Rubbing tire

[TrapperAH1G]

Can't believe I had almost finished this post when I accidently exited the site!  Damn!

Anyway:  2000 Std with bags and tour pack.  Just installed 12.5" 440 shocks, standard spring rate.  Running 185/75-16 CT at 38 psi.  Riding 2 up weight is about 320 more.

Shocks have 10 turns, softest to hardest.  Had them at mid point.  We take off and bottom out at the end of the drive.  Stop and move the shocks to 8 turns.  Quarter mile and we both are smelling burning rubber.  Stop and crank them all the way to stiffest spring rate.  Still getting occasional whiffs of rubber.  Take her to the house.  The right side of the tire has a rub mark half way down the right sidewall, a little more than an inch wide.

No lights on the rear now.  When we bottomed if pulled the harness connector apart.  Luckily, didn't break it so I was able to reconnect and tuck it behind the "brace"  at the center of the lip on the front piece of the rear fender.

Today I did not nut cage mod.  NO problem.  BUT, when reintalling, I noticed there's a lip on the front piece of the rear fender that sticks out more than the carriage head bolt.  Put my regular bolt in and the lip is still just a bit "higher" in the wheel well.  Okay....(?).  Put it all back together and tried again.  Not much difference, still rubbing.  Switched shocks.  Put on my Showa OEM shocks from my vt1100 Tourer, 12.5's.  Better, but have to run them at the top setting, 5, in order not to rub.  Guess I'll go back to my stock shocks.

Don't understand how others can run wider tires and not have issues.  My 185/75 is a little over an inch taller than a 206/60.  but the 205 is .8" wider.  With the rubbing so far down the side wall it seems the wider tire would have more of an issue.

Also, don't understand the washer shim mod......the fender is on the inside of the frame rail, if I place washers between the fender and the rail, it'll move the fender IN, not out?

Comments?  Suggestions?  Really wanted to lower it just a bit. 

Thanks

[vanagon40]

. . . don't understand the washer shim mod......the fender is on the inside of the frame rail, if I place washers between the fender and the rail, it'll move the fender IN, not out? . . .

For the washer mod, place the washer(s) under the fender rail at the location of the center bolt (bolt 11 in the diagram below). That will pull the rear section of the fender rail away from the tire.

[h13man]

Well it definitely sounds like your shocks are worn for sure but the 1" increase in dia. and 1/4" wider for sure isn't helping much. I'd say your wire passage in the fender is definitely smashed for sure do to the tire being taller and what's sounding like a worn shock situation.

If on hand if you do change the shocks, get some Red Eye shock bushings.

https://redeye.ecrater.com/p/18385698/rear-shock-bushing-kit-ver-2

[The emperor has no clothes]

Can't believe I had almost finished this post when I accidently exited the site!  Damn!

Anyway:  2000 Std with bags and tour pack.  Just installed 12.5" 440 shocks, standard spring rate.  Running 185/75-16 CT at 38 psi.  Riding 2 up weight is about 320 more.

Shocks have 10 turns, softest to hardest.  Had them at mid point.  We take off and bottom out at the end of the drive.  Stop and move the shocks to 8 turns.  Quarter mile and we both are smelling burning rubber.  Stop and crank them all the way to stiffest spring rate.  Still getting occasional whiffs of rubber.  Take her to the house.  The right side of the tire has a rub mark half way down the right sidewall, a little more than an inch wide.

No lights on the rear now.  When we bottomed if pulled the harness connector apart.  Luckily, didn't break it so I was able to reconnect and tuck it behind the "brace"  at the center of the lip on the front piece of the rear fender.

Today I did not nut cage mod.  NO problem.  BUT, when reintalling, I noticed there's a lip on the front piece of the rear fender that sticks out more than the carriage head bolt.  Put my regular bolt in and the lip is still just a bit "higher" in the wheel well.  Okay....(?).  Put it all back together and tried again.  Not much difference, still rubbing.  Switched shocks.  Put on my Showa OEM shocks from my vt1100 Tourer, 12.5's.  Better, but have to run them at the top setting, 5, in order not to rub.  Guess I'll go back to my stock shocks.

Don't understand how others can run wider tires and not have issues.  My 185/75 is a little over an inch taller than a 206/60.  but the 205 is .8" wider.  With the rubbing so far down the side wall it seems the wider tire would have more of an issue.

Also, don't understand the washer shim mod......the fender is on the inside of the frame rail, if I place washers between the fender and the rail, it'll move the fender IN, not out?

Comments?  Suggestions?  Really wanted to lower it just a bit. 

Thanks

Having a tire 1” taller than stock and shocks half an inch shorter than stock, just seems counter productive. If your desire is to lower the bike some, I think you need to change tires.

[TrapperAH1G]

I wanted the taller tire to reduce revs on freeway.  Probably 50% of my driving is on that, single, never 2 up.  On back roads, I ride 2 up less than 10% and single the rest.  I thought I could offset the 1/2" increase in "leg length" by using shorter shocks, bringing it close to original seat height.

I can understand the height causing an issue with under fender rub, but still puzzled about the sidewall issue.  I have just a bit less than 3/8" clearance from the tire to the swingarm.  Someone running a195/65 should have about the same, but anyone using 205/60 would have almost no clearance.  185/75 is 1/2" wider than stock, 205/60 is 1" wider, so at least 1/4" closer to the swingarm and side of fenders.
Should have more of a rubbing issue than I do?

Maybe 38 psi is too low.  I'll bump it to 40 and see how that changes rubbing and handling.  Still have the 1100 shocks on.  If it still rubs, I'll reinstall stock units.

[Valker]

I wanted the taller tire to reduce revs on freeway.  Probably 50% of my driving is on that, single, never 2 up.  On back roads, I ride 2 up less than 10% and single the rest.  I thought I could offset the 1/2" increase in "leg length" by using shorter shocks, bringing it close to original seat height.

I can understand the height causing an issue with under fender rub, but still puzzled about the sidewall issue.  I have just a bit less than 3/8" clearance from the tire to the swingarm.  Someone running a195/65 should have about the same, but anyone using 205/60 would have almost no clearance.  185/75 is 1/2" wider than stock, 205/60 is 1" wider, so at least 1/4" closer to the swingarm and side of fenders.
Should have more of a rubbing issue than I do?

Maybe 38 psi is too low.  I'll bump it to 40 and see how that changes rubbing and handling.  Still have the 1100 shocks on.  If it still rubs, I'll reinstall stock units.

I run the 205. There is enough room between the sidewall and swingarm on the shaft side to slip a business card only. It NEVER rubs as the sidewall doesn't spread any at all. My only rubbing has been the nut cage-I fixed that. I also only run between 26-28 psi. I've run Darkside on my Valks (three of them) for about 175,000 miles total.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I wanted the taller tire to reduce revs on freeway.  Probably 50% of my driving is on that, single, never 2 up.  On back roads, I ride 2 up less than 10% and single the rest.  I thought I could offset the 1/2" increase in "leg length" by using shorter shocks, bringing it close to original seat height.

I can understand the height causing an issue with under fender rub, but still puzzled about the sidewall issue.  I have just a bit less than 3/8" clearance from the tire to the swingarm.  Someone running a195/65 should have about the same, but anyone using 205/60 would have almost no clearance.  185/75 is 1/2" wider than stock, 205/60 is 1" wider, so at least 1/4" closer to the swingarm and side of fenders.
Should have more of a rubbing issue than I do?

Maybe 38 psi is too low.  I'll bump it to 40 and see how that changes rubbing and handling.  Still have the 1100 shocks on.  If it still rubs, I'll reinstall stock units.

There are just a lot of variables concerning tire rub. I’ve not run the 185/75. 205/60’s and 65’s, 195/60’s and 65’s, and of course the OEM. Never had nutcage problems, just removed them because they were a pain to reinstall.  Only had a slight rub once on a Nexen 205/65. I think a couple more psi cured it. Can you tell for sure where the rubbing is occurring ? It seems to me the 185/75 in combination with lower shocks is creating the problem.

[TrapperAH1G]

If you're looking at the sidewall, the rub mark is a ring almost exactly in the center of the sidewall, all the way around.  The mark is just a little over an inch wide.  The fact that the mark is "solid" all the way around the tire led me to think it might be the swingarm.  The nut cage was above the tire and would have to come down over 3" to make that consistent mark.

I rode solo today with the Tourer shocks, after bumping psi to 40.  Put yellow chalk on the mark all the way around the tire.  On the ride, stood and bounced the bike up and down, rode over bumps and holes, didn't rub any chalk off.  Tomorrow, will get the wife on the back and try again.

 

[Valker]

If you're looking at the sidewall, the rub mark is a ring almost exactly in the center of the sidewall, all the way around.  The mark is just a little over an inch wide.  The fact that the mark is "solid" all the way around the tire led me to think it might be the swingarm.  The nut cage was above the tire and would have to come down over 3" to make that consistent mark.

I rode solo today with the Tourer shocks, after bumping psi to 40.  Put yellow chalk on the mark all the way around the tire.  On the ride, stood and bounced the bike up and down, rode over bumps and holes, didn't rub any chalk off.  Tomorrow, will get the wife on the back and try again.

 

That is EXACTLY where and how mine rubbed with the nut cage being the culprit.

[Skinhead]

Smear a thin coating of grease on the sidewall where the rub marks are, and then go for a short ride and duplicate the conditions where the rub occurs.  Then return home and look for where the grease accumulated on the fender.  You may have to remove the wheel to find it.

[TrapperAH1G]

Problem seems to have been solved.  The the nut cage mod, have VT1100T 12.5 shocks mounted.  Rode  30, miles, 2 up at setting 5 today, yellow chalk all around the rub mark.  Rode good and bad roads, stood and bounced the bike, etc.......no rub marks.  Rode another 30 miles solo, 20 at setting 3 and 10 at setting 2, no rub marks.  Think I'm good to go.  ON TO OTHER PROJECTS!  Thanks for the suggestions & comments.

Ride safe, stay healthy...conceal carry!