Bike handling question

[Timbo1]

I have a question regarding bike feel / handling and I'm not exactly sure how to describe it.  But I have 2 valks both 98 standards.  I've had the blue one since about 2003.  I've never had a problem with her and always enjoy riding her.  But late last year I picked up a black 98 and I'm finding it feels much more agile, rigid or stable almost like it has a lower center of gravity.  Everything is set the same on shocks, seat height & type, handlebars and all the measurements I've done have come out the same.  I've put the blue one on the jack and checked for play in wheel bearings, swingarm, triple trees, shock bushings and I cant find any wiggle anywhere.  Now the blue bike hasn't changed it's always road like it does today, and it's not a bad ride by any means and I would have never knew if I hadn't rode the black one to feel the difference.   I've went through several different brands of tires on the blue bike and it's never felt as agile as the black one does so I'm looking for suggestions on what else I could look for. 

[hubcapsc]

I guess you don't know as much about the black bike? Maybe the
previous owner put an un-worn-out set of Interstate shocks on it?
Maybe he recently rebuilt the forks?

-Mike

[Valker]

How are the upper shock bushings?

[Timbo1]

I guess you don't know as much about the black bike? Maybe the
previous owner put an un-worn-out set of Interstate shocks on it?
Maybe he recently rebuilt the forks?

-Mike

I don't know if the shocks are interstate or not on the black bike but I doubt it.  I think I have all the paperwork of what was done on it and the person I purchased it from only looks like he did routine maintenance.  The owner before him added a bit of bling but nothing special.  You bring up a good point though with the shocks.  Maybe I'll swap them over and see if there's a difference.  Actually I did seals & oil on the blue bike forks awhile back and it rides smoother now but that's not what I'm talking about.  I'm thinking more of a side to side, response to leans etc...  

[Timbo1]

How are the upper shock bushings?

On the black bike they're bad and need replaced (split).  On the blue bike they look good.  Been thinking about trying to turn some out of delrin just to try but haven't yet.  Maybe I should put the bad ones on the blue bike lol...

[98valk]

different front tire?  front tire affects handling the most

[Jess from VA]

different front tire?  front tire affects handling the most

Beat me to it.  

All other things being nearly equal, tires would be my look-see.

I have two black interstates (set up nearly identically, except handlebar risers), and one is permanently trunk-less/back seat-less.  That one is the easier, nimbler rider.  The trunk does not weigh much (mostly empty), but it is a sail.

And one goes over a lot more on the kickstand, but there are no kickstand crossmember mount bends or damage on either one.  

[Timbo1]

different front tire?  front tire affects handling the most

They both have ME880 fronts presently.  I've never rode the black with anything else but I've had a few different brands on the blue bike and it's always handled the same.

[Timbo1]

Beat me to it.   

All other things being nearly equal tires would be my look-see.

I have two black interstates (set up nearly identically, except handlebar risers), and one is permanently trunk-less/back seat-less.  That one is the easier, nimbler rider.  The truck does not weigh much (mostly empty), but it is a sail.

And one goes over a lot more on the kickstand, but there are no kickstand crossmember mount bends or damage on either one. 

That's the word I was looking for "nimbler".
I have made the black bike into a solo, never rode it with the passenger seat and back rest.  But I do have passenger seat, back rest & luggage rack on the blue one.  I may try taking that off sometime idk.  It's not a big deal I was just looking for suggestions and to see if anyone has had similar experiences.

[Chrisj CMA]

I once owned a second Valkyrie that was a tourer. It too was more nimble than my red and white “Cobra” bike. I attributed the difference to that the tourer had risers installed. Lifted and pulled back the bars just a bit. Maybe that’s it. Hard to notice if it’s not a radical set of risers.

[hubcapsc]

I guess you don't know as much about the black bike? Maybe the
previous owner put an un-worn-out set of Interstate shocks on it?
Maybe he recently rebuilt the forks?

-Mike

I don't know if the shocks are interstate or not on the black bike but I doubt it.  I think I have all the paperwork of what was done on it and the person I purchased it from only looks like he did routine maintenance.  The owner before him added a bit of bling but nothing special.  You bring up a good point though with the shocks.  Maybe I'll swap them over and see if there's a difference.  Actually I did seals & oil on the blue bike forks awhile back and it rides smoother now but that's not what I'm talking about.  I'm thinking more of a side to side, response to leans etc...  

If one of the other owners put Progressive springs or something like
that in the black bike's forks... ?

-Mike

[Warlock]

Check your shock bushings. Also check the steering bearings. Several things to check. Air pressure. I have found sometimes a bad tire, even if it looks good can be bad.
David

[Pluggy]

Most Honda parts suppliers now sell the VTX shock bushings as replacements for the original Valkyrie part number.  It says so on the parts diagram diagram.  The green elastomer on the VTX item makes the part last longer. 

Our bikes have a front tire that is unusually large.  I find it needs to be maintained at an exact pressure for best handling.  On mine, 39psi.  Not 40 or 38, gotta be 39.  Your bike, tire and load may have a different pressure that works best.  Trying this is easy.

[..]

I've never ridden a Valkyrie and thought WOW that feels just like that other Valkyrie.

It's a strange feeling.

[WintrSol]

With all your measurements, did you measure the distance from the bottom edge of the rear fender to the ground, with someone about your weight sitting on them? Since I have air suspension on the back, I can change the handling from sluggish to nimble with the press of a button, by raising the back.

[Timbo1]

With all your measurements, did you measure the distance from the bottom edge of the rear fender to the ground, with someone about your weight sitting on them? Since I have air suspension on the back, I can change the handling from sluggish to nimble with the press of a button, by raising the back.

No I have not done that,  all measurments I've taken have been with the bikes sitting on kickstand.  I will check that when I can gather up a helper.   So your saying higher in the rear makes yours more nimble? 

Thanks all for the input,  its provided me a few other things to look into but I'm really starting to think it's probably like @britman stated

"I've never ridden a Valkyrie and thought WOW that feels just like that other Valkyrie."

[WintrSol]

Yes, raising the back reduces rake and trail, not a lot, but enough to handle more like a 'Wing. The amount of R&T affects turn in; a lot and you cruise the Interstates, a little and you ride the Dragon.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Yes, raising the back reduces rake and trail, not a lot, but enough to handle more like a 'Wing. The amount of R&T affects turn in; a lot and you cruise the Interstates, a little and you ride the Dragon.

Yes, with a 150/70 front and a 205/65 rear I could notice a difference 

[WintrSol]

Which brings up another measurement, the actual angle of the forks relative to the ground. If the front was lowered on your reference bike, that angle will be steeper.

[98valk]

Yes, raising the back reduces rake and trail, not a lot, but enough to handle more like a 'Wing. The amount of R&T affects turn in; a lot and you cruise the Interstates, a little and you ride the Dragon.

Only the trail can be affected by the triple tree offset (I put I/S triple trees which have more offset on my std/tourer) and the front and rear suspension height adjustments which also includes tire diameters.
 Rake is set by the frame and the triple trees.

http://www.seegercycle.com/Rake-and-Trail.aspx

[WintrSol]

True, the physical rake is set by the hardware, but the angle between the forks and pavement will change if you tilt that frame, so the caster angle changes. Some articles I've read loosely define rake angle as the angle between the fork and ground. In any case, raising or lowering the back changes how nimble the bike feels.

[DeathWishBikerDude]

I own 2 1997 models and 2 98 models.
They all ride the same.
Tires make the biggest difference in ride quality.