Uh-oh! SOLVED.

[Valkorado]

Both bikes down...

Still waiting on the petcock for the Bullet, should be here Friday I hope.

That said, was headed out to ride Ruby today.  Flipped on the key and fired her up.  Noticed a flickering on the garage wall, and dismounted to investigate.  The headlights are very dim and flickering.  Not good.  

There's been a lot of "custom" wiring on this bike, there when I purchased it.  One customization was the BonS Smart Switch for Interstates.  The OEM headlight connections have been completely replaced with the Smart Switch direct to battery setup.

I thought I vaguely remember Bon mentioning on the board that he made a bad batch of these, bad resistors or something like that.  I can't find it now.  I think he said the main symptom was flickering headlights like I'm dealing with.    

What next?   I need a direct to battery setup similar to BonS Smart Switch as the OEM headlight wiring is gone.  I am not an electrical fabricator, I can't just whip these up.

I've already changed out an alternator on the Bullet this summer, and now she's down with the fuel delivery issue.
Now Ruby's down too.

Was planning a New Mexico trip with Cheryl next month.  So frustrated...

[gordonv]

Wasn't the OEM wires/connectors left behind, just swap them over?

I hate saying it, but my SmartSwitch for the IS I have I can't use because I have a head light modulator installed, and want to keep that more than the direct wiring. I don't know if someone local might want it, no ones asked yet.

[Valkorado]

No, I'll look again tomorrow behind the fairing, but I think a past owner took the whole OEM headlight wiring harness out. The only plugs I recollect when I installed my LED bulbs years ago were the two SmartSwitch ones.  No factory setup tucked away.

I did fail to mention I'm always willing to compensate if anybody has an IS SmartSwitch that is not the bad relay version, or knows how to make one and would be willing to help me out.  Or if anyone has any ideas for a guy who is incompetent with Valkyerie electrical systems.

I'm stuck!

Battery is good, starts engine right up.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I don’t have the smart switch. Always meant to order one, but waited too long. I don’t remember any resistors being involved with it. Just relays and proper wiring. I’m wondering if you have a loose or bad connection on the relay.

[Valkorado]

Relays, my mistake.   I've looked it over, it looks professionally made.  I do remember Bon admitting some of the relays were bad in one of his batches, and he had some complaints of failed units.  If my recollector serves me, he corrected the problem.  

I think Bon moved out of the country years ago.

Checked all the connections, they seem solid.  All the other electrical stuff seems to be functioning fine.  Only the headlights are affected.  Also, the headlight fuse is fine.  When removed, the dim flickering lights are snuffed out.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Relays, my mistake.   I've looked it over, it looks professionally made.  I do remember Bon admitting some of the relays were bad in one of his batches, and he had some complaints of failed units.  If my recollector serves me, he corrected the problem.  

I think Bon moved out of the country years ago.

Checked all the connections, they seem solid.  All the other electrical stuff seems to be functioning fine.  Only the headlights are affected.  Also, the headlight fuse is fine.  When removed, the dim flickering lights are snuffed out.

Relays are pretty cheap. It wouldn’t cost much to make a run to an auto parts store and put in a new one. This seems to me (other than loose connections on the relay) the only thing it could be. Especially since that seems to be the only electrical issue. I think a good quality relay shouldn’t run but $10 or so.

(Yeah, I think he retired to South Korea)

[Valkorado]

His unit is pretty much self contained.  His wiring is very professionally heat shrinked and wrapped in a braided cover.  It would be beyond my ability to tear it apart and try to track down the culprit resistor(s).  Heck, it'll be a challenge for me to route a new one properly.

I'm exhausted.  I'll sleep on it.  Or not sleep on it.  

[The emperor has no clothes]

His unit is pretty much self contained.  His wiring is very professionally heat shrinked and wrapped in a braided cover.  It would be beyond my ability to tear it apart and try to track down the culprit resistor(s).  Heck, it'll be a challenge for me to route a new one properly.

I'm exhausted.  I'll sleep on it.  Or not sleep on it.  

I believe there would be only one relay. I think it would be up front in the headlamp bucket on a Standard, and in the fairing of the Interstate. It shouldn’t be too hard to locate. About an inch and a half cube. It will look like this :

[The emperor has no clothes]

After thinking about it, there MAY be 2 relays. One for low beam and one for the high beam. Have you tried both high and low beam to see what happens ?

[Valkorado]

After thinking about it, there MAY be 2 relays. One for low beam and one for the high beam. Have you tried both high and low beam to see what happens ?

Thanks for helping me brainstorm.

Yeah, both wonky.  I'll  look for relays.  If there are any on the Smart Switch they're hidden behind heat wrap.  

Sucks that this is the only issue keeping me from riding (this bike, anyway).  And the low 80s are here.   Remember those?
I think you see them around Christmas!  

[The emperor has no clothes]

After thinking about it, there MAY be 2 relays. One for low beam and one for the high beam. Have you tried both high and low beam to see what happens ?

Thanks for helping me brainstorm.

Yeah, both wonky.  I'll  look for relays.  If there are any on the Smart Switch they're hidden behind heat wrap.  

Sucks that this is the only issue keeping me from riding (this bike, anyway).  And the low 80s are here.   Remember those?
I think you see them around Christmas!  

yeah it seems about that long ago. If there are 2 relays, it seems very dubious that they would both go bad at the same time. Before you go tearing into the wiring looking for the relay (either 1 or 2) I’d check the connection at the battery and make sure the wiring for the smart switch hasn’t come loose. This is assuming it’s direct wired to the battery and not thru a fuse block. If it’s thru a fuse block, that would be the first connection I’d look at. You will get it. It’s likely something simple. 

[Valkorado]

After thinking about it, there MAY be 2 relays. One for low beam and one for the high beam. Have you tried both high and low beam to see what happens ?

Thanks for helping me brainstorm.

Yeah, both wonky.  I'll  look for relays.  If there are any on the Smart Switch they're hidden behind heat wrap.  

Sucks that this is the only issue keeping me from riding (this bike, anyway).  And the low 80s are here.   Remember those?
I think you see them around Christmas!  

yeah it seems about that long ago. If there are 2 relays, it seems very dubious that they would both go bad at the same time. Before you go tearing into the wiring looking for the relay (either 1 or 2) I’d check the connection at the battery and make sure the wiring for the smart switch hasn’t come loose. This is assuming it’s direct wired to the battery and not thru a fuse block. If it’s thru a fuse block, that would be the first connection I’d look at. You will get it. It’s likely something simple.  

Thanks.  I'll get out today and investigate some more.  My investigations don't always lead to diagnosis...

Found an aftermarket relay behind the right side panel,  looks like five wires spade connected to it.  Hopefully that'll be the culprit.   The connections look good,  but I'm going to try to track down a new one to be sure.  I'll take pictures of the wiring first so I won't be scratching my head over where they go when I install a new one.

[Valkorado]

Wasn't the OEM wires/connectors left behind, just swap them over?

I hate saying it, but my SmartSwitch for the IS I have I can't use because I have a head light modulator installed, and want to keep that more than the direct wiring. I don't know if someone local might want it, no ones asked yet.

Well, I'm not local but I may want it!  I'd pay what it's worth, plus shipping from B.C..

[Valkorado]

Well I had a feeling that relay would be too easy.  It's for a BigBF quad horn that was installed.   I still haven't located the Smart Switch relays.

Re: the hi/lo beam question.  I'm getting nada on hi, and now only the right bulb barely aflicker on lo beam.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Well I had a feeling that relay would be too easy.  It's for a BigBF quad horn that was installed.   I still haven't located the Smart Switch relays.

Re: the hi/lo beam question.  I'm getting nada on hi, and now only the right bulb barely aflicker on lo beam.

I would look up in the fairing. I’m pretty sure BonS designed the Standard setup to fit in the head lamp bucket. I would assume he designed the Interstate system similar.

[Valkorado]

Well I had a feeling that relay would be too easy.  It's for a BigBF quad horn that was installed.   I still haven't located the Smart Switch relays.

Re: the hi/lo beam question.  I'm getting nada on hi, and now only the right bulb barely aflicker on lo beam.

I would look up in the fairing. I’m pretty sure BonS designed the Standard setup to fit in the head lamp bucket. I would assume he designed the Interstate system similar.

Will do.  I'm taking a break from the electrical side for awhile.  It's really maddening for me.  You'd think after getting rear ended on Ruby and replacing the trunk with speakers (and the rear fender with a Tourer taillight mod and custom trailer wiring) and having to switch out the whole wiring harness last year would have taught me some patience.  It was a real ordeal for me to get that all up!  It didn't, I have no patience for wiring or electrical diagnostic skills.  I sold my 99 Interstate Big Bertha mainly because of a nest of "custom" wiring from the PO.  Took me around 10 minutes to tuck his wiring away enough to get to the battery, and the spaghetti mound of wiring under the fairing was scary, must have weighed ten pounds!

I'm still afraid this may be one of Bon's "bad" Smart Switches that he mentioned.  If that's the case I'm not sure what I can do.   

I'll focus on getting the Bullet running now, the petcock arrived this afternoon but I won't have a chance to work on it until tomorrow...

[Avanti]

There are two mini relays that are shrink rapped. Some of the solder connections did not get neutralize and caused corrosion. These are a plug n play so you should be able to unplug them from the original harness and plug back into the light bulbs.

[Valker]

Look here. This may have the direct replacement. http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/H4_Kits/h4_kits.html

[Valkorado]

Look here. This may have the direct replacement. http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/H4_Kits/h4_kits.html

Interesting!  Thank you.

I emailed the owner, waiting to hear back from him.  His setup isn't as pretty as BonS', but it is basically the same thing.  I just want to make sure he has a dual headlight setup that will "plug and play" nice -- all wires long enough to work with, etc..  I sure don't need any headaches now. 

I'd about give my left nut for a BonS replacement unit like Avanti found.

[Avanti]

Keep in mind that when the headlights are wired properly during the start sequence they are automatically turned off.

[Valkorado]

Keep in mind that when the headlights are wired properly during the start sequence they are automatically turned off.

Understood.  They're wacked out with the engine running as well.

[Valkorado]

There are two mini relays that are shrink rapped. Some of the solder connections did not get neutralize and caused corrosion. These are a plug n play so you should be able to unplug them from the original harness and plug back into the light bulbs.

Thanks,  I'll look into this.   Any headlight is sure better than none.

BTW, I did wash the bike a few days ago for the first time in a long time (it needed it desperately).  I always cover up handlebar switches and stuff like usb chargers before doing so, and I always rinse with a low pressure wide spray.  I did wash and rinse the headlight glass, FWIW.

Did you acquire one of the bad ones?

[Valkorado]

Flickering? Dim?  A relay failure usually means 100% off.  (A rare exception is the old horn relays that could stick the contacts together and stay on.)  A relay has no flickering in-between, just ON or OFF.  If you are getting a partial flow of voltage that makes the lights dim or flicker, there is likely a bad connection in the circuit powering the lights.  

Can you measure the voltage going into that switching unit?  Should be about 13.  Every point you measure in the circuit must be about 13 or zero.  Anything else is a bad connection, which is typically the failure which results from owner-applied wiring.

Best of luck with it.  Let me know if I can further assist you.

Thanks very much Pluggy.  Your explanation sounds logical -- it's seems a tiny  bit of power is flowing, but not even enough to fully power up the LED bulbs.  

That said, the flicker means me think Avanti might be onto something there and maybe corrosion is causing those mini relays to hardly function, but they're trying...

Dim is an understatement, it's like a one lumen candle power flickering.   I hope the flickering doesn't totally fry my bulbs before I get it figured out...  I don't  want to say if...  Trying to stay positive here.

Unfortunately testing electrical connections is not in my current skill set.

[RonW]

I'm guessing BonS did it like the schematic below. In brief, when the hi/low switch is in the B position, Wire B powers the low-beams through the low-beam relay. When the switch is in the A position, Wire A powers the hi-beams via the hi-beam relay and simultaneously shuts off the low-beam. Visa versa.




The Smart Switch isolates the start button from high current on a Standard/Tourer by adding relays. The relays are redundant on an I/S since the I/S already has onboard headlight relays (shaded area in schematic above).

I gather that the benefit of a Smart Switch on an I/S is brighter lights due to the headlights' direct connection to the battery. If you can find the onboard relays, specifically Wire A and Wire B, you can wire up the respective low and hi beams. It's not necessary to wire in relays to get things up and running.

The I/S factory headlight relays should be located at some point on the wire between the headlight sockets and the hi/low selector switch on the left handlebar. Which ever end you like start tracing is up to you.

[Valkorado]

Thanks Ron.  Deciphering electrical schematics is kinda like trying to read a foreign language for me.    

Maybe the Smart Swutch makes the headlights brighter, but with the supernova bright LED bulbs I use I wish it hadn't been installed at all.  Sometimes customized stuff is a custom pain in the ass. 

Leave functional OEM stuff well enough alone.  And ride!

[Avanti]

There are two mini relays that are shrink rapped. Some of the solder connections did not get neutralize and caused corrosion. These are a plug n play so you should be able to unplug them from the original harness and plug back into the light bulbs.

Thanks,  I'll look into this.   Any headlight is sure better than none.

BTW, I did wash the bike a few days ago for the first time in a long time (it needed it desperately).  I always cover up handlebar switches and stuff like usb chargers before doing so, and I always rinse with a low pressure wide spray.  I did wash and rinse the headlight glass, FWIW.

Did you acquire one of the bad ones?

Yes, the replacement I believe is sealed with epoxy.

[Avanti]

I'm guessing BonS did it like the schematic below. In brief, when the hi/low switch is in the B position, Wire B powers the low-beams through the low-beam relay. When the switch is in the A position, Wire A powers the hi-beams via the hi-beam relay and simultaneously shuts off the low-beam. Visa versa.




The Smart Switch isolates the start button from high current on a Standard/Tourer via relays which is redundant on an I/S since the I/S already has onboard headlight relays (shaded area in schematic above).

I gather that the benefit of a Smart Switch on an I/S is brighter lights due to the headlights' direct connection to the battery. If you can find the onboard relays, specifically Wire A and Wire B, you can wire up the respective low and hi beams. It's not necessary to wire in relays to get things up and running again.

The I/S factory headlight relays should be located at some point on the wire between the headlight sockets and the hi/low selector switch on the left handlebar. Which ever end you like start tracing is up to you.

The IS relays are front left corner of battery box behind the left side cover along with the radio and turn signal relays.

[Valkorado]

There are two mini relays that are shrink rapped. Some of the solder connections did not get neutralize and caused corrosion. These are a plug n play so you should be able to unplug them from the original harness and plug back into the light bulbs.

Thanks,  I'll look into this.   Any headlight is sure better than none.

BTW, I did wash the bike a few days ago for the first time in a long time (it needed it desperately).  I always cover up handlebar switches and stuff like usb chargers before doing so, and I always rinse with a low pressure wide spray.  I did wash and rinse the headlight glass, FWIW.

Did you acquire one of the bad ones?

Yes, the replacement I believe is sealed with epoxy.

So you were lucky enough to get a replacement from Bon?

[Avanti]

There are two mini relays that are shrink rapped. Some of the solder connections did not get neutralize and caused corrosion. These are a plug n play so you should be able to unplug them from the original harness and plug back into the light bulbs.

Thanks,  I'll look into this.   Any headlight is sure better than none.

BTW, I did wash the bike a few days ago for the first time in a long time (it needed it desperately).  I always cover up handlebar switches and stuff like usb chargers before doing so, and I always rinse with a low pressure wide spray.  I did wash and rinse the headlight glass, FWIW.

Did you acquire one of the bad ones?

Yes, the replacement I believe is sealed with epoxy.

So you were lucky enough to get a replacement from Bon?

Yes

[Valkorado]

The wire from the Bon device must have a really clean and tight connection at the battery.  Shiny clean.  Even if you already cleaned it, do it again.....it is easy.  The power your LEDs need passes through that connection.

Again, I'm 99% convinced this unit is bad.  Thinking it was corroded and I got some water in it when I was recently washing the bike.  AGAIN, if anyone on the planet has a BonS Smart Switch for Interstates that they would part with I will certainly make it well worth your while.  I am in dire straits here!!!

[Valkorado]

Sorry I can't stop by and fix it for you.  One thing you might want to do is get a multimeter and learn how to measure 12 volts.  Some meters are less than $20.  Get a few flashlight and radio batteries out and see how easy it is to measure volts.  Guys who know how to do this find it a valuable lifetime skill.

The next time you have something like this happen, you will be The Man!

Well, if I can't figure this out I may offer you a round trip airline ticket and all the BBQ  you can eat!!!  Rather do that than take it to a stealer!

Good advice, and I will do this.  I have always looked at DC wiring as magic when it works, and witchcraft when it doesn't.  I hate it.

I know it's not anything major, as all the other electrical stuff on the bike is working as it should, including all wiring I did swapping and and splicing the OEM harness with the old one when  I replaced the smashed trunk with speakers and rear fender with the Tourer taillight mod and custom trailer wiring.  All blinkers front and rear,  flashing brake lights, stereo, USB chargers, etc. are all getting power and working properly.

It has to be from the bath Ruby took the day before, the Smart Switch must have got douched.  Damn.  I think I should maybe dry wash these bikes from here on out, but it probably would have eventually had issues in a bad rainstorm and left me stranded grounded by a State Trooper in no man's land somewhere. Gotta get this fixed...

[Valkorado]

Can you carefully slice it open and investigate?  Maybe there's an easy fix.  If the thing is headed for the trash can, what do you have to lose?

That'll be my final step I guess.

[Avanti]

I cut mine open and cleaned it, Bon wanted it back to see why it failed. You can always buy new relays and replace the failed ones. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

I cut mine open and cleaned it, Bon wanted it back to see why it failed. You can always buy new relays and replace the failed ones. 

Doesn’t it seem odd that both relays would fail at the same time ?

[The emperor has no clothes]

I agree Mr. Meathead.  It is possible, but unlikely, that both relays failed.  And, as one LED is getting some low voltage, the relay for that light is probably good.  I'll make a guess that the assembly is wet inside -or- there is a soldering or connection defect that failed somewhere.

There are moisture proof relays, for places like under the hood of a car.  I don't know what is in the Bon unit.  Unfortunately, the Bon product in our friend's bike is probably of little benefit as he is now using LED's (that draw a lot less current).

Yeah, I was wondering about that also.

Valkorado, you ought to be able to just unhook the SmartSwitch wiring and hook up the stock wiring set up and be fine.

[Avanti]

I cut mine open and cleaned it, Bon wanted it back to see why it failed. You can always buy new relays and replace the failed ones. 

Doesn’t it seem odd that both relays would fail at the same time ?

The relays did not fail. The terminal corrosion caused a cross connection.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I cut mine open and cleaned it, Bon wanted it back to see why it failed. You can always buy new relays and replace the failed ones. 

Doesn’t it seem odd that both relays would fail at the same time ?

The relays did not fail. The terminal corrosion caused a cross connection.

So a cleaning of them could solve the issue ? That seems more logical. 

[Valkorado]

Valkorado, you ought to be able to just unhook the SmartSwitch wiring and hook up the stock wiring set up and be fine.

I hope so.  Just had no luck with the Silver Bullet.  Pretty fried right now.  I almost feel a drunk coming on, but I don't get drunk...

Prolly tear into Ruby's fairing manyana...

[Valkorado]

It was the Smart Switch after all!  Rob was right, the OEM plugs were under the fairing, and very tucked away and hidden.  IMHO -- at least if you're running LED bulbs -- the Switch is unnecessary.  This one was filled  with silicone all around the  relays in an attempt to waterproof it.  It obviously didn't work.  I haven't dissected them yet.

I'll try to remember to post pics tomorrow.  I'm guessing  the corrosion had already begun and washing the bike the other  day was the last straw.

Thanks very much all for your help with this wild goose chase!

Now back to the Silver Bullet.  

[The emperor has no clothes]

It was the Smart Switch after all!  Rob was right, the OEM plugs were under the fairing, and very tucked away and hidden.  IMHO -- at least if you're running LED bulbs -- the Switch is unnecessary.  This one was filled  with silicone all around the  relays in an attempt to waterproof it.  It obviously didn't work.  I haven't dissected them yet.

I'll try to remember to post pics tomorrow.  I'm guessing  the corrosion had already begun and washing the bike the other  day was the last straw.

Thanks very much all for your help with this wild goose chase!

Now back to the Silver Bullet.  

Glad you got it figured out. It always seems worse when you are knee deep in it.