Timing Belts

[RustyValkry]

If you've read any of my thread "Saving the RustyValkry" you know I've got it back on the road.  I'm leaving Daytona beach to head north either Sunday or Monday and I have a lot of packing to do so the RustyValkry is what it is at this point.  I'm out of time.  Either today or tomorrow I'll ride it to the gas station and top off the tank then cover it in my friend's garage. 

If I fly back down in a couple weeks to get it I won't be able to work on it except for minor stuff since all my tools will then be back in NJ. 

I need opinions, I believe the bike has 22K actual miles as indicated.  The bike sat for several years at least.  Should I ride it from Daytona Beach to New Jersey, probably mostly interstates, with the timing belts that are on it? 

Follow up question.  If I were to change them before I ride it north, what are the minimum tools I'd need to get the job done.  I could probably leave enough tools to make the change if it doesn't take too much time and I don't need a full tool box.

Thanks for the input.

[Timbo1]

It's been quite a long time since I changed out the belts so I don't recall the tools required.  I'll look around to see if I can find a doc for the process & tools needed.  If it were me I'd at least inspect them, especially with everything you've come across on that one.. 

Here's a recommendation on the schedule
http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/carlbelts.htm

[hubcapsc]

My 97 has 110ish-K on it. I think the belts are original. I *need* to change them,
but I'm not afraid to ride it. Yours are "probably" OK. There's some stuff I
remember about maybe needing that giant gasket, maybe needing to put
sealer goo around one of the screws on the cover, and sometimes some
of the screws are hard to get out...

If it were me I'd not set myself up to do it as a rush job...

-Mike

[F6Dave]

One of the bolts holding the timing cover on has sealant on it, and can be difficult to remove.  Fully warming the engine up before first can help.

[Skinhead]

I've changed timing belts on 2 of my bikes, one at 100K and one at 80K miles.  In both instances the old belts looked fine and I only changed them as I was already that far into it.  The 80K belts were on an Interstate that sat outside for 1.5 years and was in similar shape to the rusty valk.  IMHO, I would pull the timing cover and check the belt tension and adjust it if necessary, replacement is probably not required with the low mileage on that bike.

Changing the belts does not require special tools, and is a relatively easy job but can go south on you if you allow the cams to get out of time.  Due care is required and most importantly, rotate the crank several revolutions by hand after changing the belts before starting the bike.  If any resistance other than normal friction is encountered during your by hand rotation, STOP AND CHECK THE TIMING MARKS.  Failure to get it right will result in bent valves as these are interference engines.

[Hook#3287]

I'd inspect the belts very closely and if no signs of cracks, splits or wear, I'd run em.

I changed a set on my original 99 CT @ 75k, looked as good as new.


 

[The emperor has no clothes]

At 150k I should probably change my I/S’s. Visually they look fine though.

[Hook#3287]

At 150k I should probably change my I/S’s. Visually they look fine though.

Rob, the Mother Honda Service Books states " I: every 100,000 mil"  I= Inspect and clean, adjust lubricate or replace as necessary.

So if you did that @ 100K your good for another 50.

Your welcome.

[RustyValkry]

I've skimmed through what the service manual says about changing the timing belts.  While it doesn't look difficult I'm concerned about the unwritten gotchas.  First thing I could run into is frozen bolts.  If I need a new gasket I'm screwed for a quick turnaround.  I'm inclined to go with it just as it is 'cause as soon as I turn the first screw I'm committed but I wanted to get some folks with real world experience to comment.  My road king has the same drive belt that came on it on 2004 and the bike has 57K miles.  I inspect the belt at every tire change and as of the last rear tire it still looks good.  I can't imagine the timing belts would be any different except for the heat of the engine.

[Jess from VA]

In all of Valkyriedom, I'm not sure I've ever heard a story about a failed belt while underway, (and the damage an interference engine can suffer from it.....bent valves, bent crank?)

Valks make lots of noises, but if I didn't hear any particular belt noise under the timing cover (squeaking, slipping), I think I'd just ride it home, and deal with the belts (and tensioners) at your leisure later on.

When you get to it, there is a way to rebuild your tensioners saving lots of money from buying new ones.   

[The emperor has no clothes]

I've skimmed through what the service manual says about changing the timing belts.  While it doesn't look difficult I'm concerned about the unwritten gotchas.  First thing I could run into is frozen bolts.  If I need a new gasket I'm screwed for a quick turnaround.  I'm inclined to go with it just as it is 'cause as soon as I turn the first screw I'm committed but I wanted to get some folks with real world experience to comment.  My road king has the same drive belt that came on it on 2004 and the bike has 57K miles.  I inspect the belt at every tire change and as of the last rear tire it still looks good.  I can't imagine the timing belts would be any different except for the heat of the engine.

I would think the timing belts would triple or better the drive belt on an HD. There doesn’t seem to be much heat under there really. I think the tensioner bearings are the only thing I’d be even thinking about. If they aren’t slinging grease or making noise, you are probably good to go.

[RonW]

I wouldn't rely solely on the service manual. The right-side cam pulley never seems to line up with the factory hash marks on my Valk, for example. (I don't know your level of experience.) For now, the bolts for the timing cover have different lengths so stick them in a template.

[Skinhead]

In all of Valkyriedom, I'm not sure I've ever heard a story about a failed belt while underway, (and the damage an interference engine can suffer from it.....bent valves, bent crank?)

I may mistaken, but I believe Kendall had a timing belt failure while under way.

I have heard of many more cases where people thought they would change the belts for "peace of mind", and screwed up the install, started their bike, and did major damage.

[RustyValkry]

Thanks guys.  I'll probably just run it up as is. 

Today I did some odds and ends.  Put together a little tool set, in addition to the Honda tool kit, to stash in a saddlebag.  Tomorrow I'll take a final ride then cover it in my friend's garage.  Once I make the decision to ride it home I'm committed because I'll leave the battery in it.  My one tender is attached to the '81 FLT which will stay here till winter.  If I don't get down to get it the battery will probably be dead by December.

It would have been nice to have another few weeks to do some tuning and work through the connections in the electrical system but it is what it is.

[Hook#3287]

In all of Valkyriedom, I'm not sure I've ever heard a story about a failed belt while underway, (and the damage an interference engine can suffer from it.....bent valves, bent crank?)

I may mistaken, but I believe Kendall had a timing belt failure while under way.

I have heard of many more cases where people thought they would change the belts for "peace of mind", and screwed up the install, started their bike, and did major damage.

This is absolutely the truth.  One possible belt failure, to dozens of mechanic failures.

And Rob, I was kidding w/ya.

At 150k, I'd probably swap em out. 

[Earl43P]

Ride it north, confidently. That's my vote.

Mine is nearing 100k miles, and I expect to keep them in service ( like Meathead ) without any worry. At some future winter maintenance session, I WILL replace them, but I’m never going to be concerned about them before then.

[The emperor has no clothes]

In all of Valkyriedom, I'm not sure I've ever heard a story about a failed belt while underway, (and the damage an interference engine can suffer from it.....bent valves, bent crank?)

I may mistaken, but I believe Kendall had a timing belt failure while under way.

I have heard of many more cases where people thought they would change the belts for "peace of mind", and screwed up the install, started their bike, and did major damage.

This is absolutely the truth.  One possible belt failure, to dozens of mechanic failures.

And Rob, I was kidding w/ya.

At 150k, I'd probably swap em out. 

I probably will. After hearing stories of guys bending valves after moving the cam gears I thought I would just have BigBF do them.  I dilly dallied too long.

[gordonv]

I've done mine on my old 88' Goldwing, when it was 25 yrs old.

Others have mentioned, by the time you look, you might as well just replace them. With the Valkyrie, it doesn't take too long to take the cover off. On the GW, there is a lot of plastic in the way, and I would do that.

Mine where replaced at 100K by the PO. I would base it all upon the price you pay for the belts (only buy them when you need them), I think as little as $15 ea, to $75 at the dealer. Look up the generic options in Shoptalk for parts. Gates belts are all the same for this model, so get the best price you can find (I think I paid $50 at Autozone), and just change them out, and wait another 20 yrs or 100K miles.

[Oss]

I would ride it home but what the hell do I know?    

I would be more concerned with original ujoint or original alternator

Do you have a battery charger?  I disconnected my light (fuse) plugged into an outlet at a gas station and had juice enough to get me home when my alternator went south  My voltmeter let me know about the trouble

Bill did my belt at 110000   They looked fine to him but he told me since he was there......

You will be on 95 the whole way?  

[RustyValkry]

Well I hope the alternator is considerate enough to wait till I get home before it fails.  It's too late to mess with it now, and it's in Daytona Beach and I'm in New Jersey.   

I haven't decided what route I'll take.  I'm torn between getting back up here as fast as possible or doing back roads.  I have a friend near Harrisonburg, VA that I'll visit on the way.  Hopefully while I'm visiting I'll get to ride with him and his daughter who is a new rider.

Even if I decide to take I-95 I wouldn't take it through the cesspool that is Washington.  I'd cut off in Richmond and go across 64 to I-81.

[Jess from VA]

If time and weather allow, you could ride some of the Blue Ridge Parkway (and the top two exits are the Skyline drive).  

But if you get off the BRP at mile marker #1 near Waynesboro VA, it's just a short run over to I-81 N to your buddy's in Harrisonburg VA (via I-65 or 250).

If you do take the BRP, here is a link to copy on paper and take with you.  Finding gas can be a challenge on the BRP; some exits you get off and a station is right there, or it can be 50 miles away.  And you cannot see the gas stations from the BRP.  Being on fumes on BRP is quite aggravating (I've done it several times, I know).

https://www.blueridgeparkway.org/gas-availability/

BRP mile markers (can be buried in the weeds)




One other thing for your ride north.  Get some rain gear.  And if it's pouring rain, pass on the BRP.  And the BRP is higher elevations, and can be nippy.

[saddlesore]

Sorry I'm late to this thread   1999 Standard,, I replaced my belts twice, they looked fine but why take a chance.  Replaced a third time ( after one belt shredded}
I was lucky that I was at the end of my road.   Bent some valve stems. Took the head off, replaced the valves grinding the valve seats and valves.   I replaced the tensioners.  Set all valves.  That was around 150,000 miles on it.
Last week I got rid of the bike with 170,000 miles.   Replacing my parts isn't a successful as on the Valkyrie.     

[Skinhead]

Sorry I'm late to this thread   1999 Standard,, I replaced my belts twice, they looked fine but why take a chance.  Replaced a third time ( after one belt shredded}
I was lucky that I was at the end of my road.   Bent some valve stems. Took the head off, replaced the valves grinding the valve seats and valves.   I replaced the tensioners.  Set all valves.  That was around 150,000 miles on it.
Last week I got rid of the bike with 170,000 miles.   Replacing my parts isn't a successful as on the Valkyrie.     

I'm not saying you did something wrong on your install, but improper belt tension could cause belts to fail.  I see that as another reason to not replace timing belts prematurely.

[RonW]

Last week I got rid of the bike with 170,000 miles.

any pics?

[RustyValkry]

I'm back home on NJ now.  Got here on Tuesday.  It's early spring here with the typical warm today cold tomorrow.  I'm thinking I'll fly back down to Daytona in 2 weeks.  Hopefully the weather will warm up in that time. 

In terms of route, I've been thinking about that.  I don't think I want to do interstates all the way.  I've been thinking about the BRP and or Skyline drive.  I'm tempted, depending on the weather, to back road the whole way.  I'll probably make that decision the night before I leave or even as I'm riding.  You miss so much on the interstates .

[Jess from VA]

I generally plan my trips by looking at the weather (temp and precip), and by how long I have.  (So it usually comes down to last minute decision making.)

Bad weather, I superslab it because it's just safer.  And no matter how hard I try, I'm not having fun in bad weather anyway, so I might as well make distance.  My main problem in rain is just seeing.  The BRP, in driving rain and thunder and lightening can be downright scary, and dark as night under the trees, and the deer are out.

Nice weather and time, I can go anywhere.  

Unless you have the old fogey card, Skyline Drive (the top two exits of BRP) is now $25 for motorcycles.

Also, I forgot to mention, it's always worth your time to check for road work going on the BRP.  They do the nastiest chip and seal (tar and gravel) roads up there and you absolutely do not want to ride your bike on it for miles and miles.  I've turned around and gone a long way back to go around.  If you can't find it on their website, always ask at the entrance gates when you get on, the rangers usually are in the know.  With budget issues, there may not be any going on right now.

[Mooskee]

In years past I have spent many hours trying to figure out trips on the Blue Ridge Parkway. After I got a GPS I have winged it a few times. Now with cell phones and the BRP people getting more digital, there are some great resources like Jess's link to gas stops. Would have really appreciated that in the 90's.

They have also developed The Blue Ridge Parkway Travel Planner App https://www.blueridgeparkway.org/brp-travel-planner-app/

It has a lot of good resources, and the maps can be downloaded for $1.99 so it all works even without a cell signal.

[saddlesore]

Last week I got rid of the bike with 170,000 miles.

any pics?
I can try to get more pics posted but there's been some changes.

https://postimg.cc/gallery/mZb1T38

[saddlesore]

Sorry I'm late to this thread   1999 Standard,, I replaced my belts twice, they looked fine but why take a chance.  Replaced a third time ( after one belt shredded}
I was lucky that I was at the end of my road.   Bent some valve stems. Took the head off, replaced the valves grinding the valve seats and valves.   I replaced the tensioners.  Set all valves.  That was around 150,000 miles on it.
Last week I got rid of the bike with 170,000 miles.   Replacing my parts isn't a successful as on the Valkyrie.     

I'm not saying you did something wrong on your install, but improper belt tension could cause belts to fail.  I see that as another reason to not replace timing belts prematurely.

I could be wrong but aren't they spring loaded?

[Skinhead]

Sorry I'm late to this thread   1999 Standard,, I replaced my belts twice, they looked fine but why take a chance.  Replaced a third time ( after one belt shredded}
I was lucky that I was at the end of my road.   Bent some valve stems. Took the head off, replaced the valves grinding the valve seats and valves.   I replaced the tensioners.  Set all valves.  That was around 150,000 miles on it.
Last week I got rid of the bike with 170,000 miles.   Replacing my parts isn't a successful as on the Valkyrie.     

I'm not saying you did something wrong on your install, but improper belt tension could cause belts to fail.  I see that as another reason to not replace timing belts prematurely.

I could be wrong but aren't they spring loaded?

Not quite, They do have springs to take up the slack in the belt, but the tensioners themselves are locked in place when you tighten the mounting bolts.  Per the manual:

NOTE
Inspect and adjust timing belt tension while the engine is
cold.
To check the timing mark alignment, turn the crankshaft 90
degrees clockwise and then 90 degrees counterclockwise.
Make sure the TI .2 mark is aligned with the index mark.
Push the belt lower run midway between the pulleys with 2 kg
(4.4 lb.) force. Adjust the tensioner position so that the belt
slack 1s 5-7 mm (0.2-0.3 in).
Tighten the tensioner bolt of the driven pulley side first, then
tighten the drive pulley side bolt.
TORQUE: 25 N-m (2.6 kgfor, 19 lbf-ft)
Check the timing mark alignment for the left Timing belt in the
same way.
Push the belt upper run midway between the pulleys with 2
kg (4.4 Ib) force. Adjust the tensioner position so that the belt
slack IS 5-7 mm (0.2-0.3 in).
Tighten the tensioner bolt of the driven pulley side first, then
tighten The drive pulley side bolt.
TORQUE; 25 N-m (2.6 kgf-m, 79 Ibf-ft

Sorry, copying from the PDF results in several mis-spellings.