Just had minor surgery

[Chrisj CMA]

The more I think about it. I doubt the length of the shock is an accurate enough standard to not have faith in the torque line to set the axle at a 90degree angle to the swing arm. So axle four nuts and then shocks will remain my sequence. It’s worked for a quarter of a million miles so far. That’s my evidence, has worked for me. No need to change.

[Valker]

It was NOT superseded in the manuals. The ONLY TIME I HAD A Honda certified dealer replace my rear tire, they did not loosen the four bolt. Ruined splines happened within 10,000 miles.

[Avanti]

The more I think about it. I doubt the length of the shock is an accurate enough standard to not have faith in the torque line to set the axle at a 90degree angle to the swing arm. So axle four nuts and then shocks will remain my sequence. It’s worked for a quarter of a million miles so far. That’s my evidence, has worked for me. No need to change.

I have no doubt that this is the best sequence to use for rear wheel alignment. It assures that the stacked parts on the rear axle when torqued create a straight beam.

[Bagger John - #3785]

It was NOT superseded in the manuals. The ONLY TIME I HAD A Honda certified dealer replace my rear tire, they did not loosen the four bolt. Ruined splines happened within 10,000 miles.

I always pull, inspect and reinstall the final drive any time the wheel comes off. Yes, I've heard stories about that happening.

Were those splines lubed by said dealer? Failure mode?

[Valker]

It was NOT superseded in the manuals. The ONLY TIME I HAD A Honda certified dealer replace my rear tire, they did not loosen the four bolt. Ruined splines happened within 10,000 miles.

I always pull, inspect and reinstall the final drive any time the wheel comes off. Yes, I've heard stories about that happening.

Were those splines lubed by said dealer? Failure mode?

Not lubed, they never even loosened the four bolts. Raised the bike way up and pulled the tire/wheel off the final drive. 

[Chrisj CMA]

Good discussion so far. I hope some have learned something. I know I did. For new Valkers or old ones new to doing rear end service, here’s the most important pieces to keep in mind for wheel and final drive installation.

Understand why to do these things as opposed to just memorizing steps. That way if you need to ever improvise you know what not to do

Ok,  the grease is important but not as you may think. I had one bike that ONLY used Bel Ray waterproof grease. His splines stayed perfect without any moly ever being added. I’m not saying don’t use moly paste. I do. Just saying high quality grease that stays in there is actually more important than what brand or type.

Second you must put a generous amount of said grease in the female splines in the drive and just a little on the male splines on the drive flange. This insures your grease doesn’t get mostly pushed off when the flange goes into the drive at wheel installation.

Third alignment of the wheel and final drive is the MOST important piece to accomplish. Alignment is achieved when the axle is torqued as long as....the rear tire is off the ground, the four nuts to the final drive swing arm connection are loose.

Torque settings are important especially on the axle nut and four drive nuts. I don’t use a torque wrench
much but I always do on those.

Whatever method you use to get the big girl off the ground just make sure nothing is braced up under the wheel or the drive when you torque the axle nut.

Lastly. A very important detail to pay attention to is, torque the four drive nuts IMMEDIATELY after the axle nut and most certainly before lowering her to the ground

For the drive shaft and pinion cup:

In the pinion cup there are two holes that allow some final drive oil to splash in to keep the splines wet. Make sure those are clear when you re assemble but still apply enough grease to fill the valleys in between the teeth of the splines on the pinion cup end of the drive shaft. Same thing for the u-joint end. Fill the valleys with grease.

Make sure the oil seal on the drive shaft is tight and looks new. If not replace. I replace it at least every other tire so that’s four rear end services per oil seal.

[Bagger John - #3785]

Whatever method you use to get the big girl off the ground just make sure nothing is braced up under the wheel or the drive when you torque the axle nut.

This is definitely my #1 rule when servicing the rear end.

Engine is supported by a bike lift. Swingarm is supported by a heavy-duty screw jack and wood blocks. (I got a hella deal on a Kawasaki shop jack and adapters...though I wouldn't recommend the average person pay $600+ MSRP for one of these.)

When the rear end goes together and the axle is torqued, the entire thing is hanging in the air - in the same position it was prior to disassembly. Free rotation (the absence of binding) is checked repeatedly through multiple revolutions of the wheel.

Some assumptions:

If the cush drive is in proper order (spline carrier pins not binding and rubber dampers in good shape), new thrust washer, O rings and sufficient lube applied plus wheel bearing play within spec, there should be no stiction or binding whatsoever in the drive assembly - and no off-axis wear as a result.

I'm also the type who doesn't make a shop any money on a simple tire change, as the entire rear end is serviced during one. That involves a lot of cleaning and inspection. When the wheel is off at the shop waiting for new meat to be installed I spend several hours on the final drive, drive shaft, brakes, shock bushings...anything I can't get at during the course of normal, routine maintenance.

Having personally seen the effects of a slap-dash job by a dealer on a rear end during a tire change (for which people were billed for spline R&R/lubing, etc.) I'd rather take the long way home and do the entire procedure while it's apart.

[clanky]

Chris,  I've used your shoptalk rear end article and it worked great.  I'm going to take you up on your offer to help others while healing from surgery.  My issue is with my clutch.  A year back I refurbished my brakes front and rear, new master cylinder seals and brake caliper seals.  Thought I would do the clutch while I was at it since I hadn't touched the clutch fluid since new.  I've been doing brake work for 30+ years and can't seem to get the clutch to work correctly.  I've rebuilt the master and slave cylinders (ie changes seals) twice and still have problems with clutch operation.  Basically if I sit at a stop light, in gear, with clutch lever pulled in I have about a minute before I feel the clutch starting to engage and moving the bike forward.  Is there some kind of a special bleeding process to the clutch. The cylinder walls on the master and slave cylinders are smooth (no scratches whatsoever) with an almost mirror finish so I don't think I am dealing with a scored wall issue.  I've bled the system using both the manual pumping of the clutch lever and opening and closing the bleed valve, and using a vacuum hand pump bleeding tool. Same symptom.  Any ideas?  Thanks  Matt

[Chrisj CMA]

Hey clunky. I’ve done some of the same maintenance to my clutch as you did. Fortunately for me everything came out great. I can only think of two things given the rebuilds we’re done correctly. One you might empty the master cylinder and make sure that little vent hole isint gummed up. If that’s good you could try reverse bleeding. Forcing fluid from the bleed valve up to the master. That’s all I’ve got dude.

PS. One more thing. If you open the master cylinder and just quickly pump the clutch lever many times you can coax air up out of the line. Remove the rubber diaphragm and little surf board thinggy and see if you can get some bubbles. If you get bubbles. Keep doing it until no bubbles.

[Valker]

Zip tie or wrap something around the fully squeezed clutch lever so it stays squeezed against the hand grip at LEAST overnight-two might be better. That usually allows the tiny hidden air bubbles to float to the master. Easy and fast to try.

[RonW]

Does anybody else find it a tight fit getting the torque wrench on the top-inner bolt? I've been hash marking the bolt with an alignment line with a felt pen.

[Chrisj CMA]

Does anybody else find it a tight fit getting the torque wrench on the top-inner bolt? I've been hash marking the bolt with an alignment line with a felt pen.

I used to just use a box wrench on that one. I have found now if the shock is off I can get my torque wrench on all of them.

[RonW]

I should try that.

[Bagger John - #3785]

I have a couple very thin wall/high strength 6pt 3/8" dr sockets which will fit over that particular nut.

Hint: Use lots of extensions and put the torque wrench head well clear of the swingarm pivot area.

For removal a 6pt box end wrench works nicely.

[Chrisj CMA]

I have a couple very thin wall/high strength 6pt 3/8" dr sockets which will fit over that particular nut.

Hint: Use lots of extensions and put the torque wrench head well clear of the swingarm pivot area.

For removal a 6pt box end wrench works nicely.

Now granted, everyone’s strength is different but I found by tightening and then checking with the torque wrench. With a short “normal” box wrench the tightest I could make that nut without extreme effort was around 50 lbs

[RonW]

"Hint: Use lots of extensions ....."

but won't that throw off the torque reading? just asking.

[Chrisj CMA]

"Hint: Use lots of extensions ....."

but won't that throw off the torque reading? just asking.

Technically maybe but it’s not critical it’s exactly 47lbs. I usually hit 50 on the bar torque wrench.  Do it enough times and you know what approx 47 feels like

[Skinhead]

get yourselves a set of wobble extensions.

https://harborfreight.com/search?q=wobble%20socket

[Chrisj CMA]

get yourselves a set of wobble extensions.

https://harborfreight.com/search?q=wobble%20socket

That’s cool, never heard of them

[Bagger John - #3785]

"Hint: Use lots of extensions ....."

but won't that throw off the torque reading? just asking.

Linear (inline with the fastener to be tightened)? No.

Angular (offset by a certain distance from center)? Yes.

There are formulae by which correction factors as a function of distance and applied angle (if other than 90 degrees) can be calculated.

[Bagger John - #3785]

get yourselves a set of wobble extensions.

https://harborfreight.com/search?q=wobble%20socket

Those get factored into my "lots of extensions" bit. Have them in 1/4 and 3/8dr; not yet needed for 1/2. If that big of a system comes out, things are fixing to get ugly anyway. 

[Chrisj CMA]

"Hint: Use lots of extensions ....."

but won't that throw off the torque reading? just asking.

Linear (inline with the fastener to be tightened)? No.

Angular (offset by a certain distance from center)? Yes.

There are formulae by which correction factors as a function of distance and applied angle (if other than 90 degrees) can be calculated.

Not worth calculating. If three are at 47 accurately and one is a close estimate you will be fine. Or just use 50lbs instead and be sure to have it covered

[Avanti]

I would definitely pay extra not to see or hear the word china or stolen on my parts.

[Jims99]

I try and send my money as local as possible. Always try to support the smaller businesses. Thanks for the catch on those.

PS. How’s the recovery going. Hopefully back up to normal soon.

[Chrisj CMA]

I can sit for short periods comfortably and sitting on the bike is more comfortable than a chair. Soon, soon    

[Bagger John - #3785]

I try and send my money as local as possible. Always try to support the smaller businesses. Thanks for the catch on those.

This right here.

[Ramie]

I would definitely pay extra not to see or hear the word china or stolen on my parts.

  Amen!

[RonW]

So Chrisj, how's the transplant going so far?

[Chrisj CMA]

So Chrisj, how's the transplant going so far?

Transplant?  No it was just an ectomy. Lol. I’m thinking about riding to church tomorrow

[RonW]

opps, typo!

[Chrisj CMA]

Ok. What I learned through my adventure:

Many more of us are plagued by these little devils than I ever thought

One month and I’m 100%. Now a month is a small amount of time when you’re normal. When you have this procedure done an hour is a huge piece of time.

So if any of you are destined to travel this path, hold on for the first 72. After that it’s tolerable and after two weeks there’s an audible sigh of relief. And after a month you get your life back.

[GWS]

So glad to hear you've fully recovered.

Your wealth of experience and willingness to share it is invaluable.  Thank you!!

[Chrisj CMA]

So glad to hear you've fully recovered.

Your wealth of experience and willingness to share it is invaluable.  Thank you!!

Thank You

[RonW]

you still keep da Valkyrie in the living room?

[Chrisj CMA]

you still keep da Valkyrie in the living room?

Family room. But yes she enjoys constant climate control year round.

[Grey wolf oz]

you still keep da Valkyrie in the living room?

Family room. But yes she enjoys constant climate control year round.

where else do you keep a valk ???  i mean creature comforts and all !!