Insanity at my hometown campus...

[Valkorado]

and alma mater.  My dad taught here, PhD Biology.  He always disliked the liberal part of liberal arts.

If it's happening in our dinky little Mayberry university, it's epidemic.

It's national, it's getting worse and it's disgusting.  If this is the mindset of the "professors", is it any wonder we live in a PC cancel culture?

I give the current woke staff here an A for indoctrination.  

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/medical/can-university-campuses-ever-be-a-bulwark-against-cancel-culture/vi-BB1fkV2n

I almost put this into the P&M thread, if it develops into needing relocation there admins feel free to do so.

[Serk]

I've been actively encouraging my about to graduate high school spawn to NOT blindly go to college, unless there's a specific career she wants to pursue with a specific college requirement...

It's absolutely insane, sadly.....

[The emperor has no clothes]

I've been actively encouraging my about to graduate high school spawn to NOT blindly go to college, unless there's a specific career she wants to pursue with a specific college requirement...

It's absolutely insane, sadly.....

I have no college credit, much less a degree. Most of my family is the same. My brother and my daughter both have Associates. But, I am thinking constantly about the route my grandson should take. He should have near 100k that we have saved for his college. He is very smart and eager, I know he will do well. But, I have no good frame of reference to guide him. I have always assumed that a degree in Engineering would set a person up pretty well ? I’d appreciate others thoughts on college.

[hubcapsc]

A good engineering degree 

A BS in gender studies 

-Mike

[Serk]

I'm the first in my family to NOT have a bachelors degree, and am making more than any of them...

My dad has a masters.... he drove a truck for 30 years and made more than 3 levels of management above him.

My spousal unit has a master's, if her current interview goes well she'll make 3-5 times more than I do, but she's in a very specialized field.

If someone wants a degree just because? No.... Go to a trade school and do a hell of a lot better.

If someone had their sights on a specific career that requires a degree? Than do it. But insulate them as best you can against the wokeness that had inflitrated  college campuses in the last few years.

[GiG]

A good engineering degree 

A BS in gender studies 

-Mike

The problem is, while pursuing a good engineering degree, they will force you to take liberal arts “electives “ to ensure zombie indoctrination 

[Valkorado]

I've been actively encouraging my about to graduate high school spawn to NOT blindly go to college, unless there's a specific career she wants to pursue with a specific college requirement...

It's absolutely insane, sadly.....

I have no college credit, much less a degree. Most of my family is the same. My brother and my daughter both have Associates. But, I am thinking constantly about the route my grandson should take. He should have near 100k that we have saved for his college. He is very smart and eager, I know he will do well. But, I have no good frame of reference to guide him. I have always assumed that a degree in Engineering would set a person up pretty well ? I’d appreciate others thoughts on college.

As Serk said, those with a definite career path can get something out of a liberal arts college -- it can be a feasible stepping stone to a specialized higher degree.  Problem is, there are "required" "liberal" filler courses that lean very far fom such paths.  I'm afraid many serious, accomplished students are falling victim to indoctrination on a grand scale.  I'd be happy if college students could read and put together a grammatically correct sentence.  Lost arts to liberal arts.

When I was working as an employment counselor I was encouraging trade,  technical and engineering schools.  When thinking outside the box, it doesn't have to be boring.  I sent a young lady to a to mixing board sound engineering school in  Chillicothe, Ohio.  Last I heard she was making good money in the Big Easy as a professional sound and recording engineer, meeting all the big name musicians.

[hubcapsc]

A good engineering degree 

A BS in gender studies 

-Mike

The problem is, while pursuing a good engineering degree, they will force you to take liberal arts “electives “ to ensure zombie indoctrination 

I remember having to take "Marriage and Family Living"... I'm sure it is worse now...

-Mike

[Farside]

I've been actively encouraging my about to graduate high school spawn to NOT blindly go to college, unless there's a specific career she wants to pursue with a specific college requirement...

It's absolutely insane, sadly.....

I have no college credit, much less a degree. Most of my family is the same. My brother and my daughter both have Associates. But, I am thinking constantly about the route my grandson should take. He should have near 100k that we have saved for his college. He is very smart and eager, I know he will do well. But, I have no good frame of reference to guide him. I have always assumed that a degree in Engineering would set a person up pretty well ? I’d appreciate others thoughts on college.

A good engineering degree is great to achieve. It can take you in several different directions. My son got a double Phd out of NC State. He now works out of Santa Barbara for a Ag. company and loves it. He didn't grow up in a Liberal house but thru his studies like his twin sister has been drinking the cool-aid.

[Valker]

A GREAT present to give a child, when they graduate from most universities, would be to send them on at least a month long holiday to a socialist country. They probably won't actually die, but they might appreciate what this country has.

[Jess from VA]

Even back in the early 70's (when I went), the basic 4-yr bachelors degree (in anything), had nearly 2 (of 4) years in what was called prerequisite core curricula, that everyone had to take to earn a BS or BA.  The history, math, earth science, basic writing skills, literature courses were good.  The psychology, sociology, introduction to theater and a few others were not good.  

I am not a fan of "Liberal Arts," but people who expect to graduate with a BA/BS, need to be able to read, write and speak the English language and think logically, and I don't know what they got in K-12 (I got all that in K-12, but my study habits needed big improvement).

I will never forget having a sociology professor, who taught what I (now) consider woke methodology in the classroom, and he was pretty militant about it.  He expected you to adopt and believe his liberal thinking pattern, and if you fought him or disagreed in any way, he singled you out for bad grades and a hard time.  Back then, I was more liberal (in the classic sense, not the SJW-woke, lockstep sense), and I really hated that guy.  But I shot for 4.0 grades at all times, and I had to bite my tongue and write my papers and take his (essay) tests the way he wanted.  Still, my only B my sophomore year (because I gave him lip and resistance the first few weeks before I learned the score).  I cannot even imagine what it would have been like to have had dozens of courses like that.

I suppose most people know this, but since most 4-year colleges have (almost) two years of required courses (with a few choices between A and B this, and C and D that), the smart money sends their kids to community college for 2 years (while living at home), which serves to save money and to develop study habits, and show they are actually serious about school.  But it is imperative that you do the legwork to make sure that most (if not all) of those courses are properly accepted at the 4-year school they are aiming at transferring to, to get their bachelors degree.  If they show excellent progress at CC.

Even though I always tested higher in math than verbal (SAT, ACT, yada)(tested high in both), I always hated math, and it was my only C in undergrad (and still took up almost half my homework time for the semester).  Much to my engineer dad's chagrin.

When my parents went to state university, it was $50 for tuition for a full time semester.  When I went, it was $300 a semester (and law school went to $1000 a semester, which was unbelievable at the time).

At the prices today, I think only rich people or numbnuts spend what it takes to pursue some general liberal arts 4yr degree where the only job you can get is teacher (in college; in K-12, you'll need a 5th year to get a teaching certificate with practice teaching).

When I got out of military service and transferred to USDVA, I worked with a number of new grad lawyers who owed $100K for their bachelors degree, and another $100K for their law degree.  That used to buy a pretty nice house.  But with those loan payments, they could not afford a house (or a decent car)... for a long time.

I would not do what I did back then again, today.  By the time I got out of school (with only $5K in debt), my younger brother had already completed his carpentry journeyman ticket and had his first home.  With his 60% hearing loss, he always did poorly in school, and was nearly held back twice in grade school.  But he became the most sought after (industrial) union carpenter foreman in the state of MI, he always brought his own handpicked crew (no drugs or alcohol) with him (breaking rules to do so), and always served as both foreman and shop steward, which cut way down on any jobsite BS.  But by the time he retired himself, the amount of woke OSHA, safety fanatic, neon clothing job requirements had him ready to quit early.  (Just leave me and my people alone, and we'll do the job under time and under budget with no injuries..... NO WAY Jose!!)  Just like government, those safety inspectors have to do something to make it look like they are important, and worth their paychecks.

He was a greater success than I ever was.    

[Jersey mike]

I've been actively encouraging my about to graduate high school spawn to NOT blindly go to college, unless there's a specific career she wants to pursue with a specific college requirement...

It's absolutely insane, sadly.....

I have no college credit, much less a degree. Most of my family is the same. My brother and my daughter both have Associates. But, I am thinking constantly about the route my grandson should take. He should have near 100k that we have saved for his college. He is very smart and eager, I know he will do well. But, I have no good frame of reference to guide him. I have always assumed that a degree in Engineering would set a person up pretty well ? I’d appreciate others thoughts on college.

This is a difficult question to answer. My advice to them was stick,to your strengths and build on your weaknesses or lightly test the waters in other courses. My kids are all incredibly smart, much smarter than I am, all excel in math and science but different areas. My son breezed through many different areas of physics and other mathematics and graduated with a degree in bio-medical engineering and got a job almost immediately with the FDA in cardiac research. During a tour of John’s Hopkins he spoke with a man at great lengths, when the conversation was over the man told him if he ever wanted to change jobs to call him and handed him his card, he was the head of cardiology research at the hospital.

In college he was very interested in the field of prosthetic’s and still has that interest. I told him to keep on top of his education and get a masters and keep moving up. In his field he’ll probably need the alphabet of degrees as he moves up.

My daughter who excelled in biology, calculus and other math decided against my advice to get a degree in Environmental Science and can’t find work. She may look to teach biology and math.

My youngest who is finishing up her junior year in college is an advanced chem major and breezing through those courses. She has her on on something in the medical field, seems passionate about speech pathology or something along those lines but still hasn’t committed to a path.  Last week she asked me if I thought she’d make a good attorney, the way she loves to argue a point and can present an argument backed with facts is amazing, she’s cool and calculating and has a retort always ready.

Being young and trying to decide on a career path isn’t easy. I’d say the same to any kid as I told my own, stick to and build your strengths and natural talents...math, history, grammar, reading and research...whatever comes easy to them and excel at that and build on their weaknesses and what piques their interest.

My daughter that chose Environmental Science would have been great in a lab doing research, she’s very detail oriented. She also would have excelled in accounting and tax law which suits her personality but she will also make a good teacher if she pursued that area.

All that being said kids need guidance and a path but ultimately the decision is theirs, we’re just here to help build a good foundation, a kick in the pants and moral support.

Good luck.

[Jess from VA]

Last week she asked me if I thought she’d make a good attorney

Talk her out of that right away!!!  

All big universities love having a law school because they can charge huge prices, and they only need a good library (unlike medical schools), and with computers maybe they don't even need libraries anymore.  The market for attorneys has been completely saturated for decades, and good jobs are hard to come by if you don't have a good rabbi or mentor to bring you along.  

Unless you are top 5% at Harvard, Yale, Stanford, yada.  Best of luck with that.

And I could not get into U of MI law school with a 3.79 Magna Cum Laude BS, because I was a white male.

EDIT: And females have outnumbered males in law schools for a number of years. (so that's no hook either)

[Rams]

Last week she asked me if I thought she’d make a good attorney

And I could not get into U of MI law school with a 3.79 Magna Cum Laude BS, because I was a white male. 

Jess,
We have the science.  That problem can be addressed. 

Rams   

[Robert]

Many have come so far off base that people are confused, the standards are gone.

[Serk]

A GREAT present to give a child, when they graduate from most universities, would be to send them on at least a month long holiday to a socialist country. They probably won't actually die, but they might appreciate what this country has.

Funny you should say that... In high school I was a rather left leaning person, to the left of even most of our more progressive friends here.

My graduation present from my parents was a trip to the USSR.

And while it didn't change me fully into the right thinking intellectual I am today, it definitely woke me up to what those left policies I'd been in favor of look like in a real world implementation.

[Skinhead]

I suppose most people know this, but since most 4-year colleges have (almost) two years of required courses (with a few choices between A and B this, and C and D that), the smart money sends their kids to community college for 2 years (while living at home), which serves to save money and to develop study habits, and show they are actually serious about school.  But it is imperative that you do the legwork to make sure that most (if not all) of those courses are properly accepted at the 4-year school they are aiming at transferring to, to get their bachelors degree.  If they show excellent progress at CC.

I did this with my 2 boys.  The oldest went from CC to Lawrence Tech for a BS in Mechanical Engineering.  He was about $15K in debt with student loans when he graduated.  

The younger son had a harder time deciding what he wanted to do, he got a EMT certificate at a CC, but never pursued that line of work, then went to beauty school and was a barber few a few years.  He got his break to enter the movie business from a customer at the barber shop and has done exceedingly well for himself.  How ever, this was the exception rather than the rule, it required a lot of sacrifice, and a significant amount of drive to go out and find work until he became established.  If he was not self motivated, I'm sure he would not have been nearly as successful as he was.

You can't go wrong with an engineering degree, especially from a good technical college.  If college isn't for you, skilled trades is a good option.

[RDAbull]

I had no idea what I wanted to do when I was in high school so I didn't finish.  Instead I got a job in construction and was making more than the teachers who thoght they knew everthing.  Then in December I was working outside on the south end of Lake Michigan in the sleet, snow and wind.  Found out quickly I didn't want to do that for the rest of my life so in January went back and finished high school.  A couple of friends had gone to college and were having a great time, it was the late 60's after all, so I thought I could do that for a year or two.  College was fun!  I found out that I was just smart enough to get through but not smart enough to quit.  Ended up collecting four degrees, all in business fields.  Yes, I had to take all if the liberal arts crap, again it was the 60s and that is where most of this junk started.  You can get through it and ignore it at the same time if you wish.
Worked in the farm equipment manufacturing field for 12 years and made a career switch in my 30s.  Ended up in accounting and financial services.  Got invited to teach a CPA review course in Moscow, a true eye opener.  That got me invited to teach in one of the top rated accounting undergraduate programs in the nation, did that for 20 years.  I found that half of the kids in my classes should not have been there.  They were there because the didn't have a clue what to do or how to live on their own. They came "because" or the rents pushed them in to it.  What a waste.  I wouldn't hire them to work in my firm and feel sorry for the firms that did hire them.   Show your kids how to live by example, then they will have a chance to live on their own even on a liberal campus.
My Son did  a couple of years in the military and then finished college while in the National Guard.  He just retired as a Major and is also my business partner.  My twin Grandaughters graduated from high school in the midst of all of the crap going on now and they both took a year off and are working to get a feel of the real world.  I thought that was a great idea, sure helped their Father and me.

[Reb]

I've been actively encouraging my about to graduate high school spawn to NOT blindly go to college, unless there's a specific career she wants to pursue with a specific college requirement...

It's absolutely insane, sadly.....

I have no college credit, much less a degree. Most of my family is the same. My brother and my daughter both have Associates. But, I am thinking constantly about the route my grandson should take. He should have near 100k that we have saved for his college. He is very smart and eager, I know he will do well. But, I have no good frame of reference to guide him. I have always assumed that a degree in Engineering would set a person up pretty well ? I’d appreciate others thoughts on college.

From someone with an Engineering degree,

It's a very rewarding career path with vast opportunity. It's hard to bring cancel culture into physics and mathematics (some have tried)...Although as stated earlier,  general studies are required that might promote some unnecessary indoctrination fesh/soph years.

[RP#62]

Makes me think of this - I used to send it to my engineer friends:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8vHhgh6oM0

-RP

[scooperhsd]

When I first started college, the goal was an Electrical Engineering . I've forgotten more math and physics than most people learn.

When it was clear that I was having cases of "weight on seat dump switch" too often, it was time to change majors - I ended up with a Computer Science degree. Hardly ever did any programming for work, but I used alot of the material in jobs along the way.

Most of the "other" courses were nothing much to worry about. I don't remember very much if any "Liberal Indoctrination", but then, most of that stuff I took at my local community college freshman and sophomore years.

[Willow]

Education -  I dropped out of high school after my junior year and joined the Marine Corps.  Ultimately the Marine Corps sent me to a community college to get an associate's degree and I subsequently taught college courses for several years. I entered the IT (data processing then) as an operator and moved on to assembler language programmer and ultimately a systems programmer.  Toward the last dozen years of my career the title of systems engineer was attached to what I did.  This annoyed one of my co-workers as he held that title but had submitted himself to a four year program resulting in an engineering degree.  I did not prefer the title but I regularly told him I learned more working through the levels than did he while partying at a state university.

Four of my eight children went through at least four years of university education.  One carries a master's degree.  I associate regularly on a peer level with folks holding doctorates.

I think a college education and degree is worthwhile for young people suited to work at a technical or philosophical level.  I would strongly encourage young folks to be educated but not allow themselves to be indoctrinated.  Some come out of college only having been exposed to the thoughts and conclusions of historical intellectuals.  Some come out with the experience of having been exposed to accomplishments of great thinkers but continuing to think for themselves and to learn for a lifetime.

Like so much of life a college education prepares some for a successful life and leaves some as unthinking puppets.  It is what you choose to do with it.

[Rams]

I think a college education and degree is worthwhile for young people suited to work at a technical or philosophical level.  I would strongly encourage young folks to be educated but not allow themselves to be indoctrinated.  Some come out of college only having been exposed to the thoughts and conclusions of historical intellectuals.  Some come out with the experience of having been exposed to accomplishments of great thinkers but continuing to think for themselves and to learn for a lifetime.

Like so much of life a college education prepares some for a successful life and leaves some as unthinking puppets.  It is what you choose to do with it.

I tend to agree with this train of thought.   I always did, have and continue to think of my degree as a ticket to go or do other things.   My degree only suggests I had the intelligence and internal fortitude to do something and see it through.   That degree only got me in the door, I had to prove I could do the job.   Oh yeah, the Peter Principle is still applicable even with a degree.

I see graduation from flight school and the test pilot course to be similar.   Although, paying attention in the MTP course did have it's rewards, not paying attention can have consequences.   There's some things you just don't want to learn the hard way.  

Rams

[Valker]

My degree allowed me to travel many hundreds of thousands of miles on my motorcycles....I needed a degree to get a teaching job which allowed me 11-12 weeks every summer, one week at Thanksgiving, two weeks at Christmas, and a week in the early Spring to ride my bikes on trips. Was it worth it? Absolutely.

[carolinarider09]

I don't know what I thought when I was attending college but some time later, when I went back to finish my degree using the GI Bill, I had the following thoughts.  

There are several things a "higher education" should provide.  

First is a fundamental methodology for addressing and resolving problems.  Sort of like how to troubleshoot but not that specific

Next is to provide you the basic skills and tools you need to do the above.  

Finally, to prove you can complete a task once started.  

It should never be to "punch your ticket" which seems so prevalent today.  

When I entered college in the mid 60's I was majoring in Electoral Engineering.  After two years I figured that was not for me and changed to Forestry.  My father had a Forestry Degree from Penn State and I did like the way the classes were taught and the Professors.  It was fun, except for the one part where we had to identify trees by buds.  

However I was not really that driven to get my degree so I dropped out (grades) at the end of my Junior year and six months later joined the US Navy destined for the Submarine Service.  

When I got out I went to work in commercial nuclear power and went back to school to finish my degree.  That took a long time but I finally got a BA and then I got an MBA.

The BA and the MBA were to prove to my employer that I could complete a task, even it it took 20 years..  


Edit:   I did some editing to correct some sentence structure issues.  English never was my strong suite.  Oh, I did try to get a Computer Science degree but while I got all the classes for the first two years, getting the Junior and Senior level classes required me to attend day time classes and since I was working that was not possible.  

Just to show you how colleges/universities were set up back in the 80's, 12 or so of us taking the evening computer science classes went to the Dean and asked if they would provide evening classes for the Junior and Senior level courses.  We told the Dean we would guarantee that there would be at least 12 students in each class making it a break even for the University.  He declined saying that the Computer Science Degree was not something they want too offer in that way.  As I said, even in the 80's it was about the "school" and not the students.  
 

[The emperor has no clothes]

I've been actively encouraging my about to graduate high school spawn to NOT blindly go to college, unless there's a specific career she wants to pursue with a specific college requirement...

It's absolutely insane, sadly.....

I have no college credit, much less a degree. Most of my family is the same. My brother and my daughter both have Associates. But, I am thinking constantly about the route my grandson should take. He should have near 100k that we have saved for his college. He is very smart and eager, I know he will do well. But, I have no good frame of reference to guide him. I have always assumed that a degree in Engineering would set a person up pretty well ? I’d appreciate others thoughts on college.

From someone with an Engineering degree,

It's a very rewarding career path with vast opportunity. It's hard to bring cancel culture into physics and mathematics (some have tried)...Although as stated earlier,  general studies are required that might promote some unnecessary indoctrination fesh/soph years.

Thanks for the reply.  Brayden just turned 15, so it’s a little early for him to decide on anything yet. Thanks again.

[F6Dave]

I've been actively encouraging my about to graduate high school spawn to NOT blindly go to college, unless there's a specific career she wants to pursue with a specific college requirement...

It's absolutely insane, sadly.....

I have no college credit, much less a degree. Most of my family is the same. My brother and my daughter both have Associates. But, I am thinking constantly about the route my grandson should take. He should have near 100k that we have saved for his college. He is very smart and eager, I know he will do well. But, I have no good frame of reference to guide him. I have always assumed that a degree in Engineering would set a person up pretty well ? I’d appreciate others thoughts on college.

I think the first questions to ask is what are his interests, and what are his academic strengths and weaknesses.  I have known many people who pursue a career only to realize years later that they made a big mistake.  When I was young it was common for girls to be pressured to become nurses or teachers.  Many gave in to the pressure and ended up in a profession they hated.  OTOH I had a co-worker who made an early correction.  He entered college determined to become an architect.  Within a few weeks he realized he could end up doing mundane tasks like calculating the number of toilets required by code in an office building.  He quickly changed his major and became a civil engineer, and now is an engineer in the oil and gas industry.

Like many have said an engineering degree, or nearly any STEM degree, will practically guarantee multiple job offers with great income.  But those careers aren't for everyone, and some people find the work downright gruesome.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I've been actively encouraging my about to graduate high school spawn to NOT blindly go to college, unless there's a specific career she wants to pursue with a specific college requirement...

It's absolutely insane, sadly.....

I have no college credit, much less a degree. Most of my family is the same. My brother and my daughter both have Associates. But, I am thinking constantly about the route my grandson should take. He should have near 100k that we have saved for his college. He is very smart and eager, I know he will do well. But, I have no good frame of reference to guide him. I have always assumed that a degree in Engineering would set a person up pretty well ? I’d appreciate others thoughts on college.

I think the first questions to ask is what are his interests, and what are his academic strengths and weaknesses.  I have known many people who pursue a career only to realize years later that they made a big mistake.  When I was young it was common for girls to be pressured to become nurses or teachers.  Many gave in to the pressure and ended up in a profession they hated.  OTOH I had a co-worker who made an early correction.  He entered college determined to become an architect.  Within a few weeks he realized he could end up doing mundane tasks like calculating the number of toilets required by code in an office building.  He quickly changed his major and became a civil engineer, and now is an engineer in the oil and gas industry.

Like many have said an engineering degree, or nearly any STEM degree, will practically guarantee multiple job offers with great income.  But those careers aren't for everyone, and some people find the work downright gruesome.

His thinking now is he’d like to be an astronomer. But, I think he just says that cause people keep asking him what he wants to do.  (When I was his age I wanted to be the Dallas Cowboy’s Quarterback)

[Rams]

  (When I was his age I wanted to be the Dallas Cowboy’s Quarterback)

Based on their play and record the last few years, who knows, they maybe should have taken the chance.   

Rams

[The emperor has no clothes]

  (When I was his age I wanted to be the Dallas Cowboy’s Quarterback)

Based on their play and record the last few years, who knows, they maybe should have taken the chance.   

Rams

Sadly I have to admit, when they picked Roger Staubach over me, they probably made the right decision. 

[Wizzard]

I got out of high school and attended 12 months of tech school in electronics repair. Worked in that for 2 years at motorola  then got married. Father in Law offered to have me work for him as he had 2 tires stores and was opening a new one and wanted me to manage. Did that for 18 years and hated it. Paid good but what good is it if you are not happy. Leaving a family business is not easy but it worked out. I went back to school and got my EE degree and never looked back. I love my job and probably wont retire till at least 70.
Like Roger said, I was the oldest in the class and most of the kids were wasting their folks money without a clue what they wanted to do. They all thought I was so smart because of my straight A's but I let them know I was not any smarter than them. I was just focused on what I wanted.
I would NEVER take a job just cause it pays well. Personally I have to be  happy with what I am doing and if that means a smaller salary, then so be it.

[Rams]

I was just focused on what I wanted.
I would NEVER take a job just cause it pays well. Personally I have to be  happy with what I am doing and if that means a smaller salary, then so be it.

Not to disagree with you but, I really think it depends on where you are at in life.

When I got out of the Army, I had great qualifications to do what I always wanted to do.   That being fly helicopters.   I had thousands of accident free hours and was a Test Pilot as icing on the cake and yet, the best paying job I could find was flying off shore to and from the oil rigs and/or flying medivac.   Neither offer would support my growing family.   At that point, it was about making more money.

So, I did what I needed to do and took a job as a Supervisor for a forest products company, not one I really enjoyed but, financial needs outweighed my own personal desires.   My desire was to provide for my family.   I worked my way up to the position of Production Manager.  It was what I needed to do.   Happiness is very important and I won't deny that but, we do what we need to do to take care of our priorities.

Now, I do what I want to do when I want to do it.  (All dependent on what my wife says) 

Rams

[Jess from VA]

I climbed high steel and painted steel mills to get through school.  It paid really well.  I didn't hate it (mostly), though I worked my ass off all day every day.  I couldn't afford to hate it because I had to do it for 9 straight summers to fund my education.

I law clerked during law school for chump change (gas and lunch money).

I worked for a judge, and three law firms, and for myself for a few years after school, and never came close to my steel mill pay.  I joined the Air Force, and maybe got close to steel mill pay after 6 years or so.  

This did not make me want to go back to the steel mill.  (I did consider that hard work and no responsibility for good money had a certain appeal compared to constant lawyer-level stress, but you commit to something, you stick with it.  And steel mill work is not for old men.)  I stuck with it until I retired.  

Bar none, retirement is the best job I ever had. (And it don't pay sh!t.)  

(And you hardly need any education at all for it.)