versus deaths from the vaccine.

They create suspicion and distrust through their actions as they continue to exploit covid-19 for political reasons.

I'll continue to go back to the Sturgis rally, hundreds of thousands of people partying together and there was no giant infection event.. This is real world, not theory, and I've heard no good explanation for this from anywhere.

While we're at it let's throw in the massive crowds at the New Year's 2021 celebration in Wuhan, if there are reports of super infections from the event I haven't seen anything on it. Nothing happens without CCP permission in China, it's a little strange that crowds were allowed to form for a New Year celebration without vaccines, maybe they know something we don't.. Or maybe our government knows something and they're scamming us.

Personally I don't want to be in a crowded indoor space, that goes for anywhere and anytime, even before covid.

[f6gal]

https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-01-19-really-easy-to-treat-prevent-coronavirus-naturally.html

That's the same line of thinking that killed Steve Jobs. He thought he was "above" medicine and could cure his cancer with natural remedies. It didn't work, and neither will drinking green tea to cure a viral infection.

Incidents of death or other reactions (so far) are very very low. I'd rather take my chances with the vaccine than take my chances with COVID

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-18/what-to-know-about-vaccine-related-deaths-allergies-quicktake

Considering the mortality rate for pancreatic cancer sits solidly at 94% regardless of treatment via Western medicine or seeking alternative medicines.. I'm not sure what your point is here.

In my view Western medicine has done some great things and continues to do so, however the system is flawed and has become a 'sick care' system versus a healthcare system. What we have now is a box checking system with chemicals dispensed routinely by doctors as a matter of course. I believe traditional 'doctoring' is on life support, as big Pharma has taken over the entire Medical system.

Many doctors are on board with natural medicines and I think the trend it will continue to grow.

They suspect the allergic reactions have been to the ingredient polyethylene glycol (PEG).  If you have had injections in the past without a reaction and you don't have a ton of medication allergies, you probably won't be allergic to the vaccine either.  But, even if you do have an allergic reaction, it is much easier to treat than a guy in his 80's with COVID.  Allergic reactions are treated immediately on site.  I haven't heard of anyone dying from a vaccine allergic reaction.

Wellllll there have been a couple of older people (80+) who were already frail die not too long after taking the vaccine. Was the vaccine part of that death? Maybe? If I was in my 80s and already frail and/or terminally sick I'd have second thoughts about it too more than likely.

John is not what I would consider frail and he's definitely not terminally sick.  80 year olds don't do well with COVID, that's a fact.  The cases to which you're referring did not have allergic reactions, that would have been immediate.  I seriously doubt that the vaccine contributed to the deaths at all.  They were already frail and ill, they likely died because of their existing issues.  If a person had meatloaf the night before they died, did the meatloaf kill them? 

Well, in that article I posted the older frail people died of complications common with any vaccine. Don't get me wrong, I want EVERYONE TO GET A VACCINE. The more people we get vaccinated the quicker we can get out of this mess.

It is just a fact that much older people in already compromised positions can have issues with any vaccine or other medical treatment. That is all.

"Those who died were all in the “75 years+” bracket [...] and included terminally ill patients anticipated to have only weeks or months to live. All deaths occurring within a few days of vaccination are carefully assessed. Health authorities in Norway say there’s no evidence of a direct link between the 33 cases and the vaccine they received."

This is what should have been done here regarding declared covid-19 deaths, I'll bet the people running this thing (think CDC) will do exactly the opposite of what they're doing when declaring covid deaths versus deaths from the vaccine.

They create suspicion and distrust through their actions as they continue to exploit covid-19 for political reasons.

I'll continue to go back to the Sturgis rally, hundreds of thousands of people partying together and there was no giant infection event.. This is real world, not theory, and I've heard no good explanation for this from anywhere.

While we're at it let's throw in the massive crowds at the New Year's 2021 celebration in Wuhan, if there are reports of super infections from the event I haven't seen anything on it. Nothing happens without CCP permission in China, it's a little strange that crowds were allowed to form for a New Year celebration without vaccines, maybe they know something we don't.. Or maybe our government knows something and they're scamming us.

Personally I don't want to be in a crowded indoor space, that goes for anywhere and anytime, even before covid. 

Agreed.

[Valkorado]

However - how much of a medical bill treating it do you want to run up in the hospital fighting it if you're one of the unlucky ones ?

I figure if you coulda got the inoculation but opt out and later have to visit the hospital due to C-19 complications, you maybe shoulda -- and you'd probably wish you woulda -- taken the vaccine.

[John Schmidt]

Well...WOW...lots of opinions and suggestions, I'm thankful for all of it.  

As most of you know, I'm in my 80's(83 in a couple months), rather active considering the weather this time of year in Wisconsin. I've had two recent checkups, one with my primary care and the other with the cancer doctor. Lab work was great for both and they only want to see me in a year. As for inoculation reaction, that's something I've never had happen. Once had a mild reaction with one of the early flu shots when a live virus was used and I don't think it was the shot. While in the USAF, one summer afternoon a bunch of us were playing volleyball out behind the shop before our shift began. About the time we were all hot and sweaty, our squadron commander came out, jumped up and spiked the ball, then said "everybody inside for shot record update and a flu shot." I ended up getting 3 shots and the flu shot just before going on duty that evening. It only lasted a couple hours but I was one miserable dude during that time. The injection sites for all had no reaction whatsoever; no redness, swelling, etc. Just felt like I was going to lose everything I had eaten for the last couple years.

As for the vaccine, I'll probably end up getting it. I don't plan to tell my daughter since she's totally against it. My activities around here and during travel the last 12 months have turned up bug-free. I go when and where I want, just use normal precautions when doing so. Three surgical procedures in recent years have been merely an inconvenience for a short period so I feel my overall physical well being is quite good, quite strong. Will let you all know wha'hoppens!  

[msb]

My default mode is gravitation toward natural medicines first, if all else fails I would go the chemical route.

Studies of people who are seriously ill show up to 90% of them are deficient in vitamin D, there are many natural preventative cocktails that we can look up and use.

https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-01-19-really-easy-to-treat-prevent-coronavirus-naturally.html

I agree with these two statements. I've stated before that I will most likely take the vaccine when available to me, but I'm still only 80-90% sure. The role of natural medicines and vitamins is under-used and under-appreciated in our society I believe. My wife has been a certified natural nutritionist for many years, so being the good husband I am , I have listened to her for the most part, and have had many successes with natural-based remedies over the years. I'm sure there have been many manufactured drugs that have been based on existing natural remedies as well, so it doesn't make sense to me to totally discount them. That being said, when certain manufactured drugs have been prescribed by our doctors or a specialist for more acute ailments, we haven't been adverse to using them. I prefer to accept that an informed "mix" of the two is best for me. The whole vitamin, natural remedy thing goes along with what one decides in general to put into their body as well...it makes sense that the less "unhealthy" stuff that goes in, the less treatments or remedies are needed to address many chronic issues. It's true that even the healthiest of health-conscious people can still be afflicted with acute or serious illnesses, but just like preventative maintenance on our Valkyries, why not do all we can to ensure our aging bodies are protected from breakdowns as well?

[Willow]

I figure if you coulda got the inoculation but opt out and later have to visit the hospital due to C-19 complications, you maybe shoulda -- and you'd probably wish you woulda -- taken the vaccine.

We'll have to wait to see but ask me if the time comes.  I doubt I will so wish.

[Valkorado]

I figure if you coulda got the inoculation but opt out and later have to visit the hospital due to C-19 complications, you maybe shoulda -- and you'd probably wish you woulda -- taken the vaccine.

We'll have to wait to see but ask me if the time comes.  I doubt I will so wish.

Of course you doubt it Willow.  That's no skin off my arse.  If ya don't get out of the horsepistol alive, will that yellow bike to me!

[scooperhsd]

I figure if you coulda got the inoculation but opt out and later have to visit the hospital due to C-19 complications, you maybe shoulda -- and you'd probably wish you woulda -- taken the vaccine.

We'll have to wait to see but ask me if the time comes.  I doubt I will so wish.

Of course you doubt it Willow.  That's no skin off my arse.  If ya don't get out of the horsepistol alive, will that yellow bike to me!

I claim it !  I'm closer, and I only own 1 Valk . This is assuming Motomama doesn't want to keep it , of course...

[cookiedough]

I'd get the vaccine if was 75 and older or had other illnesses where I am at greater risk of once infected dying.  Sometime in February my mom's age 78 asst. living home are suppose to get the 1st shot. 

I hear there are side effects of getting especially the 1st shot but a sore arm and fever, etc. is not terrible if only lasts 1-2 days. 

[Willow]

I figure if you coulda got the inoculation but opt out and later have to visit the hospital due to C-19 complications, you maybe shoulda -- and you'd probably wish you woulda -- taken the vaccine.

We'll have to wait to see but ask me if the time comes.  I doubt I will so wish.

Of course you doubt it Willow.  That's no skin off my arse.  If ya don't get out of the horsepistol alive, will that yellow bike to me!

I claim it !  I'm closer, and I only own 1 Valk . This is assuming Motomama doesn't want to keep it , of course...

Tough call but I'm going to be buried astride Daisy Mae.   

[Bret SD]

but just like preventative maintenance on our Valkyries, why not do all we can to ensure our aging bodies are protected from breakdowns as well?

This^^ 

[Patrick]

polyethylene glycol (PEG)   ???


Maybe it'll also keep you from freezing up during the cold winters.

[f6gal]

polyethylene glycol (PEG)   ???

Maybe it'll also keep you from freezing up during the cold winters.

Polyethylene glycol and ethylene glycol are very different substances. The first is a common ingredient in medications, the latter (anti-freeze) is a highly toxic industrial product.

[da prez]

  I was called today by V.A. for receiving the first shot. My question to them was , "I inject with enbrel for rheumatoid arthritis. (I was on humara for several years until I became immune. When I was to get the shingle shot I had to be off humara for 31 days before and after the shot.)
 I asked the person that called me if I needed to be off the enbrel to take the vaccine. Ten transfers later , I had a nurse that cared and did the research and got me an answer. She called me back and said i could take the vaccine with no known (?) issue.  The injection is given with a follow up in 28 days.
  I have a weakened immune system  , but no other known problems.
  I may go for it. Initially I was against it.
                                               da prez