Question for the group

[six2go #152]

Several times we have a member who will contemplate or actually make the move to buy a BMW motorcycle. Every time this comes up, he(or she) will be warned about the cost of ownership of the BMW. Does anyone actually know first hand about this and if it is really that much more than our bikes?

Then main thing brought up is the cost of shop time for maintenance. I know that as a group the Valkyries do not go to the dealers for much of anything. However, what's to say that BMW owners can't learn to work on and do maint. as most Valkyrie owners do?

If a Valkyrie owner would have his bike serviced "as per the schedule" at a dealer and a BMW owner would do the same, would there be that much difference? If you look at the service schedule for the Valkyrie, there is something required every 4000 miles. Now if you went to the dealer for all of that, it would get expensive. I'm talking about servicing both brands "by the book" by the dealer.

I owned a BMW prior to the Valk and I don't recall it being that labor intensive. I am now riding an F6B and I depend more on my dealer than I did on the Valk, partly because of all the tupperware that needs to be removed I'm afraid I'll break something, and the linked brake system is not really user friendly to bleed and you have to be a contortionist to access the bleed nipple for the clutch.

So for conversation, if the dealer is used for all scheduled maint., is there a huge difference in ownership costs?

[hubcapsc]

I think if you could get a dealer do "good" maintenance on a Valkyrie
it would/should cost plenty. Imagine if instead of slapping a wheel on and
off to get a new tire you found a dealer that would clean up the
splines, properly relube them, pull the final and drive shaft, clean
and relube that and then put it all back together right? Install
new brake pads using some methodology other than jamb in
the old dirty pistons and call it good.

$200 labor for changing a tire ? ! ? ! I WANT TO SPEAK TO
THE MANAGER!!!! 

-Mike

[AwesomeDad]

Lol guess I may have sparked this with my post. I did just buy my first BMW. I’ve been riding for about 30years more if you count my trail bike time. This will make my 9th bike. I’ve had different makes and models. As most I research a lot before purchase. I’m usually on the forums years before actual ownership. As an example I joined the BMW boards when the R1150RT and K1200LT were relatively new models. I do a lot of my own maintenance and the BMW will be no different. The big ticket items that I don’t have the tools or time for will go to the dealer.
Here’s an example between a concours 14 I had and the K1600B valve adjustments.
Concours just the valves 800 parts and labor.
K1600B 18000K mile service which includes the valves 1100
Now on both forums people have cut the cost by doing as much of the normal stuff themselves and only having the shop do the heavy lifting. The BMW could be done for 600 just the valves...
As with anything you really only hear the bad stuff on the forums.
People hear BMW and immediately jump on dealer network, final drive failures and recalls.
I’m not defending BMW this is my first one and may very well be my last one only time will tell, but there’s riders putting 100’s of thousands of miles on them just the same as the other brands.
But I will admit this is the first bike I’ve owned that the rear wheel has to come off to do the final drive oil and also has 2 drain plugs for the engine oil one on the pan and internal on the crank case...

JJ

[Valker]

I've owned several BMWs. Are they expensive to service? Isn't everything? My local shop (not a dealer) charges $100/hour shop time. I've checked around here, and that is right in the middle of what all the shops charge. I know the owner here, and he is barely making it at $100/hr. If you CAN do your own maintenance on either bike, neither is very expensive. Newer BMWs ARE way more electronically complex than out Valks. They are equivalent to a new GoldWing. Both are a bit beyond my comfort level of mechanical work except for maintenance type stuff. I've always said that BMW has the finest electronics in the world, until they break. Then they simply have the most expensive electronics on Earth. Several of my friends have gotten the six cylinder 1600 BMWs. None are happy with them after they get to be out of warranty. Are the parts more expensive than Hondas? Maybe a bit. I work on my own Valkyries, but I used to work on my BMWs also.

[Jess from VA]

This discussion reminds me my first (and only) front wheel drive Lincoln.

It was a very nice car, the nicest one I'll ever own.

But the dealer cost was higher than anything I'd ever experienced. (some stuff you could go to anyone, but some stuff you really needed the dealer)

The digital everything kept screwing up, and you can't pass the inspection (or drive it) without it being good, so you have to fix it.  Bring money.  Airbag suspension, bring $3K.

About the 5th year of ownership, the repairs were about equal to it's value (if it didn't need the repairs).


But I'm a firm believer in getting whatever you want, and can afford.  (without payments)

This includes wives.  Except there's no dealer network (or insurance either), and you're on your own.  

[Beardo]

The valve job is more expensive and more frequent on the 1600 Beemer, if I remember correctly. I also remember hearing that you needed to take it to the dealer to have your maintenance minder reset when you change your oil, or buy the tool to reset it yourself.

And yeah, I’ve got an air filter replacement coming up on my 18 Wing...I won’t even attempt it. It’s going to the dealer. As it will for the valves when they’re due. I’ll handle oil changes, spark plugs, final drive oil, etc myself.

If you’re spending over $30K on a bike, I guess it doesn’t really matter, odds are you’re going to take it to the dealer whenever it needs it. If you have a dealer close by and you like how the beemers ride, I’m sure they’re great bikes. More power than the Wings for sure, although it comes at a higher rpm.  

[AwesomeDad]

The valve job is more expensive and more frequent on the 1600 Beemer, if I remember correctly. I also remember hearing that you needed to take it to the dealer to have your maintenance minder reset when you change your oil, or buy the tool to reset it yourself.

And yeah, I’ve got an air filter replacement coming up on my 18 Wing...I won’t even attempt it. It’s going to the dealer. As it will for the valves when they’re due. I’ll handle oil changes, spark plugs, final drive oil, etc myself.

If you’re spending over $30K on a bike, I guess it doesn’t really matter, odds are you’re going to take it to the dealer whenever it needs it. If you have a dealer close by and you like how the beemers ride, I’m sure they’re great bikes. More power than the Wings for sure, although it comes at a higher rpm.  

K bikes are 18K intervals on the valves and yes there’s the GS-911 you can buy to reset your maintenance reminders etc.
My issue with anything that has wheels is how they are forcing you to take it to the dealer because now special tools or machines are needed.
I can’t do the brakes on my VW because a machine is needed to flush the system, even called a few shops and they couldn’t do only the dealer smh....

[98valk]

most recalls of all makes at 562.

http://www.arfc.org/motorcycles/

replacements parts cost are very high.

need to replace the clutch?, the back half of the motorcycle of the twins has to be removed along with the transmission.

OSS owns one he can provide good ownership info.

[AwesomeDad]

most recalls of all makes at 562.

http://www.arfc.org/motorcycles/

replacements parts cost are very high.

need to replace the clutch?, the back half of the motorcycle of the twins has to be removed along with the transmission.

OSS owns one he can provide good ownership info.

On the surface yes that’s a lot, but Honda, Yamaha, triumph and Kawasaki are north of 300 almost 400.
You’d have to have a break down of actual problems vs possible problems and safety driven vs preventative etc...
BMW’S latest was brakes and transmission in both cases the issues could have been chalked up to flukes and repaired but they decided to do a recall and replaced the items on all bikes even if there wasn’t an issue. Harley has had a few M8 motors grenade fixed under warranty and they are still pumping out those motors....

JJ

[_Sheffjs_]

Remove the plastic I say, get involved, we did with the Valks. I just picked up a 2016 wing with 1900 miles.   Thankfully I have Honda blood, never did I feel the BMW need. Don’t get me wrong, I have ridden a few, nice display and now back to Honda.   

[Dusty]

 I've got  both bikes and they are comparable for costs.  I do my own maintenance  so bought a GS-911 tool to access the BMW's computer.  Some parts for both bikes are stupid expensive and other parts are not. Tires and oil and filters all cost the same.

Dusty

[Beardo]

I've got  both bikes and they are comparable for costs.  I do my own maintenance  so bought a GS-911 tool to access the BMW's computer.  Some parts for both bikes are stupid expensive and other parts are not. Tires and oil and filters all cost the same.

Dusty

Nice to talk to someone who has both. I’ve read the Wing might be a better 2-up tourer with more torque down low and the 1600 is more of a high revving big sport tourer. Accurate?

[Dusty]

I've got  both bikes and they are comparable for costs.  I do my own maintenance  so bought a GS-911 tool to access the BMW's computer.  Some parts for both bikes are stupid expensive and other parts are not. Tires and oil and filters all cost the same.

Dusty

Nice to talk to someone who has both. I’ve read the Wing might be a better 2-up tourer with more torque down low and the 1600 is more of a high revving big sport tourer. Accurate?

 Sorry to mislead Beardo. My both bikes is a BMW K1200 R Sport and Honda Valkyrie Interstate. I was replying to the original question of costs between BMW and Honda.

 The new bikes are out of my price range.  My BMW is a lot lighter than my Interstate so not a fair comparison. The K1600 piques my interest but have so far resisted test driving one.



Dusty

[Oss]

98Valk    I have cut costs of BMW ownership because I barter service on my r1150rtp

over 8 yrs ago (wow) I bought the 04 sight unseen for around 5k plus 500 to ship here from Santa Monica and shortly after around 36k on it I knew it needed slave cylinder/clutch and replace tires and brakes    So it really cost me nothing.  We do not have a dealer close by so I went to an independent mechanic who needed a lawyer to deal with an issue over his head.   I won his case but a few years later he moved back to the D.Rep.
At 76k I had a client adjust valves, battery, air cleaner/plugs and change front tire to the best tire out there again no out of pocket cost  The bike runs quiet and smooth.

No comparison between the bikes, the bmw flat out      out performs the Valk in twisties and in the city with its ABS and narrow and lighter footprint   Cant split ny lanes on a Valk but easy on the police bike and it is almost 200 lbs lighter  I am a much less adventurous person on my Valk riding in the mountains but that is just me.  I know others can ride circles around me and that is ok

But NO WAY IN HELL I would take it on a trip of more than 2 hrs,  I have 3 foot positions on the valk and also a RussellDayLongseat so comfort of Valk is #1 and if I am in heavy wind #1

The BMW though is the bike to ride in the rain and slippery pavement strips  Valk's E3 tires do not inspire confidence in the rain. I have a taxi tire in basement waiting for its turn to be mounted in another year when I finally wear out that E3 unless I get another 200 series Exedra.  I do not enjoy the car tires after trying 2 of them

Apples and Oranges they do different things well

My local dealer charges an arm and a leg for anything taking tire off or rear spline adj figure 400+

BigBF also charged for his services, but he was 100% true great mechanic and honest as day is long and was my friend
and he did magic on my Valk every time he touched it

Please help his fund if you can  

[Robert]

You are not really comparing apples to apples here except maybe for the Goldwing. The electronic parts on the BMW are expensive, cannot be coded except by the factory scanner and the parts are way more expensive. They are usually only factory available parts and no aftermarket parts can work. If you want to buy used parts then you are out of luck on the BMW but the Honda has much available. The cost of Labor and who does the work is also a factor. On the Hondas they can be serviced by most motorcycle repair shops and while some repairs can be done with the BMW by most shops not all can be done. The labor rates at BMW are over 200 an hour a major difference in comparison to motorcycle shops.

The electronic equipment on the BMW and Honda are different also. It goes with the philosophy of the companies and how they look at the owners and also. Honda's can be serviced and replace parts by most home mechanics or motorcycle shop mechanics. The parts in the Valks do not need any coding and can be swapped out and diagnosed without an issue and in most cases without a scanner. BMW's require a scanner to do any of these and if you have to replace a part its only available from BMW and it requires coding, not just code clearing or maintenance interval reset tool. It requires the factory BMW scan tool to actually program the part to work on the bike.

You may not be able to buy the part from the dealer either in any case and replace it yourself, if it comes to major electronic items since they have to be coded and the dealer will not give access to this to any owner/tech. So that means you are required to bring your bike or car to the dealer to have the work done regardless. So not only frequency of repair but down time now play a factor since most BMW dealers do not have parts or mechanics dedicated to motorcycles.

This one thing is vastly different than Hondas. It makes major repairs next to impossible for the average home mechanic.

Bleeding the brakes is also not possible on the BMW if you do it correctly without a scan tool either, since it requires a scan tool to activate the ABS module to pump the brakes.

On the 1500 or the 1800 Valk no scan tool is needed to access codes or work on the bike at all, most are mechanical parts and even the electric parts are plug and play and most Wings are the same way. The 1500 is old school and does not require any scanner to work on but the 1800 up has blink codes to tell you what is wrong with the bike and could be repaired on the road if you broke down. This is true with most except possibly the newest Wing.

The true cost and idea of a motorcycle has changed with the BMW. The Valk can sit in the garage go dead and later you throw a battery in it or jump it and start it up. Except for the carbs you should not have an issue and this is not so with the BMW.

So when you look at maintenance costs for the average Joe that buys a bike rides not much and does not keep his bike a long time then you are not really comparing apples to apples. For the last almost 20 years I have had my Valks and done my own maintenance and if they sit for a time or I get on one day and go for a ride, I know years down the line that I can use them any way I want. The longevity of some of the newer bikes is in question along with the way motorcycles are used.

Dont get me wrong I like the BMW, I almost bought one, they are great bikes. But if you keep your bikes forever or you like to repair your own bike. Or regardless of changing times always want your bike to work without the support of the factory or worrying about obsolete parts then the BMW may not be the right bike for you.

My 1800 Valk has most of the modern conveniences that make riding fun and safe, I can repair it without a scan tool, it handles great, has great power and does well in the rain and its already 7 years old and I dont worry about parts since its a Wing and I dont worry about it sitting. But I can go and start it and ride it anywhere I want from local ride to across country and not worry about getting there or starting. I dont worry about longevity or parts since they are readily available. I hope to have it till the day I pass and hope to be able to ride it that long also but I would not even have that thought with the BMW.

That last thought is the one that really makes it for me and why you are not comparing apples to apples.