new vehicle purchase 3K above full msrp

[Rams]

I agree on 4wd oversold for sure, but more so AWD vehicles like most small SUV's are oversold even more so here in WI at least. 

To clarify, I consider 4WD and AWD in the same category as mostly a wasted expense although, I do realize there is a mechanical difference.   They still cost more initially and cost more to maintain and operate.   If someone needs either for the 1 or 2% of their time spent driving, they be wasting their money IMHO.   There are people who can justify 4WD/AWD but, honestly they are far and few between.   The exception are those who "think" they need it.

Rams

[Moonshot_1]

I agree on 4wd oversold for sure, but more so AWD vehicles like most small SUV's are oversold even more so here in WI at least. 

To clarify, I consider 4WD and AWD in the same category as mostly a wasted expense although, I do realize there is a mechanical difference.   They still cost more initially and cost more to maintain and operate.   If someone needs either for the 1 or 2% of their time spent driving, they be wasting their money IMHO.   There are people who can justify 4WD/AWD but, honestly they are far and few between.   The exception are those who "think" they need it.

Rams

Kind of reminds me of the quote about carrying a gun.

No one needs to carry a handgun on their person until you really need to have one.

[cookiedough]

Even in the snow belt region of NYS I find little use for 4WD. As said, 2WD with the right rear axle the vehicle will go 99% of the places a 4WD will go. And even at that it usually depends on who is driving.

As a kid I plowed snow for years with the old Studebaker 2WD truck with chains. Don't remember ever getting stuck. That thing would wallow its way thru anything.
When we switched to a Bronco [ first year] I wanted the Stude back.  I had to tie a rope to the door handles. Every time I bucked a snow bank the doors flew open, grabbed the ropes to pull them shut. But it did get into tighter places.

depends really,  a RWD truck in snow sucks off the line even with good tires does not take off very well spinning rear tires a lot which is very frustrating if want to get going.  If FWD truck, then enough weight in front to get moving somewhat decent.  IMO FWD is fine but RWD is not in winter snowbelt states even if you put 1000lbs. in the bed of a RWD truck still sucks.

[Rams]

I agree on 4wd oversold for sure, but more so AWD vehicles like most small SUV's are oversold even more so here in WI at least. 

To clarify, I consider 4WD and AWD in the same category as mostly a wasted expense although, I do realize there is a mechanical difference.   They still cost more initially and cost more to maintain and operate.   If someone needs either for the 1 or 2% of their time spent driving, they be wasting their money IMHO.   There are people who can justify 4WD/AWD but, honestly they are far and few between.   The exception are those who "think" they need it.

Rams

Kind of reminds me of the quote about carrying a gun.

No one needs to carry a handgun on their person until you really need to have one.

And that reminds me of my younger days when there were times I wished I had a condom.   
Go prepared or don't go. 

Rams

[Patrick]

Even in the snow belt region of NYS I find little use for 4WD. As said, 2WD with the right rear axle the vehicle will go 99% of the places a 4WD will go. And even at that it usually depends on who is driving.

As a kid I plowed snow for years with the old Studebaker 2WD truck with chains. Don't remember ever getting stuck. That thing would wallow its way thru anything.
When we switched to a Bronco [ first year] I wanted the Stude back.  I had to tie a rope to the door handles. Every time I bucked a snow bank the doors flew open, grabbed the ropes to pull them shut. But it did get into tighter places.

depends really,  a RWD truck in snow sucks off the line even with good tires does not take off very well spinning rear tires a lot which is very frustrating if want to get going.  If FWD truck, then enough weight in front to get moving somewhat decent.  IMO FWD is fine but RWD is not in winter snowbelt states even if you put 1000lbs. in the bed of a RWD truck still sucks.

Nope.

[Rams]

Even in the snow belt region of NYS I find little use for 4WD. As said, 2WD with the right rear axle the vehicle will go 99% of the places a 4WD will go. And even at that it usually depends on who is driving.

As a kid I plowed snow for years with the old Studebaker 2WD truck with chains. Don't remember ever getting stuck. That thing would wallow its way thru anything.
When we switched to a Bronco [ first year] I wanted the Stude back.  I had to tie a rope to the door handles. Every time I bucked a snow bank the doors flew open, grabbed the ropes to pull them shut. But it did get into tighter places.

depends really,  a RWD truck in snow sucks off the line even with good tires does not take off very well spinning rear tires a lot which is very frustrating if want to get going.  If FWD truck, then enough weight in front to get moving somewhat decent.  IMO FWD is fine but RWD is not in winter snowbelt states even if you put 1000lbs. in the bed of a RWD truck still sucks.

Nope.

  

[cookiedough]

2nd stealer I said NO to Friday night called me back late today saying they will waive the 4900 markup above full msrp and give me my trade in price asking for which is reasonable but cannot undo the 1989 bogus paint/interior protection pkg. already put on the truck.   Wanna bet dealer cost on that bogus pkg is 600 bucks their cost?  Salesman even admitted to me over phone they put that paint protection on ALL vehicles on their lots now to make up for the lack of sales having very low inventory levels.

Still told them NO tonight waste of 2K to me protection pkg. is of no value at all to me.  U really think if I let bird poop or tree sap sit on the hood of the truck baked in the sun for years not washing it off and I got that paint protection pkg. good for 7 years, the stealer would actually repaint that hood for free if it showed permanent signs of paint damage not coming 100% clean?  I bet not.

They think they are saving me 4900 bucks no dealer markup over full msrp paid but texted him back stating they are already making 2K profit paying full msrp over dealer invoice pricing which I am o.k. with plus 3K profit when they sell my used tundra in a few weeks or so and if 5K pure profit on an easy sale is not good enough I will keep what I have now.  At least this dealer wanted ONLY 7K pure profit the other stealer same exact truck msrp wanted 14K pure profit which was a total joke.

I have found by calling around past few months trying to find my ideal truck since NO dealers will dealer trade anymore for what I want that the larger cities are highly upcharging over full msrp and like to add bogus paint/fabric protection that is like 2 grand vs. the mom/pop rural dealers where I live in towns 10000 or less do not do either.  Problem is all the smaller locals dealers by me selling Toyota's have NO tundras to sell ever past few months since they dinky.

[Patrick]

Yep, the paint/seat protection stuff is a scam and should not be put on until the vehicle is sold and the buyer agrees to it. Doesn't anyone wax their vehicle anymore, well, I suppose not, dumb question, huh.
Why not wait a year and see if this WuFlu stuff dies down and we maybe start to get back to normal.

[cookiedough]

Yep, the paint/seat protection stuff is a scam and should not be put on until the vehicle is sold and the buyer agrees to it. Doesn't anyone wax their vehicle anymore, well, I suppose not, dumb question, huh.
Why not wait a year and see if this WuFlu stuff dies down and we maybe start to get back to normal.

Agree,  the dealers are putting these protection BS stuff on vehicles on lot BEFORE selling to make pure profit for them since they think they can get away with it since VERY low inventory thinking customers will say hey, gotta buy it since none around.   Agree, if you wax your vehicle at least 1-2x's per year the tree sap or bird poo will or should come off the paint.

If I want a new 2021 tundra V8 gotta buy now before all gone since the completely new 2022 tundra will be out in December made to copy cat the ford f150 3.5L ecoboost copied twin turbo, copied 10 speed tranny, copied even the exact same 3.31 rear axle ratio.    Used tundras if I wait 1-2 years to buy a 2021 dealers are asking near full purchase price as a new 2021 tundra now so does not make sense to wait unfortunately.   

[f6john]

Prices were bad enough before all this supply chain bs. I count my lucky stars that I’m not in the situation of having to replace any vehicles right now. 5 years on a fixed income and spending all disposable income on the house puts any vehicle purchases down the road.

[Patrick]

Thats a good point. Everyone pretty much knows I wouldn't consider any Toyota product so I don't pay attention to them.

I guess this year is the last for a V8. Next year is the turbo V6 along with some other first year changes. I don't recommend buying any first year stuff.

If Toyota is trying to copy Ford, there is probably a reason for it. So look at buying a Ford, its a better truck anyway. Ford is probably having the same supply issues as everyone else and trying to play the same games.

I wasn't a fan of the Eco-boost Fords, but, they've been out for awhile now and any problems seem to have been corrected. But I'd still want a V8 if I was interested.

[f6john]

I haven’t kept up with it lately but at one time this summer Ford had 60,000 trucks sitting in a field waiting on chips. If memory serves me correctly they were at the race track in Sparta Kentucky. They were from the Louisville truck assembly plant.

[Patrick]

I haven’t kept up with it lately but at one time this summer Ford had 60,000 trucks sitting in a field waiting on chips. If memory serves me correctly they were at the race track in Sparta Kentucky. They were from the Louisville truck assembly plant.

Yep, this is what we have come to. Relying on another country for somethings simple as a chip. Dealers were getting some vehicles and then had to remove and return the chips. How crazy is that.

[cookiedough]

Thats a good point. Everyone pretty much knows I wouldn't consider any Toyota product so I don't pay attention to them.

I guess this year is the last for a V8. Next year is the turbo V6 along with some other first year changes. I don't recommend buying any first year stuff.

If Toyota is trying to copy Ford, there is probably a reason for it. So look at buying a Ford, its a better truck anyway. Ford is probably having the same supply issues as everyone else and trying to play the same games.

I wasn't a fan of the Eco-boost Fords, but, they've been out for awhile now and any problems seem to have been corrected. But I'd still want a V8 if I was interested.

well at least we agree on wanting a V8...  

reason I think why toyota copying the ford ecoboost EXACTLY is to try steering ford f150 owners to the tundra since will be cheaper to buy and better resale more thank likely, trying to get f150 owners to jump to a tundra.  Plus,  fuel economy numbers as well V8 gets 17 hwy. vs. heard the 3.5L ecoboost will get 22 hwy mpg as well as on all new everything 2022 tundra.  All other truck mfgs. get at least 20 on the hwy. and EPA needs better than 17 mpg.  I do like the 38 gallon fuel tank on my tundra able to go well over 550 miles per tank, but sucks putting 100 bucks in it per fillup if near empty.

tundra also redoing entire frame copying ford as well fully boxed now and upped 12K towing vs. had 10K towing to get near where ford and gm trucks are at.  One would never tow IMO over 10K lbs. anyways in any 1/2 ton truck more like 8500lbs. tops IMO.    Also composite bed like tacoma now and NO leaf springs is going coils in back like the dodge ram to have a much better ride quality.

[cookiedough]

Opinion:  new tundra will be all black even comes now with a rear black bumper but the front grille and front bumper is still chrome, sorta odd.

Question:  since all black mostly,  would you consider going blacked out entirely sides and rear by spending total only 300 bucks extra getting blacked out snap on plastic overlays over 5 chrome badges on sides and rear tailgate of truck as well as black plastic snap on wheel skins that snap on over the alloy shiny rims to get that ALL BLACKED out look at least from the sides and rear?    all black is growing on me but not willing to cough up big bucks to get a black front bumper and black plastic grille for a few grand vs. being chrome now.  300 bucks is in my budget for doing this and think it would look better vs chrome badging and alloy rims?  Not sure if blacked out snap on plastic wheel skins would look cheap though am guessing from a distance would look sharp but up close would look cheap?  thoughts?  Not willing to spend over 1 grand, even 800 or so used, to get the sharp looking ALL BLACK TRD rims though.

sort of like a mullet:  classy business good looking (chrome) up front and party (more rugged)  in the back (and sides) being black.        

[..]

Black shows the dirt and gets hot in the summer.

[cookiedough]

Black shows the dirt and gets hot in the summer.

yep know that have a black valk I/S and wash it then 2 weeks later looks dirty again even if just sitting there dust collector...

Just trying to spruce up the ho-hum black by blackening all 5 chrome badges with black snap on overalay as well as alloy wheels snapping on black plastic wheelskins over them.

I read up on PLASTIDIP as well spray on cans and heard does a good job lasting 3-4 years.  Even could do the chrome front bumper and chrome grille surround that would be easy to masking tape the front up without making a mess. 

[cookiedough]

bit the bullet yesterday and dealer sold me the 2021 black tundra SR5.   Had appt. at 10 a.m. but sales guy busy with others so sat there 40 minutes doing NOTHING.  I wanted to see the truck and drive it  in those 40 minutes wasted, but then the part time young college student F&I lady came over and asked if ready to sign the paperwork.  I said not until I test drive and look over the 43.5K new truck.  VERY disorganized and after looking at the truck and driving it, the detail prep work sucked all they did was remove white plastic film over the hood and do a quick wash and rub down leaving fine swirl/scratches in the black paint.  After telling sales guy to detail it better in a few spots took truck away sat there another 45 minutes.  ARGHH.  came back not to my liking but after review I can take a coat of wax and get off 90% of the swirl/fine scratches in the black paint myself.

I swear sales guy did NOTHING nor the detail shop in that 40 minutes.   I also told sales guy Friday to program the auto door locks to leave UNLOCK shifting into park and he never even did that.   I guess spending 43K does not get you much nowadays in terms of service/sales?  I was not giving it up though since they also messed up NOT charging me after telling them I will think about it but do NOT install just get a quote on black overlay emblems 3M tape and black plastic rim covers.  Guess what,  was ON the tundra going out and looking at it already but never said a word and F&I paperwork never said anything about the 350 dollar quote so took it and ran with it not paying it.  If they wanted to charge I would NOT have taken the truck since have a text telling sales guy do NOT put on the truck just get a quote for now and can add it on later.   Makes me wonder how the sales guy could have overlooked those 2 add on items since we talked about it the day prior but he was a backup sales guy not my main sales guy since he was going on vacation this Friday and Saturday and not there to take delivery.  OH well,  dealer dropped the ball as usual IMO.  Not like I will go back to them for any service work since 2 hour drive away for not even free oil changes and tire rotation the first 25K miles every 5000 miles. 

Other 3 dealers who had my 'gray' new tundra I wanted also 2 hours away all asked 2-5K above full msrp and NOT doing that EVER.  NO vehicle is worth over full msrp pricing IMO since there is over a 2K markup between dealer invoice and full msrp and that 2K+ is pure profit for stealership, plus dealer holdback money on it.  I guess that holdback goes towards full tank of gas and with a 38 gallon fuel tank and 3.25 gallon was over 100 bucks to fill up new tundra vs. me leaving them my old tundra with ONLY 5 gallons of gas in the tank LOW fuel light was on....

If they come back with the parts and service dept. sending me a bill for 350, oh well, not paying it never told them to add both on in the first place.  I will take that 350 for compensation for having to detail the truck myself.  There 9:45 a.m. outta there at noon vs. should have taken 1 hour tops.  A good thing is the young F&I lady only took 10 minutes to do the paperwork since as soon as she started to talk about extended warranty or paint protection I said NO in a very firm voice just wanna sign the paperwork and be done.


I like the looks of all blacked out but as said,  black shows ALL the swirl marks and scratches and dirt ASAP and never looks clean after a few weeks of cleaning it.   My gray tundra I traded in am sure was dirty but NOT ONE swirl or scratch (except one small one on tailgate) could see on the entire truck due to the charcoal gray covers up any swirls/scratches very well but black is the worst color to looking clean and good.

will be interesting next week to see how much they advertise my tundra for sale.  I bet with truck shortage, etc. they list it for ONLY 1K less than I paid for it 4.5 years ago and still sell for 3-4K tops above my trade in price.   I tried selling it for 2500 above trade in value on facebook marketplace but to my surprise NO calls/nothing  past 1 month or so being the cheapest tundra on there except for one in Iowa similar mileage/same year etc.    2K had to be over trade in since trade in savings on sales tax new tundra was pushing 2K  so 500 profit is about it selling outright.