Don't Talk to the Police

[98valk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

Regent Law Professor James Duane gives viewers startling reasons why they should always exercise their 5th Amendment rights when questioned by government officials.

[Chrisj CMA]

If you shoot someone in self defense you say “I was in fear for my life”. If asked any other question you say “I was in fear for my life”. The only other thing I would say is “that’s all I’m going to say”

[cookiedough]

I bet in a routine traffic stop say speeding, etc. to a police officer you say I excercise my 5th Amendment he/she will give you a ticket vs. just answering their simple questions.   

[Oss]

when pulled over

get way off the road
dome lights on
window down   hand on wheel and hand on wallet open 
smile, show pba cards  thank officer for his service

no ticket  so far

 

[Jess from VA]

Big difference in violent encounters vs routine traffic stops.

It's probably a good idea to be polite and answer questions in traffic tickets.  But it's still not the time to be extra talkative or make a new friend.  Hands in plan view.

Except for a couple things.

1)  The question do you know how fast you were going? is a trick question.  Yes is an admission, and no means he can say you were 20 over.  

2)  NEVER give consent for a search.

3)  Make sure you know the law on duty to disclose CCW, in every single state you may be traveling (if relevant).  Handing the permit over with the license and registration is the best way to do it.

4)  Do not tell them about the body in the truck.


(Oss) In a real busy area, I once pulled my bike well onto into a muddy construction zone.

Officer: Why did you pull clear into this mess?

Me:      Because it's terrible traffic out there, and not safe for me or you.  (big smile, no ticket, even at 20 over) (but it was my birthday)

[Chrisj CMA]

Big difference in violent encounters vs routine traffic stops.

It's probably a good idea to be polite and answer questions in traffic tickets.  But it's still not the time to be extra talkative or make a new friend.  Hands in plan view.

Except for a couple things.

1)  The question do you know how fast you were going? is a trick question.  Yes is an admission, and no means he can say you were 20 over.  

2)  NEVER give consent for a search.

3)  Make sure you know the law on duty to disclose CCW, in every single state you may be traveling (if relevant).  Handing the permit over with the license and registration is the best way to do it.

4)  Do not tell them about the body in the truck.

Or you can tell them about a body in the trunk. When back up is called, you’re face down on the ground and no body is found. You tell the back up officer next he’s going to say I was speeding

[Jess from VA]

Or you can tell them about a body in the trunk. When back up is called, you’re face down on the ground and no body is found. You tell the back up officer next he’s going to say I was speeding

   

[F6Dave]

1)  The question do you know how fast you were going? is a trick question.  Yes is an admission, and no means he can say you were 20 over.  

So how should someone answer that trick question?  Sounds like a 'catch 22'.

[Sorcerer]

1)  The question do you know how fast you were going? is a trick question.  Yes is an admission, and no means he can say you were 20 over.  

So how should someone answer that trick question?  Sounds like a 'catch 22'.

If you stop at “yes” that would be a great choice. You have not lied. You may even have just called the officers bluff. Never ever add a number to your statement. Even when prodded. I know some that have there carry permit right behind their drivers license. My lawyer’s business card is between my DL and my carry permit. The officer is scanning everything.

[Jess from VA]

1)  The question do you know how fast you were going? is a trick question.  Yes is an admission, and no means he can say you were 20 over.  

So how should someone answer that trick question?  Sounds like a 'catch 22'.

If you stop at “yes” that would be a great choice. You have not lied. You may even have just called the officers bluff. Never ever add a number to your statement. Even when prodded. I know some that have there carry permit right behind their drivers license. My lawyer’s business card is between my DL and my carry permit. The officer is scanning everything.

My trifold opens up showing both my dr. license and military ID in two adjacent clear windows, and the permit is right behind the license.  A couple times, the guy (looking over my shoulder) goes.... so you're military?  Well, not active duty anymore.  It's no guarantee of a good outcome, but it's a couple points in your favor (as is the permit, usually).  So is... officer, I don't think I've had a moving violation in 8-9 years or so.

I don't know what it is exactly, but whenever I've driven trucks and vans (my whole life), I never get pulled over, only my (fast) cars.  Not that my trucks won't speed.

Getting old (with a tame right foot) has helped too.  Being retired with all day to choose when and where to go also helps considerably. 

[old2soon]

1)  The question do you know how fast you were going? is a trick question.  Yes is an admission, and no means he can say you were 20 over.  

So how should someone answer that trick question?  Sounds like a 'catch 22'.

If you stop at “yes” that would be a great choice. You have not lied. You may even have just called the officers bluff. Never ever add a number to your statement. Even when prodded. I know some that have there carry permit right behind their drivers license. My lawyer’s business card is between my DL and my carry permit. The officer is scanning everything.

My trifold opens up showing both my dr. license and military ID in two adjacent clear windows, and the permit is right behind the license.  A couple times, the guy (looking over my shoulder) goes.... so you're military?  Well, not active duty anymore.  It's no guarantee of a good outcome, but it's a couple points in your favor (as is the permit, usually).  So is... officer, I don't think I've had a moving violation in 8-9 years or so.

I don't know what it is exactly, but whenever I've driven trucks and vans (my whole life), I never get pulled over, only my (fast) cars.  Not that my trucks won't speed.

Getting old (with a tame right foot) has helped too.  Being retired with all day to choose when and where to go also helps considerably. 

              I use the cruise control on the Grand Prix a Lot. And whatever the speed limit is in Illinois I set the cruise about 2 or 3 mph Below the limit. Phatt Ghurl on da udder hand!  Gotz ta rekemember the body in the trunk dealy!  RIDE SAFE.

[vanagon40]

1)  The question do you know how fast you were going? is a trick question.  Yes is an admission, and no means he can say you were 20 over.  

So how should someone answer that trick question?  Sounds like a 'catch 22'.

I have had really good luck with "I don't know, I wasn't paying any attention." Conveys I was not in a hurry to get somewhere, I was not intentionally speeding, etc. (even if I was intentionally speeding and in a hurry to get somewhere).

Also, never pay a speeding ticket if there is an alternative. Lots of states or counties offer diversion programs or deferred prosecutions. Even if it costs more, it is worth it to keep a clean record (and your insurance rates will not go up). Contact the local prosecutors office to see there is an option to keep a violation off your record. You are more likely to get a warning and keep a clean record if you have a clean record (I have received LOTS of warnings). It helps if you are a senior citizen (or close) in a family sedan (not a roadster convertible).

Finally, my photo on my license is me in a coat and tie. My theory is when the officer is sitting in his car (his commission), he is looking at an upper class professional, not the bum in shorts and a tank top he pulled over.

To keep this post from being a complete hijack, I agree 100% with the OP and James Duane (the you tube link). If the investigation is more than a routine traffic stop, it is rare that anything good can happen from speaking to the police. The police have the freedom to lie about anything and everything. Any innocent mistake a suspect makes will be used against him.

[F6Dave]

I've only been to traffic court once in the last 20 years, and things sure were different.  In the past you sat in a small room with a handful of people while waiting to talk with someone in the DA's office.  Last time I was in this massive room with maybe a hundred people, and they all seemed to know each other.

[scooperhsd]

I have NEVER been to traffic court (believe it or not), and especially now , I'm rather careful on my speed and other things on driving. OTOH - if it was really important (medical emergency and we couldn't wait for an ambulance) - I would speed slightly while proceeding to the nearest hospital while still remaining safe.

I think the advice about nontraffic is sound, however.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

On a bike, I'm nearly always speeding, and I get pulled over every few years, no tickets yet.

I make sure I do nothing to make the officer nervous first of all. Once when getting pulled over in my home state the young LEO seemed very gruff. When he asked why the excessive speed I told him the truth. It was a beautiful day, I hadn't been able to ride in a while and I got a little over exuberant.

He suddenly smiled, said as soon as he gets off work he's taking his wife for a ride on his bike and told us to have a great day.

I always pass them my permit with my license by way. Even if it's not required. I think it puts the LEO at ease not having to wonder if I'm armed and the fact that I'm telling him lets him know I'm not a criminal.

I figure they want to go home every day just like I do and I treat the situation accordingly.

[Jess from VA]

I've only been to traffic court once in the last 20 years...

I have NEVER been to traffic court (believe it or not....

I began attending traffic court at 17, and continued on and off (for myself) for many years (only once in 25 years though).  I got my driver's license during the height of the muscle car era and no way I was going to be left out of that.     (always for cars, never my bikes)

If you weren't in traffic court from time to time back then, you weren't trying hard enough.   All my friends could be found down there too.  

I plead not guilty, prepared and had two small traffic trials, cross examining the cops (and won both cases) long before I ever went to law school.  I had already chosen the profession, and viewed it as early training (but I was innocent of those two, I just paid the others).

In business, I've been in traffic, misdemeanor, small civil District Courts and Circuit Courts many hundreds of times.  People paid me to show up, so I did.    

Did a dozen Courts martial, prosecuted civilians in Fed Magistrates Court for civilian offenses on base, and MSPB too.  Hundreds of Article 15s (navy mast).  And 25 Article 32 Pretrial Investigations (felony one man grand jury under UCMJ).  

But none for a long time now.  





  

[Robert]

Just say you might have Covid was on the way to testing, and he will clear out fast. 

[old2soon]

        Right here in Missouri State Trooper pulled me over on Phatt Ghurl and I KNEW I was way WRONG Speed wise. When I pulled over I turned on the 4-ways shut engine off put down the K S and watched him approach me in the mirrors. He sez-any Idea how fast you were going? And as I looked at him I asked for permission to remove helmet gloves and open my jacket. And he asked me Why did you ask me permission for gear removal? I said Sir simple I prefer to NOT become a statistic. And he chuckled. As to your first question idea of my speed well obviously fast enough you felt it necessary to talk to me about my speed. He chuckled again. Got my license out and I said registration and long form insurance in my trunk and I'd have to git off the M/C to access that. And my license is in my wallet in my W/S pouch. With Your Permission I will pull open my W/S pouch and git you the needed papers. Permission Granted. License ins card and CCW Permit looked at CCW gave that back saying thank you walked back to the squad came back in a couple minutes with a Warning ticket-No points No money-told me he rides too and right now the squad that would cover Mo. 95 N was busy fer awhile and I should be good!  He also added-please don't kill yourself.  Saw him at a fuel stop bout a week later and thanked Him for His Curtesy. And I was still alive and had a Good airing out on 95 that day!  RIDE SAFE.

[3fan4life]

My last ticket was on the ST1300.

I pulled out to pass a slow car on a 2 lane road.

The other 2 bikes that were with me also pulled out.

About the same time 2 cars popped over the hill coming towards us.

I sped up to make the pass quickly and make room for the others to complete the pass as well.

Right then the officer lit up from his hiding spot.


All three of us pulled over into a wide spot in the road as soon as it was possible.

When the officer approached he asked me if I knew how fast I was going,

My response was; "No sir not a clue?"

When he told me he had me for 78 in a 55, my first thought was thank God it wasn't triple digits.


I got out of it without anything on my record, but including what I paid for a lawyer it costs me $600.

[Jess from VA]

I got out of it without anything on my record, but including what I paid for a lawyer it costs me $600.

Was that in VA Mark?

I got a 20 over (at least not a reckless) here in Fairfax County (my first moving violation on any motorcycle ever), about 15 years ago, and I had a hell of a time fighting to get a plea to 19 over (even with a buddy VA lawyer working for me).  That one MPH, shaved points and insurance rates and kept it from staying on my record so long.  But I still had a 19 over and paid a fine (not $600).  

Course, we're run by communists up here.   (We only got the deal to 19 after threatening to go to trial and subpoena the radar equipment and certifications and cops)

You're way better off in Federal Magistrates Court up here (like on the GW Parkway) than state court.

[F6Dave]

My last speeding ticket was about 25 years ago in a small town speed trap.  I went to court thinking they'd offer me one of those broken taillight plea bargains, but there was a new DA who had eliminated those deals.  It was a pricey ticket so I figured I had nothing to lose by pleading not guilty and scheduling a court date.

I was a member of the National Motorists Association, and back in those early internet days they rented you a box full of books on defending a ticket in court.  It was a lot of reading, but one book explained that most DAs expect you to challenge the radar and will have a script prepared by the radar manufacturer.  It said if you challenged something else you might catch them off guard and win.  It also said if you had a well researched case the judge might respect that and give you the benefit of the doubt.  So I researched the state statutes and found that the speed zone had been under-posted by a bunch.

I showed up in court and sure enough, the DAs presented their case with a script just like I'd seen in the book.  I presented photos of the location where I was ticketed, and read the statute to the judge.  She agreed that limit had been set too low (it was a 'business district' with no businesses) and declared me not guilty.  As I was leaving the DAs came up and congratulated me, which was kind of cool.  I don't know if my case had anything to do with it, but a few months later I noticed that the speed limit in that area had been raised.

[Serk]

Ya'll need to step it up.... Kali's first ever speeding ticket was for doing 97 in a 65 (I think)....


....IN A KIA!!!!!!

[Jess from VA]

Ya'll need to step it up.... Kali's first ever speeding ticket was for doing 97 in a 65 (I think)....


....IN A KIA!!!!!!

Priceless!   

Although, assuming she's on your ins policy it may not be exactly priceless. 

In VA (and others) new drivers get one like that, they lose their license until... (I dunno) 42?   

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

Ya'll need to step it up.... Kali's first ever speeding ticket was for doing 97 in a 65 (I think)....


....IN A KIA!!!!!!

Hey! My first ticket was for doing 97 also, but it was in a 45 MPH zone   . Officer less than amused. Instead of being asked if I knew how fast I was going, he asked how fast I thought I could take the corners up ahead. Wise arse buddy in the passenger seat spouts off "110, easy". Damn near went to jail for that one.

Of course, that was before Kali was born, but I digress...

[cookiedough]

Ya'll need to step it up.... Kali's first ever speeding ticket was for doing 97 in a 65 (I think)....


....IN A KIA!!!!!!

1st, so assume there was a 2nd?   

[Jess from VA]

My first car (at 16) was a 60hp Karmann Ghia VW.

When I had a copper turn around and come after me, I had to use cunning not speed.

I knew the subdivisions better than he did.  I just had to hope the people who owned the home I hid behind didn't come out and run me off until the cop got tired of looking for me.  

Improvise, adapt, overcome.    

[JimmyG]

Oooooo Jess, running ,hiding..... sounds like evading to me.  Priceless sometimes 

[POPS 57]

One of my first tickets was when i was sixteen going to school. I had a 1954 chev. with six in it and a power slide trans. It was for rapid acceleration  I laughed at the cop and said no way with this car. He did not laugh and handed me a ticket. When dad came home i showed him the ticket and he laughed    When he was done i told him i was going to fight it. This car could not even get out of it's own way. Dad told me to pay it and move on or that cop will make you his V.I.P. from now on.

[Rams]

I was reared in KS, was told that a certain percentage of traffic tickets went to local school boards.

I can't tell ya how many speeding tickets I've had in my life but, there are three schools on two libraries named after me.

Got my restricted license at the mature age of 14 and managed to not get any tickets before turning 16 but, within three months, I got three speeding tickets, was told to ask for Driver's Training if I wanted to keep my license.   So I did.   Got a speeding ticket on the road going to the required Driver's training.

Came home from Marine Corps Recruit Training, hadn't driven in 3+ months.   Borrowed mom's car (caused dad sold mine) and went to visit my sister and her new husband up in KC.   Got a speeding ticket on the way up there and another on the way home.

I really try to stay below the speed limit now, I've paid way too many fines.  

Rams

[Serk]

Ya'll need to step it up.... Kali's first ever speeding ticket was for doing 97 in a 65 (I think)....


....IN A KIA!!!!!!

1st, so assume there was a 2nd?   

Yes, 2nd one was 1 week before her 18th birthday, but it was "only" 56 in a 40, so she was able to defensive driving that one away.....

[Romeo]

Back when I was a youngster, I was heading home from work and trying to beat what looked like a bad storm coming my way. I was on my cb1000 and traveling somewhere north of 105mph when a sheriff appeared from around a curve up ahead, heading in the opposite direction. I laid on the brakes and managed to get her down to somewhere around 70 when he passed me and turned around.
He pulled me over shortly after and asked me if I knew how fast I was going. I told him no.
He said he clocked me at 85. At this point the good lord above stepped in and decided to get us both wet. That deputy smiled and told me to please slow down, he didn’t want to be scooping me up off the asphalt in the future. Let me off with a warning and we parted ways.

[Rams]

One more true story.

Was a young Lt in the Army but based only about a hundred miles from home.  Had been a member of a soft ball team prior to joining and was asked to come back and play when I could.

We were in a round robin tournament (every team plays every other team).   Regardless, we got done about 0200.   I had to lead PT at 0600.   So, I hopped on my KZ1000 and headed back to my residence.

Got about half way there, doing somewhere over 120 mph (not really sure) and saw the lights coming over the hill.  I knew he had me, I was between two little towns and didn't know the side roads there.

I hit the brakes and started slowing to pull over.   By the time he got turned around and got behind me, I was stopped with my license out waiting.

He walked up to me, shined his bright flash lights into my eyes blinding me.   He then saw my license out and ready and said, I don't need to see that, I just wanted to see what would go that frigg'n fast.  He didn't say frigg'n.   Turns out, he was a young deputy and a biker also.   Let me go but told me to keep it below the speed limit cause every LEO between there and Ft Riley would be on the look out for me.   Oh, he clocked me at 142 mph.    

Having paid the fines and learned a few things, I try to stay within acceptable limits of the posted speed.

Rams

[0leman]

Back in the dark ages when I was in college, I was coming back to school one night.  Myself and 2 other guys were driving a bit over the 50 mph speed limit, like maybe 80 or so.  We passed a Hwy Patrol vehicle coming at us.   Myself and one of the guys slammed on the brakes and turn on a section line road, gravel type, while he was out of sight.  WE turn off our lights and crept along while the LEO went by in pursuit of the third vehicle.  Got lucky.

After I got my first job, picked up a new slightly modified Camaro.   300 horses under the hood late 60's muscle car.   I was heading home one night when I went thru a town, well it had some 120 folks living there.  Didn't slow down the the recommended speed.   Saw the local LEO come out of a side street, driving a Suburban type vehicle with a bubble gum type light on top.  I dropped into 3rd gear and floored it.    Then 5 miles down the road dropped to speed limit incase he had called ahead.  Got lucky, not back up.

[Rams]

Not proud of this one but, once driving my 3800SC Fiero, I saw the LEO too late and knew he was gonna pull me over so, I did what I counsel others not to do, I floored it.   I won't say I out ran him, I saw him hit his lights and come out on the road but, he didn't stay behind me very long.   My guess is, he wasn't allowed to drive that fast and probably radioed ahead but, he had no idea of where I was headed.    Pulled into a friend's place and parked back behind his shop.   When he went by, he couldn't see my car.

I don't know how fast I was going, the speedo only went to 120 mph and it was pegged.   I admit it, that was stupid.   Wouldn't do it now for nothing and I still have that car.   The power to weight ratio for that Fiero and a Valkyrie are almost identical but, the Fiero has a higher top end, I think.
Doesn't really matter, I don't want or need to go that fast now.

Rams

[JimmyG]

A  friend of my sons got ticketed in Nashville for not having a mask on.  When the officer approached Steve, he asked where his mask was, Steve said, "please keep socially distanced from me". He got the ticket, he signed it and drew a middle finger sticking up to go along with his signature.  Now that's funny!
 

[G-Man]

Well, would ya lookie here...................................

A whole bunch of WHITE guys, you know, the privileged ones, discussing how not to be hassled during a traffic stop.

You sound like a bunch of Black people giving their children, THE TALK.

You see, the more alike we are, the more the Left has to divide us.  And when there's not enough hate an violence, they make it up because their appetite for it exceeds the demand.

[Serk]

Not proud of this one but, once driving my 3800SC Fiero

Heh, funny, one of my favorite stories happened in your arch nemesis, my 1988 MR2... Me and a buddy were driving from Red River New Mexico back to Dallas, I had the cruise control on at 110 somewhere in west Texas, Passport radar detector on full blast with my foot hovering over the brake pedal.

I'd read that (at the time) you had to maintain constant speed for 1/4 - 1/2 second for a radar to get a lock on your speed, and being in my early 20's had cat like reflexes to smash that brake pedal if the Passport chirped.

Crested a hill and BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP..... Hit the brake pedal hard. DPS coming the other way cut through the median and came after me. I didn't try to run, just slowed down and let him pull me over.

This DPS officer came straight out of central casting. West Texas cowboy swaggers up to my window "Son, the way you've been driving you must wanna talk to me so why don't ya' step outside that car and let's talk."

*Gulp* I'm boned.

"Would you like to see my insurance?"

"Son, the way you've been driving, in a car like this, you've got insurance, I don't need to see it."

Got a 20 minute lecture about speeding (He seemed to think my $8000 Toyota was some exotic Italian thing by the way he was talking), said I'd flown by an unmarked that tried to catch up to me but couldn't, etc. etc...

"Due to some atmospheric disturbances I wasn't able to get an exact reading on your speed, so I'm gonna give you a warning. But I'm gonna call ahead to every department between here and (Looks down at my license) Garland, and if you so much as go 1 MPH over the limit, you WILL get nailed for it."

Yes sir, thank you sir, I'll be careful sir.

Set cruise control AT the speed limit the whole rest of the drive home.

[F6Dave]

In the 80s I worked for Texaco, and there was this older engineer who loved fast cars.  He had a 911-S at the time, and had owned and XKE before that.  They were pretty fast cars for the day.  Whenever we talk about travelling and I mentioned a town I'd been too, he'd reply 'I got a ticket there once'.  He had countless stories.

[old2soon]

      Serk-try West Texas in a big truck that will NOT hit a lick over 65 M P H.  RIDE SAFE.

[Jess from VA]

This DPS officer came straight out of central casting. West Texas cowboy swaggers up to my window

I think the same guy got me (though there's probably a lot of those guys).

Getting out of the service, driving from Riverside CA to Fairfax VA, loaded to the gills El Camino SS with camper shell (two cats in back) (think the Clampetts of Beverly Hills), coming up from El Paso.  It's like a wasteland crossing there, very few cars or anything, so I'm cranking 100 or so.  I remind the wife again to look for cops, and she's like... I think there might have been one on that overpass back there.  Now you tell me.

Rearview shows copper lights way back on the horizon, I look again at the speedo and back off another 10, look back up and he's right behind me (crap what the heck is he driving?).

Huge dude, huge white stetson hat, sunglasses, big revolver.  His car clearly has a cam and headers and is thumping away behind me.  He's not angry at all, and I explain I'm just out of service heading to VA for a new job.  He says he has me over 100, but will give me a break to 10 over.  I thank him profusely.  I ask if this is one of those deals where I have to follow him to town to pay now.  He asks, you are going to pay aren't you?  Of course I'll pay sir.  OK, then no need to go to town.

I ask if I can get out and look his car over.  This makes him happy.  I even get him to pop the hood.  This is NOT your standard police unit (more like a NASCAR unit).  

Driving across TX southwest to northeast is longer than any other state crossing I ever made.

Four LONG days cross country, and I get pulled over after another 12 hour day in VA, 10 miles from my new home.  Same story.  Guy says welcome to VA, and no ticket. (Jan 1993)

Something I've noticed in my driving habits my whole life:  No matter how good my intentions and self discipline, when driving all day long on freeways, I lose my patience near the end of the day, and stand on the gas.  Cruise control is my friend.