make motorcycles visible to the cars that have Automatic Emergency Braking

[98valk]

https://www.goldwingfacts.com/threads/make-your-bike-visible-to-radar.672297/?utm_source=threadloom&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ed1078&utm_content=iss159#post-5936915

[Mooskee]

That looks like a really good idea, and it is cheap and easy to make. Might save your life.

[Jersey]

Thanks for posting!  Nice idea.

[WintrSol]

It would help to know what the frequency of the RADAR is, so you can cut it large enough to reflect enough. Too small, and it isn't effective, too large and you have a mounting problem. I wonder which RF channel they operate on. Of course, then there could be LIDAR systems, which would work with the same principle, just a different reflector material.

I just looked it up, and the chosen frequency is about 77.4GHz, so a wavelength of about 3.9mm. If you make the reflector a multiple of that the reflection will show up pretty well, say 3.9cm or 7.8cm from the apex  to one side (1.5" or 3"), either could be mountable on most cruisers.

[Mooskee]

I just looked it up, and the chosen frequency is about 77.4GHz, so a wavelength of about 3.9mm. If you make the reflector a multiple of that the reflection will show up pretty well, say 3.9cm or 7.8cm from the apex  to one side (1.5" or 3"), either could be mountable on most cruisers.

I was thinking of making 2 of them of a smaller dimension, and placing one in the bottom back of each saddle bag, so as not to take up too much room. I don't have a trunk, but if you do you could put one in there too.  
They should work. When I was in the Navy, we had some tetrahedrons that some of our jets would tow on a cable a mile behind the plane. They were RADAR significant targets for ground and air RADAR operators to target and shoot! They basically looked like a big paper airplane. They were aluminum coated fiberglass. Worked well except for the time a Marine pilot locked on with a sidewinder and the sidewinder liked the jet tailpipe better than the flare in the tow target. My division officer punched out that day and saw the plane blow up as he was being rocketed away. It only takes 1.5 second for ejection seat parachute to deploy. He was still in the eject sequence. Cut it a little close. My buddy had asked to ride back seat that day and the DO said not this time. My buddy was sort of pissed until the plane blew up and he realized he would not have made it out.

[98valk]

I just looked it up, and the chosen frequency is about 77.4GHz, so a wavelength of about 3.9mm. If you make the reflector a multiple of that the reflection will show up pretty well, say 3.9cm or 7.8cm from the apex  to one side (1.5" or 3"), either could be mountable on most cruisers.

I was thinking of making 2 of them of a smaller dimension, and placing one in the bottom back of each saddle bag, so as not to take up too much room. I don't have a trunk, but if you do you could put one in there too.  
They should work. When I was in the Navy, we had some tetrahedrons that some of our jets would tow on a cable a mile behind the plane. They were RADAR significant targets for ground and air RADAR operators to target and shoot! They basically looked like a big paper airplane. They were aluminum coated fiberglass. Worked well except for the time a Marine pilot locked on with a sidewinder and the sidewinder liked the jet tailpipe better than the flare in the tow target. My division officer punched out that day and saw the plane blow up as he was being rocketed away. It only takes 1.5 second for ejection seat parachute to deploy. He was still in the eject sequence. Cut it a little close. My buddy had asked to ride back seat that day and the DO said not this time. My buddy was sort of pissed until the plane blew up and he realized he would not have made it out.

great story.. don't let buck and aikman know about it.   

[Gondul]

How many manufacturers use radar?
I know my RAM does (and it sucks in general)
If it is 'majority', it may be more useful than not... I know Subaru uses cameras and operation is *much* better and smoother.

[WintrSol]

I just looked it up, and the chosen frequency is about 77.4GHz, so a wavelength of about 3.9mm. If you make the reflector a multiple of that the reflection will show up pretty well, say 3.9cm or 7.8cm from the apex  to one side (1.5" or 3"), either could be mountable on most cruisers.

I was thinking of making 2 of them of a smaller dimension, and placing one in the bottom back of each saddle bag, so as not to take up too much room. I don't have a trunk, but if you do you could put one in there too.  
They should work. When I was in the Navy, we had some tetrahedrons that some of our jets would tow on a cable a mile behind the plane. They were RADAR significant targets for ground and air RADAR operators to target and shoot! They basically looked like a big paper airplane. They were aluminum coated fiberglass. Worked well except for the time a Marine pilot locked on with a sidewinder and the sidewinder liked the jet tailpipe better than the flare in the tow target. My division officer punched out that day and saw the plane blow up as he was being rocketed away. It only takes 1.5 second for ejection seat parachute to deploy. He was still in the eject sequence. Cut it a little close. My buddy had asked to ride back seat that day and the DO said not this time. My buddy was sort of pissed until the plane blew up and he realized he would not have made it out.

Yeah, AIM-9s are stupid. Our QF target aircraft would have 'smudge pots' on the wing tips since Sidewinders were supposed to prefer them as a bigger target. Let's just say there was a reason we used remote pilots in those aircraft.

[John Schmidt]

Begs the question...will the AEB react better to a trike? It has more metal and is wider that a 2 wheeler. In the case of the trike, I wonder if it should be placed in the trunk built into the body or in my case...placed in the trunk on top since mine is a converted Interstate. Sure is an interesting concept and worthy of a try.

I could test it with my daughter's car but I'd have her car sitting still and I'd push the trike backward toward it. Not that I don't trust her but.... 

[WintrSol]

A corner reflector in any of those locations at the back will light up a RADAR, but you're right, you have a lot more surface to begin with.

[-mike-]

This thread (and the video that started it) is the best example for half educated guesses leading to false assumptions and get spread as universal truth by sharing.

Automated obstacle recognition by radar/microwave in mobile applications is FAR more complicated than just throwing together sender/receiver/run time/signal strength.

Learn about  sensor arrays,  multiple sensor data integration and - most of all: software algorithms!
Can you be sure that these "artificial high intensity peaks" you build with these reflectors won't get interpreted as erroneous warnings the will be ignored then?

I'd say: let it be.

EBS systems are well capable of detecting a standing motorcycle. At least the systems we have in Europe.

-mike-

[Mooskee]

great story.. don't let buck and aikman know about it.   Wink

Lucky for me I do give a red rat's rear about what those two chuckle heads think. They can "get a haircut and get a real job."

[WintrSol]

This thread (and the video that started it) is the best example for half educated guesses leading to false assumptions and get spread as universal truth by sharing.

Automated obstacle recognition by radar/microwave in mobile applications is FAR more complicated than just throwing together sender/receiver/run time/signal strength.

Learn about  sensor arrays,  multiple sensor data integration and - most of all: software algorithms!
Can you be sure that these "artificial high intensity peaks" you build with these reflectors won't get interpreted as erroneous warnings the will be ignored then?

I'd say: let it be.

EBS systems are well capable of detecting a standing motorcycle. At least the systems we have in Europe.

-mike-

So, you're saying a typical automotive RADAR is looking more for an area distribution than a peak reflectance? In that case, multiple small reflectors would be better, but the bike that really need them are too narrow for more than one or two, side-by-side.

We put corner reflectors around the F-23 prototype, so the chase airplane could see it, even without the special coatings. Maybe fighter RADAR picks things up differently?