.223 or 7.63 x 39????

[BamaDrifter64]

I'm looking at buying several semi-automatics just in case the crap ever hits the fan and I want them to be the same caliber...so given that, which would you get, considering price and availability....would you get .223 or 7.62 x 39 caliber?

Dave

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Kinda hard to answer that one. 7.62 by 39 ammo used to be much less expensive than 223 but I’m not sure if that's still true. You can find more inexpensive semi-autos in 7.62 by 39 than you can in .223, at least as far as my knowledge goes.

However the AR family has better accuracy potential then do the mini-30’s and AK’s that I’ve shot. Also you can change a shot out barrel on an AR yourself. With the right ammo 7.62 by 39 is powerful enough to humanely take deer and wild hogs. .223 is marginal at best unless you’re a crack shot. It’s not a legal deer caliber in most states either to my knowledge. Of course that may not figure into your equation.

If I was buying an AR I’d look hard at one of the new gas-piston types. They are getting good reviews in the shooting press.

[Serk]

My standard response is "Both", but I understand not everyone has the means to fully flesh out both options...

7.62x39 would be the better cartridge for putting food on the table in a survival scenario IMHO (similar enough to the 30-30, which has prolly harvested more deer than any other single caliber in the US ever).

I used to be a big believer in the stopping power in a man sized target of the 7.62x39 over the .223, until I did some more research and saw some ballistic gelatin comparisons... A properly loaded .223 (Or more technically in this case 5.56) can REALLY rip up flesh...

Another concern, not trying to go down the political path, but depending on which kind of poop hitting the fan scenario you're preparing for, blue helmeted troops would most likely be carrying 5.56 (.223) weapons and ammo, not 7.62x39... Even if the threat were from another source, even the Russians have dropped 7.62x39 as their main caliber (In favor of the 5.45x39).

IMHO, if you can afford multiple .223 rifles and ammo, you can also afford at the very least a $200 Yugoslavian SKS in 7.62x39 and a case or two of ammo to cover both bases... But if for some reason I _HAD_ to choose only one, it'd probably be the 5.56 (.223)

[Jess from VA]

.223 and most firearms that shoot it are superior to 7.62 X 39 and its firearms, esp if you may fight beyond 200 meters.  However, .223 firearms are some three or four times more expensive than the other, and ammo is more too (bulk ammo-wise, you can get Russian 7.62 X 39 Wolf for 30 odd cents a round, and (non-Rrussian) .223 for 50 cents a round, but good stuff is closer to 70 cents).  An AR15 or M4 variant is probably your best single 20-30 rd magazine semiauto rifle for serious defense.  See the Sig 556.  

But you could also get an SKS (7.62 X 39) 10-rd stripper clip fed semiauto for a couple hundred dollars and shoot cheap Russian Wolf ammo in it and have a very good back up.  And there are aftermarket stocks and 20-30rd magazine conversions (Tapco) that can be had for 150 bucks.  An AK variant is also a good choice but the price jumps up (still cheaper than ARs).  A Ruger mini thirty is not a bad choice either, but the prices have gone up too much for the quality of the rifle to justify.

My SKS is a very nice collector and very reliable as it is, and I will not alter it other than making sure all parts are good, and adding a set of rear battle sights.  It is a nice backup to an AR15 and an M1A (.308 - M14)

I guess I'm saying I'd get a .223 for my primary, but no need to spend big for two of them for the sake of having the same caliber ammo.  An SKS or AK variant in 7.62 X 39 would be much cheaper and a fine backup.  (AND a Remington 870 7-shot synthetic too).

[highcountry]

It depends on what you are going to do with the guns.  The .223 is a varmint caliber and effective on humans.  Most any rifle caliber will be effective enough on humans.  I have a Mini 30 and it has been amazingly effective on large wild boar (250-275lbs).  I have no need for a .223 so the .30 caliber is great for my purposes.  I plink with cheap Russian stuff and hunt with Remington ammo.  The Russian stuff is pretty much junk with frequent misfires.

Your mileage may vary.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

As mentioned above the .308 is hard to beat. One of my sons shot a 200 yard, four shot, one hole group with his bolt action Tikka today while testing some heavy bullet handloads. You don't need to put a ton of lead down range if it goes where you want it to. His Tikka is the best shooting rifle I have ever held. It doesn't just shoot well but it's easier to shoot well than any other rifle I have shot. I've shot it out to 400 yards with lighter bullets and it's amazing. He's hoping to get good accuracy out to a 1000 yards with the heaver 175 grain sierras.

[BamaDrifter64]

My problem right now is I have a lot of different calibers - pistolwise I have a .38, a .380 and a 9mm.  Riflewise I have a .308, 7.62 x 39 and a .22.  Also have a couple of shotguns.  Just trying to figure out the best way to go to standardize my ammo.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I've got the same kind of problem. Too many calibers to stock a lot of ammo for all of them. I figure 100-150 rounds each for the single shots and bolt guns. 2000 rounds at least of long rifle. Whatever I can afford for the rest. Some of it is getting so pricey I don't want to shoot up much of what I've got. Even reloading components are too high.

[Serk]

Instead of buying lots of ammo all at once, I buy lots of individual reloading components at each gun show... Not a HUGE expenditure at any one time, but over time, I've built up a nice stockpile for the various calibers I shoot and reload...

I.E. One show I'll buy primers... Next show powder... Next show bullets, etc...

[RoadKill]

SIAGA makes an AK variant in .223 or 7.62x51 if long range accuracy (under 4inches at 100yds ) is not a concern.

7.62x39 is still relatively affordable and legal for use on some large game. I agree 7.62x51 (308win) is better all around.
My concern would be the future availability of the non reload able Russian 7.62X39 cartridge. Lefties will soon realize it's a good thing and ban it's importation. the question is ...what will the "blue helmets" be using when it hits the fan ? What ever they carry will be the more available cartridge and it will most likely be either 7.62X39 0r 556 NATO (.223) .

[Serk]

will most likely be either 7.62X39 0r 556 NATO (.223) .

IMHO, there's virtually no chance of the 7.62x39 being the main caliber carried by any foreign or domestic force in this country... The Russians don't use it anymore, their standard is the 5.45x39, and the Chinese use their own 5.8x42 or good ole' 5.56, and most any other nation that might be supplying soldiers wearing blue helmets would also be using 5.56...

Don't get me wrong, the 7.62x39 still has it's place, and if I were to stockpile I'd definitely include it in my hoard, but odds are against encountering any mainline military force using it today...

[Hoser]

I bought a 69.95 chinese sks in 1991 and 15000 rounds of berdan primed non reloadable 7.62x39 from the same source, packed in sealed tins for 9 cents a round. (which at that time was legal, Clinton took care of that as I knew he would)  I've shot over 3500 rounds and have cleaned the bore and working parts after each session.  It has never misfired or jammed, not even once.  Very accurate out to 100 yards, once you zero it. I'm savin the rest of it.   Hoser  

[stormrider]

Just a question on the 5.56 and 223 rounds and rifles some of you mentioned. Read somewhere that a 5.56 rifle can fire .223 but a .223 rifle cannot fire the 5.56. Or is it the other way around? Or did I read wrong? My oldest had a DPMS in .223 and it shot great. Had a red dot sight and was great fun to shoot. (I couldn't miss on multiple targets, put the red dot on target squeeze the trigger and whamo.) But as others have stated, I too, have had a sks for 20+ years and it still shoots great. The DPMS looks great, has lots of options, but options don't kill anything, bullets do. The .308 is a great all around gun and ammo readily available and has greater reach.

The biggest thing about "when the crap hits the fan", is the rest of us being organized. United we stand, divided, well, you know the score. And we are a very divided country.

[Serk]

Short Version - Shooting .223 in a 5.56 is safe, but not optimal. Shooting 5.56 in a .223 can be unsafe due to higher potential pressures. Other than bolt action rifles, _ALMOST_ all guns in this category of weapons can safely shoot either, but no guarantees...

Blatantly stolen straight from Wikipedia in this article for the long version:

The 5.56 mm NATO and .223 Remington cartridges and chamberings are similar but not identical. Military cases are generally made from thicker brass than commercial cases; this reduces the powder capacity (an important consideration for handloaders[12]), and the NATO specification allows a higher chamber pressure. NATO EPVAT test barrels made for 5.56 mm NATO measure chamber pressure at the case mouth, as opposed to the location used by the United States civil standards organization SAAMI. The piezoelectric sensors or transducers NATO and SAAMI use to conduct the actual pressure measurements also differ. This difference in measurement method accounts for upwards of 137.9 MPa (20,000 psi) difference in pressure measurements. This means the NATO EPVAT maximum service pressure of 430 MPa (62,366 psi) for 5.56 mm NATO, is reduced by SAAMI to 379.21 MPa (55,000 psi) for .223 Remington.[13] In contrast to SAAMI, the other main civil standards organization C.I.P. defines the maximum service and proof test pressures of the .223 Remington cartridge equal to the 5.56 mm NATO.

The 5.56 mm NATO chambering, known as a NATO or mil-spec chamber, has a longer leade, which is the distance between the mouth of the cartridge and the point at which the rifling engages the bullet. The .223 Remington chambering, known as SAAMI chamber, is allowed to have a shorter leade, and is only required to be proof tested to the lower SAAMI chamber pressure. To address these issues, various proprietary chambers exist, such as the Wylde chamber (Rock River Arms)[14] or the ArmaLite chamber, which are designed to handle both 5.56 mm NATO and .223 Remington equally well. The dimensions and leade of the .223 Remington minimum C.I.P. chamber also differ from the 5.56 mm NATO chamber specification.

Using commercial .223 Remington cartridges in a 5.56 mm NATO chambered rifle should work reliably, but generally will not be as accurate as when fired from a .223 Remington chambered gun due to the longer leade.[15] Using 5.56 mm NATO mil-spec cartridges (such as the M855) in a .223 Remington chambered rifle can lead to excessive wear and stress on the rifle and even be unsafe, and the SAAMI recommends against the practice.[16][17] Some commercial rifles marked as ".223 Remington" are in fact suited for 5.56 mm NATO, such as many commercial AR-15 variants and the Ruger Mini-14, but the manufacturer should always be consulted to verify that this is acceptable before attempting it, and signs of excessive pressure (such as flattening or gas staining of the primers) should be looked for in the initial testing with 5.56 mm NATO ammunition.[18]

It should also be noted that the upper receiver (to which the barrel with its chamber are attached) and the lower receiver are entirely separate parts in AR-15 style rifles. If the lower receiver has either .223 or 5.56 stamped on it, it does not guarantee the upper assembly is rated for the same caliber, because the upper and the lower receiver in same rifle can, and frequently do, come from different manufacturers - particularly with rifles sold to civilians or second-hand rifles.

In the more practical terms, as of late 2009 most AR-15 parts suppliers engineer their complete upper assemblies (not to be confused with stripped uppers where the barrel is not included) to support both calibers in order to protect their customers from injuries and to protect their businesses from litigation following the said injuries.

[czuch]

I do a payday allotment of $30.00 a payday.
I have many different calibers and thats how I work it.
 Shame it is getting so you cant go out and plink anymore.
I guess that would be IF I had any guns. Which I dont. Cause spoons made rosie o donnell fat. etc.

[solo1]

My SKS for reliability. I can carry lots of 7.62x39 ammo.

My Savage 12 bolt action 26' hb with 4x16 scope in .223.  Accuracy.  I can carry even more ammo

Lots of more powerful, bigger and better cartridges out there but if you have to carry the ammo?

[Pete]

If it must be just one caliber and you are in the US, 223(556 NATO).

Since you indicated multiple rifles, recommend, in the US 223 and 308 Winchester(7.62 NATO). Still current rounds in the US military, available in surplus quantities, also available commercial. The 308 when used correctly take anything in the US and has excellent long range capabilities and penetration when needed.

Rifle suggestions AR15(M4 version) and AR10. Some parts are common between the two, both work the same way and dis-assembly and clean up is also the same. Both can be setup to use a common scope, red dot or halo.

Both are excellent, reliable, available and somewhat expensive. ($700 to $1400).  Pete

[bsnicely]

AR-15  (5.56X45 ) with a spare upper in 7.62X39mm.  Best of both worlds..........

[RoadKill]

will most likely be either 7.62X39 0r 556 NATO (.223) .

IMHO, there's virtually no chance of the 7.62x39 being the main caliber carried by any foreign or domestic force in this country... The Russians don't use it anymore, their standard is the 5.45x39, and the Chinese use their own 5.8x42 or good ole' 5.56, and most any other nation that might be supplying soldiers wearing blue helmets would also be using 5.56...

Don't get me wrong, the 7.62x39 still has it's place, and if I were to stockpile I'd definitely include it in my hoard, but odds are against encountering any mainline military force using it today...

I agree with you completely Serk. Altho' I have heard many good arguments to the contrary including that Russia still manufactures ALOT of 7.62x39 for export at the Tula plant,south america is overflowing with it as well as many other 3rd world countries that hate us, and we are not the only ones stock piling it. If it is a U.N. army scenario I think the old NATO cartridges is what will be carried,especially  556.

[Jess from VA]

If they are Nato forces, just go out and yell at them.  They'll get ascaird and run away.