Took a short ride this evening...

[John Schmidt]

About three miles and fortunately I had turned around and headed back for the hovel. As I approached the house, the trike started running rough then died just as I pulled up in front of the garage. Dead battery, put the VOM on 10vdc and tested battery juice at the Battery Tender connection. The needle didn't quite reach the 10v mark. It seemed strange I couldn't get the cruise to engage and the turn signals didn't want to come on either. When they did it was really slow and the bike began to falter. Thankfully the trike pushes real easy so I just aimed it at the parking spot in the garage and shoved it in place, then hooked up the Tender. Once I can get it started I'll be checking the alternator output, it had better be ok cuz I had it rebuilt in Fla. before moving up here. I have no idea how old the battery is, it's an AGM type and was in the trike when I bought it last fall. Needless to say, it's kind of a let down...especially since I don't know the reason behind it all yet.

[da prez]

John , remove and clean all connections.  Start from scratch. You know the ritual.

                  da prez

[John Schmidt]

Well, the charging issue is still up in the air for me. After putting the trike on a Battery Tender, it brought the battery up to full charge. According to my volt meter it wasn't totally dead, just too low to operate the  bike. At full charge the VOM showed 14 volts and the bike fired right up...everything worked as it should but I didn't take it for a ride, just tested lights, turns, fog lights, brakes, etc. I wanted to see if the alternator was charging but with a full battery there wasn't any indication on the meter so I left the key on after shutting down the bike. After maybe 20 minutes the charge was low enough that it should show some deflection when I started the bike...but didn't. The battery seemed to run down rather quickly during my little test.

Having never had an AGM battery before, I'm not familiar with the charge/discharge characteristics. What I'm wondering about is if an AGM is on its last legs, even with a good alternator will it not show a charge? I'm not looking forward to pulling that fool alternator again, I had a shop go through it before leaving Florida in 2019 so it should be good...but with my luck, who knows. The old unit had 68k miles on it so I decided to swap it out with the rebuilt unit over the winter. Tomorrow I plan to pull the battery and take it somewhere to be tested. I'm just glad this is happening now rather than on the road headed for IZ next month, I'd be even happier if it didn't happed at all but it is what it is. 

[gordonv]

You've got a VOM, so for others, you check your battery voltage, record/remember it. Start the bike and check it again, maybe rev the engine above 1500 rpm. You should be closer to 14V than to 12V, if the alternator is working.

Did you check your 50A dog bone fuse? Use the VOM on each side, the voltage should match (or the ohm meter). There is a spare fuse in the housing.

Your troubles with the bike (signals/dash) is typical for the IS version when battery power is low. If you know you are low on power, pull the head light fuse, and you'll get some longer range.

I drove 60 miles/1 hr+ after confirming my alternator wasn't charging my battery, after pulling the headlight fuse and remove all the extra accessories wires off the battery. Swapped the alt out, and the battery was still charged enough to start the bike easily.

[John Schmidt]

The battery wasn't dead after my testing but was down some. It's been on the Tender for over 2 hrs. and the red light is still on, indicating charging problems. I checked the battery(digital VOM) and it still shows just 12.24vdc. I'm hoping it's the battery, should know tomorrow. There's a good rebuild shop here in Green Bay so I'm taking the old alternator there in the morning along with the battery. The alt was still putting out but I'm going to have them go through it so I have a good spare. If it's the battery, that shop sells Vulcan batteries which have a higher number of plates than usual...my son-in-law swears by them and won't use anything else in his shop trucks. Stay tuned!

Well, the battery has been on the Tender over 4 hrs. and still showing not fully charged. The voltage has only moved from 12.24 to 12.49 in the last couple hours. I'm betting the battery has checked out, I'll leave it on the Tender overnight and see what happens by morning.

As of 8:00am this morning the battery shows the charge has only moved from 12.49v to 12.6v. I'm pulling the battery and taking it and the alternator that came in the trike to a local rebuilder shop. The green light never came on when the Tender was hooked up.

[Bagger John - #3785]

My Concours 14s use the same battery as our Valks. I got my '08 in the fall of 2010 and rode it for a couple of years. Eventually, the OEM-supplied Yuasa was in need of replacement. I looked into a few options and went with an AGM battery.

I was lucky that the thing fell flat on its face my the driveway, rather than on a lonely road 20mi west of BFE. All of my bikes (Connies and Valks alike) are connected to smart tenders when they're in service; especially the Valks. The only time they're taken off is to be ridden or if I need to give one of the C14s its weekly electrical top-up between rides, which can sometimes be several weeks to a month or so. Thus, there's absolutely no reason why this battery should have failed, as the Connie's key-off electrical loading is far (like, two orders of magnitude) less than a Hondaline-radio-equipped Valkyrie. No way it should significantly discharge in a week; the Yuasa-equipped Connies can be left all summer long without being tendered and still fire right up.

Due to that incident, the OP's and several others I'm aware of, I won't put another AGM battery in anything I own. That said, I ran Odyssey PC680s in my Gold Wings when I had them and had very good luck with the setup. Many miles and years on 3 different bikes with a PC680 and nary a hiccup.

 

[h13man]

I used a Deltran Tender @ .75 ma. to charge a new Yuasa that I added the acid to before charging. 1.4 amp. was the charge rate suggested but me having a 2 amp. decided to use the Tender. It actually charged it to "green light" mode but didn't have enough power to turn it over. 2 amp. to the rescue and all is good 3 yrs. later. The Napa battery was still working after 12 yrs. but...

On a note, I wouldn't use a "wet cell" for anything but a lawnmower as their electrical systems aren't as demanding as a MC but sometimes we have no choice but I've heard even Walmart has AGM's now.   

[John Schmidt]

My Battery Tender has always been able to bring the AGM up to a green light. But for some reason the AGM that was in the trike when I bought it finally reached the point where the Tender didn't seem to do the job. Night before last I left it attached all night which meant it was working from a bit before 4:00pm the day before to about 8:00am the next morning...and still no green light. That had never happened before with the same Tender and battery. I pulled it and had it tested at two places, both gave the same results; right on the line between "ok & replace" and showed in need of a charge. After telling one shop guy my experience over the last 36 hrs. he just shook his head, saying it looks like it had been discharged too far to recover safely for future use. One shop told me before I told him of my plight...the side is caved in, an indication on these that it had been discharged to an extreme. No kidding...but it got me right up to the garage door before the bike died. In the end, I bought another AGM and will install it today. Then I think I'll crank it up, set the idle higher, turn on all the bells and whistles and let it run for an extended period. I just want to be sure that "rebuilt" alternator is working. Probably go over to my son-in-law's shop and work on his I/S while the trike is running. That way I can have a free cold drink and the motor running won't bother the neighbors. 

[Jess from VA]

Run it all you want.  But when the fan comes on (in minutes) I wouldn't continue for long. 

[John Schmidt]

Well, I'm thinking my alternator is OOC. The new battery showed 12.6vdc coming off the shelf, I installed it and started the bike. Soon as I turned the key on it dropped to 11.6 and once running never went up. I attached a digital VOM, cranked up the idle and let it run for a few minutes. It never went above 11.6 even when I would snap the throttle. I'm going to put the Battery Tender on it to see how long it takes to get the green light, then run it and see if it still drops. I'll do whatever it takes to keep from pulling that fool alternator again.

[John Schmidt]

Maybe something is draining to ground?  Have you started disconnecting things?  Maybe the voltage will go up.  Pulling fuses and disconnecting as much as possible could give you some assurance that changing that alternator is the way to go.

I had the alternator rebuilt in 2019 before moving up here, this is the first time I've used it. I have the battery on the Battery Tender to bring it up to full charge(green light on the tender) then note the voltage when I unplug it. Next I'll let sit for a few hours...maybe overnight, then check for voltage drop. If considerable, then I'll go looking for a source for voltage drain.

I took the old alternator to a good local shop yesterday for a rebuild so I have a known good one(I hope) on the shelf as a spare. This has me concerned, I'm going to be traveling about this time next month. When I took the unit to the rebuild shop, the old guy in the shop asked "whatcha got there?"  To which I answered..."it's a semi-retired 60 yr. old hooker. It's not too pretty, kinda dirty and worn, but still putting out." Got a good chuckle from him. 

[JimC]

Soon as I turned the key on it dropped to 11.6 and once running never went up. I attached a digital VOM, cranked up the idle and let it run for a few minutes. It never went above 11.6 even when I would snap the throttle.

John,
That sounds to me like a bad alternator, or not hooked up properly. I know you don't want top pull it again, but I would start thinking hard about doing just that.

Jim

[John Schmidt]

Considered that a drain may happen when the key switch is on?  That's a condition that setting overnight with the key switch off wouldn't catch.

Oh yes, one step at a time. I'd be curious what the voltage is that others show on their I/S when they turn on the key...just not start it. I only have two extra taillights and the LED bar I recently installed so there shouldn't be much difference in the reading.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Considered that a drain may happen when the key switch is on?  That's a condition that setting overnight with the key switch off wouldn't catch.

Oh yes, one step at a time. I'd be curious what the voltage is that others show on their I/S when they turn on the key...just not start it. I only have two extra taillights and the LED bar I recently installed so there shouldn't be much difference in the reading.

I think it’s probably irrelevant. If your voltage isn’t rising with rpm’s, it’s likely the alternator. Maybe just brushes. It’s possible the small wire on the back of the alternator broke off also. It’s happened to me before.

[John Schmidt]

Considered that a drain may happen when the key switch is on?  That's a condition that setting overnight with the key switch off wouldn't catch.

Oh yes, one step at a time. I'd be curious what the voltage is that others show on their I/S when they turn on the key...just not start it. I only have two extra taillights and the LED bar I recently installed so there shouldn't be much difference in the reading.

I think it’s probably irrelevant. If your voltage isn’t rising with rpm’s, it’s likely the alternator. Maybe just brushes. It’s possible the small wire on the back of the alternator broke off also. It’s happened to me before.

Rob, I had the alternator gone through in 2019 before moving to Wisconsin. I watched the bench test after they finished and it was kicking out real good, however this is the first time I've had a chance to put it to use. I'm considering installing the battery out of the old bike, it's a good one but not an AGM type. It's currently at 12.5 vdc so would start the trike and if the alternator is working it will show on my volt meter. That would pretty much pin down the source of the problem. Frankly, I'm beginning to think the alternator isn't! 

[John Schmidt]

Late last night I checked the Battery Tender before bed and it was finally solid green. At this point I removed the Tender and noted the voltage at 13.10vdc, I left the Tender unplugged for the night so as to check for possible drain just sitting. This morning the battery showed 12.83vdc, that's only a .27vdc drop so I don't see a drain with the key off. Later this morning I'm swapping the battery with the one in the old bike, it now reads in the low 12vdc range so should reflect a charge taking place if the alternator is working. At 12.24vdc, the new AGM battery didn't show any needle deflection when I would increase the throttle. If it does the same with the different battery, I guess the alternator has to come out...$109 down the drain on the so-called rebuild.

Well, I pulled the alternator in record time...for me; about 10 min. I'll take it with me when I go to pick up the one the rebuild shop has now. Lucky me! 

[John Schmidt]

The repaired one is finally in place and charging as designed. If I never have to change an alternator again it will be too soon.