new vehicle purchase 3K above full msrp

[cookiedough]

Been calling around trying to find a new 2021 tundra SR5 double cab (NONE around) and ONLY dealership within 300 mile radius is in a suburb of Chicago IL having one I was interested in.

UNTIL calling just now:  since in HOT demand,  they think someone is stupid enough to spend 3 grand over full msrp window sticker.   I told them good luck, will not be me.  

Who in their right mind pays 3K over full msrp for any vehicle?  

All the dealerships in WI I called looking for one says if they had one would be full msrp paid no discount.  I can deal with since NONE around paying near 2K difference between dealer invoice and full msrp window sticker is all, but then an extra 3 grand they gotta be outta their mind.

Yet another reason to stay clear of ILLINOIS.  Last time we tried buying a new vehicle 2 hours away from me at an ILLINOIS dealership 2 years ago AFTER I put 500 bucks down to hold the vehicle for me and scheduled time on a Saturday to take delivery, the new vehicle was NOWHERE to be found and was a DEMO MODEL NOT NEW loaned out over the weekend to someone to drive since vehicle in shop for repairs.    I got my 500 bucks back and told them to F off in NOT such a polite way, just lucky EVERYONE within a 100 yard radius heard me cussing out the sales managers for being dishonest.

I heard CARMAX buying outright used vehicles even 1 year old giving customers 2 grand over what they paid for it new 1 year ago.  Are people really that desperate to spend OVER what a new vehicle (in this case a truck) costs for a 1 year old vehicle with say 15K miles on it?  

this whole economy is in turmoil and those people who MUST HAVE and spend 2-3 grand over full msrp must be insane, agree?  

I am actually tempted to go into a carmax dealership and get a buy outright price on my 2017 tundra truck to see if they will give me 36K ONLY paid  38K for it 4 years ago?  In my area and probably the whole country,  the tundra is in such short supply you never know?  I can live without a truck (I guess) for the time being until this economy is not so crazy.

[Bighead]

What is wrong with your 2017?

[old2soon]

       All ya gotta did is recollect when the Miata came out. Pepole were throwin money at the dealers. Heard some folks paid couple G over msrp and then doubled their money soon after selling the one they just bought. RIDE SAFE.

[Patrick]

Tundra ? Worst vehicle I've ever owned !

[Rams]

The shortage of a computer chip for new vehicle production is driving this shortage of vehicles on dealer's lots.   That's also driving up used vehicle prices.   Some blame the COVD-19 global pandemic.   I really don't know.    Personally, unless I had to have a new vehicle now, I would be waiting till prices go back down to a reasonable price.   Wait, they were already overpriced.  Shrug..............

Rams

[cookiedough]

The shortage of a computer chip for new vehicle production is driving this shortage of vehicles on dealer's lots.   That's also driving up used vehicle prices.   Some blame the COVD-19 global pandemic.   I really don't know.    Personally, unless I had to have a new vehicle now, I would be waiting till prices go back down to a reasonable price.   Wait, they were already overpriced.  Shrug..............

Rams

yah, chip shortage is only a part of the high pricing.  Toyota cut 2021 production off early and NO more ordering tundras out 1-2 months ago so what is coming in is coming in nearly all pre-sold already.  Reason why cutting off ordering is the 2022 tundra is ALL NEW inside and out, suppose to be a game changer which means twin turbo 3.5L V6 which I do not want vs. tried and true V8.  V6 suppose to get 21 mpg or so vs. my 17 but is a truck do NOT care too much about mpg.  Also suppose to have around 430hp std. vs my 381 hp which is plenty.   1st year runs for any mfg. is iffy at best with issues.  Although the tundra in 2007 was game changer biggest most powerful V8 with 6 speed tranny (most all still have 4 speed),  they even had issues with poor paint quality and severe rust on chrome and thru the paint.  that issue got resolved in 2009 since even a few 2008's still had rust and poor paint issues.

Another part is toyota never makes enough tundra's for any dealership ever to have more than say 3 to 5 on their lot at once unless gas goes up to 3.50 or more per gallon (which it might pushing 3 bucks now).    ONLY ONE assembly plant in San Antonio TX vs. the big 3 am sure has several assembly plants whether in Canada, Mexico, or US, etc.    This keeps high demand, low supply with high resale and high trade in value always.

Nothing wrong with my 2017 tundra just want to get one of the last V8's before going to twin turbo V6.  Plus,  I checked my insurance and new 2021 tundra will go down 80 bucks every 6 months since the newer tundras have 'safety sense' as std., mine does not, giving it adaptive cruise control,  lane departure, blind spot monitoring sensors.  Insurance companies think that makes drivers better and safer I guess?  Another reason to trade in is tundra trade in value is at an all time high NONE on lots at all pretty sure I can get 34K trade in value paid 38K 4 years ago.  What other vehicle ONLY depreciates 1 grand per year?   Even if I have to pay full msrp which I will being a 2K markup from dealer cost to full msrp,  is a good deal new at 42.5K considering trade in value is at least 2K higher now.  However, paying 3K above full msrp is not going to happen and of course has to be in ILLINOIS vs. WI where suburb of Chicago dealer's think they can rip consumers off by gouging 3 grand over full msrp vs. all WI dealers are selling at full msrp.

Major problem is NONE around to be had.  There are a few crewmax's to be had, but no double cabs in SR5 mid level trim.  I will never go 5'8" bed length vs. 6.5 ft ever again there is no need for 8 inches of rear seat legroom when a double cab tundra has enough rear legroom and comfy enough rear seats if under 6 ft. tall.  The double cab in the tundra has by far the best rear seat comfort and most rear seat legroom of any of the other big 3 ext. cabs do.  There are a few higher priced TRD sports but then again,  that msrp goes from say 43K to 47K and not worth it to me that much more for nicer rims and firmer suspension is all you really get of any value.   

I might even take my tundra to a local CARMAX since have heard they are giving TOP dollar, especially for trucks, am sure more than a toyota dealer will give me.  My neighbor's kid took his 1 year old chevy silverado trail boss to them 1 year after owning since new and got 2 grand over what he paid for it.  I can live without a full size truck a few months,  but still need it the 6-10 x's per year I need a 6.5ft bed to haul stuff and not willing to drive 30+ miles to rent a u-haul for a 30 minute commute usually.  I have a 14 ft fishing boat and 16 ft canoe and near 6 ft long ice shelter, etc. etc.  I toss in the bed and 5.5 ft will not work too short and unsafe even the 6.5ft bed is pushing it strapped down need over 1/2 in the bed IMO to be safer.   10 inches shorter does not seem much in the bed of the truck, but still remember in 2007 when I reluctantly bought a chevy crewmax 5'8" bed and could not close the tailgate  by a mere 2 inches when I had my kids youth ATV inside along with totes stacked 2 high, etc. etc. and unable to close the tailgate on our family vacation.  I traded it in soon after 2007 for the tundra and have not driven a truck anything else since. 

the chevy silverado 6.2L V8 interests me as well with crew cab 6.5' bed length but those are rare as well.

[Beardo]

Coworker of mine got a call from the dealer he bought his truck from 5 years ago. They offered him what he paid for the truck when he bought it 5 years ago, and he put 80,000 km on it. Straight cash, he didn’t need to trade it in on a vehicle from them. They’re desperate for trucks, especially diesels.   He took the deal and put in an order on a new truck at another dealer. Will have to wait but it’s not his main vehicle and he can wait.

He has to pony up another $30 grand to get the new truck but was too hard to pass up getting no depreciation on his 5 year old truck.

I know several other guys who have had the same offer. I suspect they’re getting shipped to the States where the higher dollar and demand makes it somehow worth it.

[f6john]

All good problems to have I suppose. I had a chance to buy a 2017 Chevy top of the line “High Country” with 19,000 miles for $38k which was a great price compared to other similar trucks at the time. But that is still $38k for a truck that really won’t do anything that my 2005 Titan can’t do. Even though the Titan has 192,000 miles, it’s not beat up, has zero rust, and has been very reliable.

Im sure if I were in the midst of my wage earning years I’d have a different view of what was more important and necessary.

[Robert]

Many not wanting to or not able to afford another payment are using their vehicles longer. This market would normally turn over their vehicles every three to five years. Now with cars lasting longer and looking better why do it. Yes chips do have some sway but people are not in the flush money category as much as before.

[Jack B]

Why take it to Carmax just sell it on your own you’ll make out much better.
A friend was offered $15,300 from Carmax for this mustang and a Ford dealer give him $16,500.
New cars and trucks are selling at full price now compared to the last few years where they would discount trucks $10,000 to $12,000. And like you said used is sell at top dollar.

[Jess from VA]

Coworker of mine got a call from the dealer he bought his truck from 5 years ago. They offered him what he paid for the truck when he bought it 5 years ago, and he put 80,000 km on it. Straight cash, he didn’t need to trade it in on a vehicle from them.

Man I wish they had these deals, for wives, like 12 years ago.

No trade in, just a straight sale.   

[JimC]

I am waiting for Carvana to come pick up my 2018 F150.
I leased it when it was new for less than $300 a month and I put 28,400 miles on it. My lease buy out was $24,000 (plus tax) and Carvana is giving me $35,450.

That offer is only a few thousand less than the sticker price was when new, and it sure beats just handing the keys over to the dealer.

Jim

[Tundra]

JimC,
How does that work (I've never leased)?
Do you first have to do the buyout to get the title in your name, then turn it over to Carvana for a profit?

[Valker]

Above MSRP is why I’m on a Valkyrie. I went to the Harley dealer to get a new Road King in 1999. They wanted $2000 over MSRP because popularity. I refuse to pad that. I went to the Honda dealer and told them that story. He showed me the Valk and said “How about $2000 under MSRP?”  I’ve been on it for the past 22 years and 190,000 miles.

[cookiedough]

Why take it to Carmax just sell it on your own you’ll make out much better.
A friend was offered $15,300 from Carmax for this mustang and a Ford dealer give him $16,500.
New cars and trucks are selling at full price now compared to the last few years where they would discount trucks $10,000 to $12,000. And like you said used is sell at top dollar.

sales tax savings on trade in that is why.  let's say new truck cost me 43K that is 5.5% sales tax so about 2400 bucks MORE I would have to sell my truck for over what the dealer would give me for trade in to break even.  I could probably do it, but not much more than 2500 or so.  Never hurts to try say sell my 2017 for 3K over trade in value dealer gives me?

I could live without a truck for a few months, but cannot even order a new 2021 tundra from any dealer no longer ordering 2021's cutting production off few months ago already to re-tool for the all NEWLY redesigned 2022 tundra.

[cookiedough]

I am waiting for Carvana to come pick up my 2018 F150.
I leased it when it was new for less than $300 a month and I put 28,400 miles on it. My lease buy out was $24,000 (plus tax) and Carvana is giving me $35,450.

That offer is only a few thousand less than the sticker price was when new, and it sure beats just handing the keys over to the dealer.

Jim

that is a great deal 35.4K even with such low mileage for a 2018 ford f150.  Like said,  if I can get 34 to 35K tops paid 38K 4 years ago that is a great trade in price even if I have to pay full msrp at 43K on a new 2021 tundra,  if ONLY I could find one.   Each year since been keeping track of msrp of trucks since mid 2000's the msrp keeps going up apples to apples near 1 grand per year.  I hear the all NEW 2022 redesigned tundra will be apples to apples comparison much more than 1 grand up over a similar 2021 tundra, will see, but am guessing it will be come December 2021 when they are out or early 2022.  Toyota, unlike the big 3,  is always the slowest to re-tool and redesign their trucks (and other vehicles).  NO other mfg. of trucks can say they had the same engine and transmission from 2007 to 2021 current new models without changing a darn thing.    Their motto and I am in agreement, if it is not broke, do not change/fix it.  Problem is more consumers want more and more and more of hp/torque and better mpg and 10 vs. 6 speed trannys.  I have no issues with my 6 speed tranny and 381 ponies plenty for me, although 20 vs. 17 mpg would be nice....

I priced out a NEW chevy silverado and darn things msrp are what I want 52K - OUCH!  Even with 2 grand in rebates and say another 2-3K tops off msrp,  that is still outta my price range at say 47K.  43K is plenty for me.

If I feel like wasting 2 hours sitting at a dealership to get trade in value,  I might this Monday just to see what they say, although will do not much good if they cannot find me a 2021 new tundra or get nearly what I want thru their allocated orders coming in already in their system.

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

Above MSRP is why I’m on a Valkyrie. I went to the Harley dealer to get a new Road King in 1999. They wanted $2000 over MSRP because popularity. I refuse to pad that. I went to the Honda dealer and told them that story. He showed me the Valk and said “How about $2000 under MSRP?”  I’ve been on it for the past 22 years and 190,000 miles.

I will never buy a Harley again. I had one back in the early 90s. In (I think) 1997, I went to my local dealer and ordered a new FXDWG. Demand was huge at that point. When my bike (built for me) showed up, I got a call saying it was in. When I got there, my bike, with my last name on the "sold tag", was sitting on the side of the sales floor, looking awesome. So awesome that somebody else offered them, so they said anyway, 5K over sticker for it. I said too bad, since it was ordered for me. They said I could up the ante, and we'd negotiate. I told them I wasn't playing that game. I would have written this off as a dirty dealer/sales manager, but I called HD customer service and was told that independent dealers can set pricing as they see fit, and they wouldn't intervene. Haven't had or wanted a Harley since. If you weren't there for me when your times were good, I'm not here for you when you're on the ropes. I don't badmouth them to my friends. I have several friends that ride and love their Harley's. I'm all set though.

[JimC]

JimC,
How does that work (I've never leased)?
Do you first have to do the buyout to get the title in your name, then turn it over to Carvana for a profit?

Yes, that is exactly how it worked for me.

Jim

[h13man]

https://www.bosakauto.com/inventory/certified-used-2021-toyota-tundra-sr5-4wd-4d-crewmax-5tfdy5f13mx991845/?gaw_campaign_id=850336788&gaw_ad_group_id=48012637670&gaw_remote_client_id=2833431864&gclid=CjwKCAjwuIWHBhBDEiwACXQYsXLoK3Hd5JWVqCwHojw1qVOtGHiLXBdxSNARWi8HEhI57DQYhhaEHRoC1iAQAvD_BwE

[cookiedough]

https://www.bosakauto.com/inventory/certified-used-2021-toyota-tundra-sr5-4wd-4d-crewmax-5tfdy5f13mx991845/?gaw_campaign_id=850336788&gaw_ad_group_id=48012637670&gaw_remote_client_id=2833431864&gclid=CjwKCAjwuIWHBhBDEiwACXQYsXLoK3Hd5JWVqCwHojw1qVOtGHiLXBdxSNARWi8HEhI57DQYhhaEHRoC1iAQAvD_BwE

yah,  that USED 2021 tundra crewmax SR5 trim asking near 50K was NEW msrp around 45K is all.  Anyone who pays 5K over msrp for a used one must really need that truck...    
Asking price though is rarely what the dealer will get for it.

[Patrick]

GM engines ? JMHO, but, I'd recommend the 5.3 if you really don't need a bigger engine.

[cookiedough]

GM engines ? JMHO, but, I'd recommend the 5.3 if you really don't need a bigger engine.

why would you recommend the GM 5.3L engine over say the 6.2L GM engine besides cost more to get?  The 6.2L is more powerful and actually gets better mpg than the 5.3L engine.

[Patrick]

GM engines ? JMHO, but, I'd recommend the 5.3 if you really don't need a bigger engine.

why would you recommend the GM 5.3L engine over say the 6.2L GM engine besides cost more to get?  The 6.2L is more powerful and actually gets better mpg than the 5.3L engine.

Really ?!  Well, if you like that engine then thats the engine to get.

[cookiedough]

I am waiting for Carvana to come pick up my 2018 F150.
I leased it when it was new for less than $300 a month and I put 28,400 miles on it. My lease buy out was $24,000 (plus tax) and Carvana is giving me $35,450.

That offer is only a few thousand less than the sticker price was when new, and it sure beats just handing the keys over to the dealer.

Jim

well toyota stealership was a waste of time on Monday.   kbb.com is 32 to 34K  appraiser guy at stealer only said 31.5K so said NO thanks and luckily only wasted 30 minutes there.  I went onto CARVANA as suggested and typed my vin# and mileage, etc. and must be a misprint?  ONLY 24.5K trade in while carmax online was same 31.5K trade in as stealer.    So, for 31K range will keep what I have since NOT paying full msrp (or 3K above full msrp) which is 2 grand above dealer invoice but not like any out there to buy anyways.

One would think that if full retail goes up on new the trade in value would go up accordingly?  I guess they think I am a sucker or do not care since no tundras to buy new anyways.   Looking at used one similar asking 35 to 36K so probably best just to sell myself...

[cookiedough]

well I am done looking found just tonight 2 milwaukee wi area dealers who have much to my shock since limited supply 2021 tundra in gray I want identical equipped with what I want.  BOTH stealers are NOW charging 4900 bucks over full msrp.  NO way is any truck worth over full msrp is not a limited edition one of a kind corvette, etc.  gee whiz!

anyone who pays over full msrp is not thinking right since I would not pay 1 dime over full msrp for any vehicle ever.  Those who do are either rich or that vehicle to them is a MUST HAVE.

[Patrick]

Don't think you're paying over sticker ?  Depends on how you're buying the new monster.

Regardless of how well one thinks they've made out, the dealer is smiling all the way to the bank and then for some time afterwards.

[cookiedough]

Don't think you're paying over sticker ?  Depends on how you're buying the new monster.

Regardless of how well one thinks they've made out, the dealer is smiling all the way to the bank and then for some time afterwards.

agree if the buyer is gullable enough to give in to their 7K profit on new truck and if they had their way like on mine,  7K profit on my used truck being traded in.  1 of the 2 stealers would NOT let it go last night when told them NOT paying 4900 over full msrp ONLY full msrp I will pay.  Sales mgr. called me this morning wasting 15 minutes of my time and said very limited supply and they get eventually the 4900 dealer markup even after I told them last night NO not interested.  They then said ball park figure 4K less than kbb.com or nadaguide.com on my used truck trade in.  I said how did you come up with only that 4K less when kbb, etc. is 4K more?  He would not answer on reasoning why so low when in fact they will sell it for probably 2K less than what I paid for the truck 4 years ago since NO used ones around either.  I told them I need 4K more on trade in and pay only full msrp which is reasonable them making 2K profit on new truck and about 3k profit on used truck when they sell it.   If 5K profit total vs. 14K on one new sale/used trade in is not enough, then their problem.  OH yah,  after BSing with the sales mgr. over phone,  he asked what I thought of the 2500 dollar paint/interior fabric protection good for 7 years they put on all new vehicles.  I said is worth to me 1 penny since is a ripoff do not need is pure profit for any dealership who does those gimmicks.  I think they got the hint I am not their huckleberry and that ignorant.

[Patrick]

I was born and brought up in the new car business.  No one is in business to lose money.

But, yep, someone will buy that vehicle. Dealers right now are arrogant as heck, don't seem to care, they know the vehicles will sell. Most are sold before the dealers get them.

But, dealers are hurting right now. There is nothing to sell.

I'm always still snooping around looking. I've been looking at Pacifica's and Odyessy's lately. It'll probably be a year before I buy. And I love brutalizing salesmen.

[carolinarider09]

I was born and brought up in the new car business.  No one is in business to lose money.

But, yep, someone will buy that vehicle. Dealers right now are arrogant as heck, don't seem to care, they know the vehicles will sell. Most are sold before the dealers get them.

But, dealers are hurting right now. There is nothing to sell.

I'm always still snooping around looking. I've been looking at Pacifica's and Odyessy's lately. It'll probably be a year before I buy. And I love brutalizing salesmen.

If you don't mind, I might have to ask your advice when I purchase my next new car/truck.  Right now my wife is suggesting I get a Ford Maverick Pikcup.   But probably not next year given the supply/price stuff. 

[Patrick]

I was born and brought up in the new car business.  No one is in business to lose money.

But, yep, someone will buy that vehicle. Dealers right now are arrogant as heck, don't seem to care, they know the vehicles will sell. Most are sold before the dealers get them.

But, dealers are hurting right now. There is nothing to sell.

I'm always still snooping around looking. I've been looking at Pacifica's and Odyessy's lately. It'll probably be a year before I buy. And I love brutalizing salesmen.

If you don't mind, I might have to ask your advice when I purchase my next new car/truck.  Right now my wife is suggesting I get a Ford Maverick Pikcup.   But probably not next year given the supply/price stuff.  

Yep, plus that truck is new/first year.  Let someone else have the problems, if there are any, ironed out. Ford has always been pretty good at fixing early model issues. But its still a PITA having the truck down for repairs. I haven't heard anything about that truck yet, so I don't know anything about it yet.

From what I understand it only comes with a 4 cylinder eco-boost engine and CVT transmission.
That engine has had exhaust manifold issues and I don't know if Ford has fixed that yet. Plus I'm not a fan of CVTs, but, the new electronic versions seem to be reliable.

[Robert]

I wonder if gas prices will do anything to the market?

[Rams]

Don't think you're paying over sticker ?  Depends on how you're buying the new monster.

Regardless of how well one thinks they've made out, the dealer is smiling all the way to the bank and then for some time afterwards.

Agreed.   Although, in my own shopping and buying practices, I'm a very patient buyer.   My last three Dodge/Ram truck each took over three months to bargain on before we finally reached a deal on a vehicle  acceptable to me.   When I'm interested in something new, I take my time looking and dealing.  While I understand the vehicle I'm wanting may get sold to another, that's alright.   There's usually another vehicle at the next dealer.    My current Ram took almost four months to buy.   Fortunately for me, someone else had special ordered it and their deal fell through.   Don't know why, don't care.   This new truck sat on the dealer's lot for almost two years because, it is not the typical truck most buyer's want today.   But, it was almost exactly the truck I wanted.    The salesman I was dealing with kept telling I needed to get it or someone else would.   I kept telling them that although that may happen, that truck was still on their lot because it was not what most of the buying public wanted.

The vast majority of truck and SUV buyer's think they have to have 4WD and super cabs.   I don't.   I wanted a Cummins Diesel, 2WD regular cab, one ton truck.   I know my needs and I don't need 4WD or a super cab.   Both of those options cause the vehicle to use more fuel and increase maintenance costs.   Regardless, I eventually got the truck at an acceptable price.   In this case, the dealer probably did smile getting my money to the bank but, I'm thinking it was because they were glad to get it off their books and not having to make any more interest payments on it.    The dealer also helped arrange for a very low interest loan on this truck with an additional discount if I used their lender and didn't pay off the loan for a year.   I took advantage of that option but, still paid off the loan at 13 months.  

The whole point is, it's your money and it's your choice on how to spend it, get what you want but, be patient and make the "system" work to your advantage as much as possible.    

[Patrick]

Don't think you're paying over sticker ?  Depends on how you're buying the new monster.

Regardless of how well one thinks they've made out, the dealer is smiling all the way to the bank and then for some time afterwards.

Agreed.   Although, in my own shopping and buying practices, I'm a very patient buyer.   My last three Dodge/Ram truck each took over three months to bargain on before we finally reached a deal on a vehicle  acceptable to me.   When I'm interested in something new, I take my time looking and dealing.  While I understand the vehicle I'm wanting may get sold to another, that's alright.   There's usually another vehicle at the next dealer.    My current Ram took almost four months to buy.   Fortunately for me, someone else had special ordered it and their deal fell through.   Don't know why, don't care.   This new truck sat on the dealer's lot for almost two years because, it is not the typical truck most buyer's want today.   But, it was almost exactly the truck I wanted.    The salesman I was dealing with kept telling I needed to get it or someone else would.   I kept telling them that although that may happen, that truck was still on their lot because it was not what most of the buying public wanted.

The vast majority of truck and SUV buyer's think they have to have 4WD and super cabs.   I don't.   I wanted a Cummins Diesel, 2WD regular cab, one ton truck.   I know my needs and I don't need 4WD or a super cab.   Both of those options cause the vehicle to use more fuel and increase maintenance costs.   Regardless, I eventually got the truck at an acceptable price.   In this case, the dealer probably did smile getting my money to the bank but, I'm thinking it was because they were glad to get it off their books and not having to make any more interest payments on it.    The dealer also helped arrange for a very low interest loan on this truck with an additional discount if I used their lender and didn't pay off the loan for a year.   I took advantage of that option but, still paid off the loan at 13 months.  

The whole point is, it's your money and it's your choice on how to spend it, get what you want but, be patient and make the "system" work to your advantage as much as possible.    

 

There ya go !  Get what you want and brutalize them until you do.

I drove 4WD before most did but now don't need or want them. Its very hard to find/get 2WD unless you order them. Thats the only reason I now have a 4WD because it was a lot vehicle and I bought it within 2 hours. I was able to convince the dealer that it was something I didn't want but he needed to sell it to me. It was in stock less than a month and a desirable vehicle that would have sold quickly.
I bought it for what I was willingly to pay and they certainly made money, they have too. It added to their numbers which is a big thing. I didn't want the 4WD or the axle ratio, but, it had everything else. Its been a good truck.

When I usually buy a truck I want 2WD with a limited slip axle. Plus that few inches of lower stance makes a difference. I do like the longer cabs and now prefer the full size rear seats. And I like caps rather than a bed cover. Everyone has their opinions on such things.

[Rams]

Don't think you're paying over sticker ?  Depends on how you're buying the new monster.

Regardless of how well one thinks they've made out, the dealer is smiling all the way to the bank and then for some time afterwards.

Agreed.   Although, in my own shopping and buying practices, I'm a very patient buyer.   My last three Dodge/Ram truck each took over three months to bargain on before we finally reached a deal on a vehicle  acceptable to me.   When I'm interested in something new, I take my time looking and dealing.  While I understand the vehicle I'm wanting may get sold to another, that's alright.   There's usually another vehicle at the next dealer.    My current Ram took almost four months to buy.   Fortunately for me, someone else had special ordered it and their deal fell through.   Don't know why, don't care.   This new truck sat on the dealer's lot for almost two years because, it is not the typical truck most buyer's want today.   But, it was almost exactly the truck I wanted.    The salesman I was dealing with kept telling I needed to get it or someone else would.   I kept telling them that although that may happen, that truck was still on their lot because it was not what most of the buying public wanted.

The vast majority of truck and SUV buyer's think they have to have 4WD and super cabs.   I don't.   I wanted a Cummins Diesel, 2WD regular cab, one ton truck.   I know my needs and I don't need 4WD or a super cab.   Both of those options cause the vehicle to use more fuel and increase maintenance costs.   Regardless, I eventually got the truck at an acceptable price.   In this case, the dealer probably did smile getting my money to the bank but, I'm thinking it was because they were glad to get it off their books and not having to make any more interest payments on it.    The dealer also helped arrange for a very low interest loan on this truck with an additional discount if I used their lender and didn't pay off the loan for a year.   I took advantage of that option but, still paid off the loan at 13 months.  

The whole point is, it's your money and it's your choice on how to spend it, get what you want but, be patient and make the "system" work to your advantage as much as possible.    

 

There ya go !  Get what you want and brutalize them until you do.

I drove 4WD before most did but now don't need or want them. Its very hard to find/get 2WD unless you order them. Thats the only reason I now have a 4WD because it was a lot vehicle and I bought it within 2 hours. I was able to convince the dealer that it was something I didn't want but he needed to sell it to me. It was in stock less than a month and a desirable vehicle that would have sold quickly.
I bought it for what I was willingly to pay and they certainly made money, they have too. It added to their numbers which is a big thing. I didn't want the 4WD or the axle ratio, but, it had everything else. Its been a good truck.

When I usually buy a truck I want 2WD with a limited slip axle. Plus that few inches of lower stance makes a difference. I do like the longer cabs and now prefer the full size rear seats. And I like caps rather than a bed cover. Everyone has their opinions on such things.

Based on my own personal experience, finding a 2WD on any new vehicle lot is a rarity.    We've (most of us) bought into the advertising and fad that 4WD is something we all need.   Which is complete BS.   The vast majority of folks I know never use their vehicles in an environment where 4WD is necessary. They all use more fuel and have higher maintenance costs due to that.  And, I'm not talking about just in Mississippi.   Some folks do need 4WD for their activities, some folks are just convinced they need it but, it's more about anxiety of the "Might" need it than the reality that they really do.    

But, to each their own.   It's your money and if you (anyone) can afford it, buy it and drive it.  

Rams

[cookiedough]

yah,  for those who live in southern states no need 'usually' for 4wd unless in muddy areas off road more so.  In WI,  95% of trucks sold are 4wd as rightfully so in WI winters.   Although 95% of my driving even in WI winters do not need 4wd,  those 10-20 days per year needing 4wd is almost a must for 2WD trucks do NOT move very well on snow even if new tires.

[Rams]

yah,  for those who live in southern states no need 'usually' for 4wd unless in muddy areas off road more so.  In WI,  95% of trucks sold are 4wd as rightfully so in WI winters.   Although 95% of my driving even in WI winters do not need 4wd,  those 10-20 days per year needing 4wd is almost a must for 2WD trucks do NOT move very well on snow even if new tires.

As I said, some folks do need 4WD, some folks have been convinced they need it.
Not my call on who really does but, as I said, 4WD is way oversold.

Rams

[cookiedough]

also heard just today the factory in Mexico making the all new ford bronco and ford maverick small truck have shut down production a month or more due to chip shortages running out of them so production is halted until further notice.  It will affect all of 2022 into 2023 so be prepared to PAY UP for any NEW vehicle for the next year or more.  

I still would NEVER pay 1 penny over full factory msrp sticker price on ANY new vehicle even though the Toyota dealer I talked to said they get that 4900 over full msrp dealer markup on the 2021 new tundras.  I said good for you but I will not.  You have to figure in 2023 sometime when the chip shortages go away and hopefully this pandemic declines that new tundra overpaying 4900 bucks new will be totally wasted money once inventory levels hopefully in 2023 go back to somewhat normal levels.  

The fact that gas prices are going up and up over 3 bucks per gallon now in most places might derail large truck and SUV sales though in 2022 thus lessening some stealers overcharging 4-5K on new hard to find vehicles like the tundra?  I know when gas prices soared a few years ago to near 4 bucks per gallon,  dealers in my area could NOT sell a 17 mpg truck or SUV hardly at all and inventory levels were at an all time high.

[cookiedough]

yah,  for those who live in southern states no need 'usually' for 4wd unless in muddy areas off road more so.  In WI,  95% of trucks sold are 4wd as rightfully so in WI winters.   Although 95% of my driving even in WI winters do not need 4wd,  those 10-20 days per year needing 4wd is almost a must for 2WD trucks do NOT move very well on snow even if new tires.

As I said, some folks do need 4WD, some folks have been convinced they need it.
Not my call on who really does but, as I said, 4WD is way oversold.

Rams

I agree on 4wd oversold for sure, but more so AWD vehicles like most small SUV's are oversold even more so here in WI at least.  Here is my opinion:  All these SUV's are FWD and in my driving experience,  99 percent of the road driving even in WI winters is fine with just a FWD vehicle maybe at most 'needing essential' AWD in 1-2 days tops per year, if that even.  The traction on FWD is very good as compared to a RWD truck on snow spinning tires horribly not moving even if have rear locking differential and good tires.  AWD on average raises the price 1500 bucks and lowers mpg between 1.5 and 2 less mpg as well and also more issues down the road possible.    Finding now vs. say 7 years ago just a FWD SUV is hard to do,  most on lots are AWD.     Does AWD help, yes for sure, but FWD will more speed or less speed driving will do the job in 99 percent of winter driving conditions.

Our 290hp V6 santa fe FWD being larger, more powerful, gets same 26-27 avg hwy mpg as our newer 4 cylinder 182 hp smaller tucson AWD that the wife wanted we argued on that for a long time her wanting AWD vs. just FWD which was harder to find for sure.  The 2 less mpg sorta sucks since 99 percent of our driving FWD works just fine no need for AWD.

on top of that,  my driving experience,  I bought in 1990's a new 2wd chevy silverado 350 V8 being my first new truck ever bought.  I had to order out getting 2wd and loved it having tons more acceleration and 3 more hwy mpg getting 20. (except 5-10 days in the winter spinning tires going nowhere even with 600lbs. in bed of truck).  I decided a few years later to get a new 4wd 350 V8 chevy silverado and immediately noticed same 3.73 rear axle ratio it was more sluggish and slower acceleration even just using 2wd plus at most 17 hwy mpg..   If I lived in southern states no snow,  2wd would be fine loosing all that extra weight that 4wd has, getting 2-3 more mpg FWD, and faster acceleration/more power in 2wd vehicle, plus less headaches that 4wd can bring later on.

[cookiedough]

I was born and brought up in the new car business.  No one is in business to lose money.

But, yep, someone will buy that vehicle. Dealers right now are arrogant as heck, don't seem to care, they know the vehicles will sell. Most are sold before the dealers get them.

But, dealers are hurting right now. There is nothing to sell.

I'm always still snooping around looking. I've been looking at Pacifica's and Odyessy's lately. It'll probably be a year before I buy. And I love brutalizing salesmen.

If you don't mind, I might have to ask your advice when I purchase my next new car/truck.  Right now my wife is suggesting I get a Ford Maverick Pikcup.   But probably not next year given the supply/price stuff. 

especially now not worth considering since all new ford bronco and ford maverick Mexico plant shut down for over 1 month due to chip shortage unable to build them both.  That 20K base model ford maverick everyone is bragging about due to cheapest price on any new truck will soon also have a dealer markup of 3-5K above full msrp due to NONE on dealer lots to buy.

I understand dealers are hurting having 5 or more salesman standing around doing nothing since NO vehicles on lot to sell, but to price gouge above full msrp is totally wrong IMO.  Throw out that law of supply and demand entirely.  There is on average a 1500-2K markup (or more) between dealer invoice pricing and full msrp and if that is not enough profit,  then too bad.   My hicktown very small dealer has 2 salesman (had 1 for years) and their lot few years ago had 50-80 new vehicles to sell 4-5 rows of them.  The past 1 year their inventory level selling buick and chevrolet is pathetic having 11 total vehicles on their lot with 6-7 new and about 5 used is all.  2 right now are new chevy z71 silverados surprised they have 2 new to sell actually..

[Patrick]

Even in the snow belt region of NYS I find little use for 4WD. As said, 2WD with the right rear axle the vehicle will go 99% of the places a 4WD will go. And even at that it usually depends on who is driving.

As a kid I plowed snow for years with the old Studebaker 2WD truck with chains. Don't remember ever getting stuck. That thing would wallow its way thru anything.
When we switched to a Bronco [ first year] I wanted the Stude back.  I had to tie a rope to the door handles. Every time I bucked a snow bank the doors flew open, grabbed the ropes to pull them shut. But it did get into tighter places.