EV vehicle info

[Patrick]

Just read some info on difference between fossil fuel and EV vehicles.

Average cost of fossil vehicle is $46K and EV is $63K

Cost of 'fill-up' for EV ranges from $20-45 depending on how and where its done. That also depends on the length of time ranging from 30 minutes to 3 days.

That article didn't get into difference in the charge plugs or the cost of wiring the garage.

[hubcapsc]

$55.00 to fill up my Mini Cooper...

-Mike

[Patrick]

I've recently $90 in the trucks fuel tank which didn't last as long as I would have liked.

But, a lot a gasoline can be bought for $17K. Maybe once the technology, batteries, infrastructure, etc all gets better Maybe then I might be interested in an EV. But, on second thought, Naaaa.

The EV I have right now thats made by EZGO is probably the only one I'll ever have.

[Avanti]

$55.00 to fill up my Mini Cooper...

-Mike

How far can you go on a charge?

[John Schmidt]

$55.00 to fill up my Mini Cooper...

-Mike

How far can you go on a charge?

I know I can go farther on a fill-up of my '08 Toyota Highlander than any EV I've heard of so far.

[Dave Ritsema]

Those aren't the numbers I am seeing. A young Engineer I work with recently bought a brand new Tesla Model 3 long range for $51K all in. He also is getting some additional tax incentive thru the state for $4000.

350 mile range, 145 MPH top speed and when he does pay for it, (many free chargers in this area including our work) it costs about $16 to "fill it up".

His charging bill last month was $28 and he traveled about 1800 miles.

Oh, and it took less than 60 days from the time he ordered it to the time it came in. I waited 18 months for my Bronco Badlands and $28 will get me back and forth to work MAYBE 3 times.

That kid ain't dumb. LOL

Just read some info on difference between fossil fuel and EV vehicles.

Average cost of fossil vehicle is $46K and EV is $63K

Cost of 'fill-up' for EV ranges from $20-45 depending on how and where its done. That also depends on the length of time ranging from 30 minutes to 3 days.

That article didn't get into difference in the charge plugs or the cost of wiring the garage.

[scooperhsd]

$55.00 to fill up my Mini Cooper...

-Mike

How far can you go on a charge?

I know I can go farther on a fill-up of my '08 Toyota Highlander than any EV I've heard of so far.

I can go further on a tank of fuel in my 2000 VW NB TDI (Manual transmission) than probably 90-95% of vehicles on the road (I have personally gone 725 miles on a tank - 17 gallons, only 42.6 MPG - I have been known to get 45 or better).

[carolinarider09]

, (many free chargers in this area including our work) it costs about $16 to "fill it up".

[/quote]

Just a note:  Those "free" chargers are not free.  You and I pay for them.  But then.........   

[cookiedough]

a few EV new vehicles I have seen are in that 50K range or tad higher as well not over 60K with tax incentives as well to help offset.

Still,  50K or even 45K for any EV vehicle is even more than my 43K I paid 5 months ago for my 2022 new tundra, which was for us pushing it.  Unfortunately, with gas creeping 4  bucks per gallon, I have mostly let it sit past month or more only 3100 miles on it in 5 months. 

[F6Dave]

Battery powered stuff is great. Smartphones have replaced cameras, pay phones, and lots of other devices. I haven't used a corded power tool in years, and now have a battery powered grass trimmer and even a chain saw. Batter power makes a lot of sense for smaller commuting vehicles, especially motorcycles.

But there are limits. A Tesla battery pack weighs 1,200 pounds and costs about $10,000. Prices of lithium, nickel, and other metals are skyrocketing, and I've read some EV battery packs are approaching $20,000. Yet these packs only store about $15 worth of electricity. Charging cycles degrade all batteries, so when the range of an older EV begins to get noticeably shorter, you'll need a replacement. That will increase the cost of ownership significantly.

But once again I'll ask the question nobody ever answers: where will we get enough electricity to charge hundreds of millions of new EVs? Our grid is already at the breaking point, with major blackouts tripling in frequency since 2015. With Americans driving 3.22 TRILLION MILES in just their personal vehicles last year, an EV transition will require a staggering amount of new generating capacity.

We simply don't have enough electricity for this 'transition'. If we continue down this foolish path, we don't need to look far to see what's in store for us. This summer, the UK will begin rationing electricity. EV chargers will be required in new construction (both residential and commercial), but they won't function from 8-11 AM or from 4-10 PM.  During periods of high demand, the chargers reverse flow to siphon energy out of your vehicle's battery pack.  That's energy redistribution!  And building codes will require the chargers to be metered separately, so owners can pay a higher rate to charge their EVs. It's too bad these issues get so little coverage in the media. Maybe they have an agenda.

[hubcapsc]

I haven't used a corded power tool in years... But there are limits.

I have a studly DeWalt Flexvolt circular saw. I *almost* only use it.
I have a bunch of two inch thick 20 feet long pine boards salvaged from
a cotton mill. Resawing one of them into 2 one inch thick 20 foot long boards
sucks down most of a battery and heats it up so much that it has to cool down
before it will start charging. I only did that once or twice. My corded circular
saw will resaw those boards as long as I want to do it.

But once again I'll ask the question nobody ever answers: where will we get enough
electricity to charge hundreds of millions of new EVs?

Here's a question nobody ever asks: why would we expend exorbitant amounts of
money and superhuman effort to create a grid that overflows with extra capacity?

Less than 3% of cars are EV. It is not a secret that the future will bring many more.
The grid is not being overlooked, it is the focus of intense scrutiny:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_power_transmission_grid#Proposed_improvements

We have enough capacity today. My lights turn on. We will have enough capacity next year.
My lights will still turn on. People in California will live with brownouts and like it or they'll
do something about it. They're suffering from a political problem, not an energy supply
problem. I'm surrounded by nuclear plants, West Virginia is still chock full of
coal and technology for long-distance transmission lines is in the works to bring wind and solar power
from the middle of nowhere to population centers.

Lithium doesn't change into a different element after a battery ages out. The lithium
the Chinese mined out of the mountains of Chile is in little plastic boxes in The United
States now, it is not gone.

-Mike

PS: we went to the grocery store yesterday and charged Carolyn's car at
one of their chargers. It was free. It didn't cost us anything. It didn't cost
carolinarider anything. The government didn't pay for it. Ingles used a
miniscule amount of the money they might have otherwise used to run
a mayonnaise commercial on teevee to fund it. They do stuff like that so
that we shop at Ingles instead of across the street at Publix.

[Patrick]

Battery powered stuff is great. Smartphones have replaced cameras, pay phones, and lots of other devices. I haven't used a corded power tool in years, and now have a battery powered grass trimmer and even a chain saw. Batter power makes a lot of sense for smaller commuting vehicles, especially motorcycles.

But there are limits. A Tesla battery pack weighs 1,200 pounds and costs about $10,000. Prices of lithium, nickel, and other metals are skyrocketing, and I've read some EV battery packs are approaching $20,000. Yet these packs only store about $15 worth of electricity. Charging cycles degrade all batteries, so when the range of an older EV begins to get noticeably shorter, you'll need a replacement. That will increase the cost of ownership significantly.

But once again I'll ask the question nobody ever answers: where will we get enough electricity to charge hundreds of millions of new EVs? Our grid is already at the breaking point, with major blackouts tripling in frequency since 2015. With Americans driving 3.22 TRILLION MILES in just their personal vehicles last year, an EV transition will require a staggering amount of new generating capacity.

We simply don't have enough electricity for this 'transition'. If we continue down this foolish path, we don't need to look far to see what's in store for us. This summer, the UK will begin rationing electricity. EV chargers will be required in new construction (both residential and commercial), but they won't function from 8-11 AM or from 4-10 PM.  During periods of high demand, the chargers reverse flow to siphon energy out of your vehicle's battery pack.  That's energy redistribution!  And building codes will require the chargers to be metered separately, so owners can pay a higher rate to charge their EVs. It's too bad these issues get so little coverage in the media. Maybe they have an agenda.

Yep, the grid issue question gets asked quite often by some, but, gets very few answers. Its something we have neglected for decades and to bring up to par I think is almost undoable within the foreseeable future unless we get our fannies in gear and go to work on it right now.
This administration isn't about to do it.

[carolinarider09]

I haven't used a corded power tool in years... But there are limits.


Here's a question nobody ever asks: why would we expend exorbitant amounts of
money and superhuman effort to create a grid that overflows with extra capacity?

Less than 3% of cars are EV. It is not a secret that the future will bring many more.
The grid is not being overlooked, it is the focus of intense scrutiny:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_power_transmission_grid#Proposed_improvements

We have enough capacity today. My lights turn on. We will have enough capacity next year.
My lights will still turn on. People in California will live with brownouts and like it or they'll
do something about it. They're suffering from a political problem, not an energy supply
problem. I'm surrounded by nuclear plants, West Virginia is still chock full of
coal and technology for long-distance transmission lines is in the works to bring wind and solar power
from the middle of nowhere to population centers.

-Mike

PS: we went to the grocery store yesterday and charged Carolyn's car at
one of their chargers. It was free. It didn't cost us anything. It didn't cost
carolinarider anything. The government didn't pay for it. Ingles used a
miniscule amount of the money they might have otherwise used to run
a mayonnaise commercial on teevee to fund it. They do stuff like that so
that we shop at Ingles instead of across the street at Publix.

One at a time

1.
"I haven't used a corded power tool in years... But there are limits."

I use corroded power tools frequently.  My Craftsman table saw (about 30 yeas old) for doing precise cuts for width and even doing some groves.

My DeWalt "chop" saw.  Use it very often, especially to do all the cutting for the steps for the bridge.  Also used it for angle cuts on the bridge trusses.

My DeWalt impact wrench for lugs and heavy duty galvanized wood screes in big timbers.

Both are much more reliable than battery powered equipment.  My brand new Milwaukee battery powered drill (about one year old) just had one its batteries fail to charge.  Replacement cost $190.00

2.
Here's a question nobody ever asks: why would we expend exorbitant amounts of
money and superhuman effort to create a grid that overflows with extra capacity?

Your use of the word "exorbitant" is interesting. 

How about this.    You get your power (for you home) from Carolinarider Power Company (CPC).  You have a contract with CPC to provide you power based the average monthly usage of 1000 KWhrs.  This value is based on your annual usage of 12,000 KWhr. 

CPC builds a power plant just to meet your needs.  They have a choice.  Build a 1000 KWhr power plant or......  maybe build a 1200 KWhr because in the summer you use more power to cool your house then you use in the spring and fall (No A/C needed).  Nope, you don't want to have "exorbitant" extra capacity.

So CPC builds a 1000 HWhr power plant just for you.   But in the spring and fall you only use about 800 KWhrs of electricity.  Oh well,,, you are paying for the extra anyway.  In the summer you need 1200 KWhrs. Sorry, you only get 1000 KWhrs, you will have to turn your A/C off at bed time so you will have power in the morning.  Or maybe only use CPC power for 25 days of the month and just wing it the other five days. 

Oh and don't forget maintenance on the CPC power plant you are being powered with. It must be shut down every year for at least one week for maintenance.  I guess it would be a good time for you to take a vacation since you would not have power. 

But at least there would be no grid that overflows with extra capacity

3.
We went to the grocery store yesterday and charged Carolyn's car at
one of their chargers. It was free. It didn't cost us anything. It didn't cost
carolinarider anything. The government didn't pay for it. Ingles used a
miniscule amount of the money they might have otherwise used to run
a mayonnaise commercial on teevee to fund it. They do stuff like that so
that we shop at Ingles instead of across the street at Publix.

Economics 101.  Nothing is Free.  The money might have been minuscule to you but the loss of the mayonnaise commercial on TV means that someone somewhere was not paid for doing work which means they made less money.   NOTHING IS FREE!!!!!!!!! 

If you can charge your car for free, then I should get some free gas, RiGHT!!! After all, it would make me shop there instead of across the street right?   How come you get special treatment because you have an EV????   How come they give you free stuff and not me????

If I did get some "free" gas for shopping do you think that they would just "cover it"??????    Remember the old saying sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander


If you get free sauce, I should get free sauce as well.

Oh, I forget, Wikipedia is not a reliable source of information anyone can edit it and now the owners only let edits they like stay.

[hubcapsc]

If you can charge your car for free, then I should get some free gas, RiGHT!!!

You must not shop at Ingles. We get free gas too.

-Mike

[F6Dave]

We're being led into a trap. Not long ago that may have been a conspiracy theory, but it's actually happening. We're being enticed to buy EVs with tax credits, subsidies, cheap (and even 'free') charging. States like California are mandating EV sales by requiring an increasing percentage of new vehicles to be EVs. Manufacturers will help by discounting EVs, paid for by higher priced ICE powered vehicles.

But the promises of low costs for all will quickly evaporate as they did with Obamacare. Once we're hooked, the drug pusher's business model kicks in and charging prices will rise. The UK's method of requiring separate metering for chargers makes this easy. A separate physical meter isn't even required; the charger can track usage and send data to the utility and/or government. Higher charging rates are necessary to pay for roads, but base rates will also rise as more expensive wind and solar is added to the grid. Those intermittent, weather dependent energy sources cost far more than claimed as they require 100% backup from reliable power plants. Conventional plants provide inexpensive energy when used continuously, but they become much more costly when used only for occasional backup.

If the green religion's doctrine get's fully implemented get ready for the final result: shortages and rationing. A complete EV transition could require a doubling of grid capacity, and that's unlikely. If we continue down this path we'll pay a lot more to drive, if we can drive at all.

[Jersey mike]

We're being led into a trap. Not long ago that may have been a conspiracy theory, but it's actually happening. We're being enticed to buy EVs with tax credits, subsidies, cheap (and even 'free') charging. States like California are mandating EV sales by requiring an increasing percentage of new vehicles to be EVs. Manufacturers will help by discounting EVs, paid for by higher priced ICE powered vehicles.

But the promises of low costs for all will quickly evaporate as they did with Obamacare. Once we're hooked, the drug pusher's business model kicks in and charging prices will rise. The UK's method of requiring separate metering for chargers makes this easy. A separate physical meter isn't even required; the charger can track usage and send data to the utility and/or government. Higher charging rates are necessary to pay for roads, but base rates will also rise as more expensive wind and solar is added to the grid. Those intermittent, weather dependent energy sources cost far more than claimed as they require 100% backup from reliable power plants. Conventional plants provide inexpensive energy when used continuously, but they become much more costly when used only for occasional backup.

If the green religion's doctrine get's fully implemented get ready for the final result: shortages and rationing. A complete EV transition could require a doubling of grid capacity, and that's unlikely. If we continue down this path we'll pay a lot more to drive, if we can drive at all.

Sure I can see that happening no problem at all. All things “phased in” just like many rights are being phased out.

[hubcapsc]

We're being enticed to buy EVs with tax credits, subsidies, cheap (and even 'free') charging.

Most (by far) EVs are Teslas. They don't qualify for tax credits. You have a point, though, the free
charger at Ingles supermarket is probably part of a conspiracy. Tesla public superchargers cost
an amount of money based on the free market. Chargers at your house cost the same amount
of money as your stove.

A complete EV transition could require a doubling of grid capacity, and that's unlikely.

Why is is grid work unlikely?

-Mike

[hubcapsc]

just like many rights are being phased out.

Which rights?

Y'all have been taught to hate the woke with an irrational fervor.
The super-woke are falling out of favor even with the democrats,
as an example, the recall of woke school board members in
SAN FRANCISCO...

-Mike

[F6Dave]

A complete EV transition could require a doubling of grid capacity, and that's unlikely.

Why is is grid work unlikely?

-Mike

We get well over 80% of our electricity from fossil fuels, and their contribution has remained virtually unchanged for 30 years. Demand has grown, but wind and solar haven't even kept up with the increase. Therefore, a massive increase in grid capacity to handle millions of new EVs would require a lot of new conventional (nuclear/nat gas/coal) power plants. With disciples of the green religion currently running the EPA and DOE, and banks being pressured not to lend to the evil fossil fuel industry, I'd say a massive expansion of our grid is very unlikely.

Here's an interesting fact: the average EV gets driven about 5,000 miles per year, and there's almost always another vehicle (ICE powered) in the household. It seems like a lot of them are commuter cars for rich people.

[six2go #152]

Those aren't the numbers I am seeing. A young Engineer I work with recently bought a brand new Tesla Model 3 long range for $51K all in. He also is getting some additional tax incentive thru the state for $4000.

350 mile range, 145 MPH top speed and when he does pay for it, (many free chargers in this area including our work) it costs about $16 to "fill it up".

His charging bill last month was $28 and he traveled about 1800 miles.

Oh, and it took less than 60 days from the time he ordered it to the time it came in. I waited 18 months for my Bronco Badlands and $28 will get me back and forth to work MAYBE 3 times.

That kid ain't dumb. LOL

Just read some info on difference between fossil fuel and EV vehicles.

Average cost of fossil vehicle is $46K and EV is $63K

Cost of 'fill-up' for EV ranges from $20-45 depending on how and where its done. That also depends on the length of time ranging from 30 minutes to 3 days.

That article didn't get into difference in the charge plugs or the cost of wiring the garage.

Jeez Dave, how dare you come in here with facts. 

[scooperhsd]

I had a battery powered drill once. Everytime I needed to use it, I needed to charge "a" battery (if not more) BEFORE starting work (sitting around, they lose charge). Went back to standard corded drill.

At my NC house, I went through 3 different mowers.
#1 was a modern version of the old fashioned push mower that the wheels turning turned the blades. Worked pretty well - until the grass got too tall.
#2 was a corded electric mower. except for the bother of the extension cords (and I needed a lot of LONG ones - 120 feet driveway with an area to mow down at the cul-de-sac) . Worked pretty good. Unfortunately, I had a few times that I ran over said extension cords... no injuries to me, fortunately.
#3 was a gas powered push mower. This, IMO, was the ultimate for my yard / mowing situation.

Here at the house in KC, MIL has a John Deere (Lowes version) lawn tractor. Works pretty well for the almost .75 acres we have to mow.

All my other power tools have also been plugged in corded AC - the only to do it for serious use.

I've stated more than once my opinions about EVs for highway use...

[hubcapsc]

I've stated more than once my opinions about EVs for highway use...

Me too  ...

Sorry you're missing out on all the great battery powered tools available today,
I pretty much hate corded and gas powered tools now...

-Mike

[Jess from VA]

I never want a battery car, but my lithium drill kicks ass, and holds charge forever (not used that much).

[carolinarider09]

Actually my new Milwaukee lithium ion powered drill is good except one of the batteries failed this past week and coast $190 for a new one or I can send it off to "somewhere" with the charger and "someone" will replace the batteries of for $90.

Meanwhile my older, non lithium ion powered drill work on, even the one that is 10 years old. 


So.............   just some facts.....

[..]

My Ryobi drill, circular saw and chain saw are great.

My gas leaf blower runs well but if it breaks I'll take a look at a Ryobi - if they make one and it's compatible with the 2 batteries I have.

[..]

https://smokymountainnews.com/outdoors/item/33297-plugged-in-cherokee-receives-state-s-first-electric-school-bus

[Patrick]

https://smokymountainnews.com/outdoors/item/33297-plugged-in-cherokee-receives-state-s-first-electric-school-bus

When Kamala hears this I'm sure she'll get so giddy she won't be able to control herself. I hope she has her Depends on.

[Avanti]

I hope they have a bus that runs on diesel for a backup to go save the children.

[hubcapsc]

I hope they have a bus that runs on diesel for a backup to go save the children.

We've only had electric busses here in Seneca SC for quite a few years
now. You wouldn't believe how many I've seen broke down on the road: none  ...

They're my favorite kind of bus to be stopped next to at a long red light too.

-Mike

[Jersey mike]

I hope they have a bus that runs on diesel for a backup to go save the children.

We've only had electric busses here in Seneca SC for quite a few years
now. You wouldn't believe how many I've seen broke down on the road: none  ...

They're my favorite kind of bus to be stopped next to at a long red light too.

-Mike

There are certain areas of society EV’s are feasible. However to get the majority of society to use them is a whole other topic.

For instance, recharge over night, have you seen a large apartment complex with hundreds of cars? Now multiply that by tens of thousands. Who’s going to pay to install chargers at these sites? Who’s going to want to wait until it’s their turn to plug in at 2am (in the middle of winter, or hurricane or thunderstorms or risk of mugging) if there isn’t enough chargers to fill the need and who’s going to get up and move their car at 2 am when their car is finished charging? Will the property owners be held accountable to fund a the whole thing or will the local power companies step up/step in to accomplish the issue. How much will the federal government spoon out for credits, grants or loans?

This is a bit off topic but this is what our governor is attempting regarding the use of natural gas.
There are millions of nat. gas users here in NJ. I’m suppose to transition my house from nat gas to electric? Do you (rhetorically speaking) know how many homes and businesses transitioned in the 80’s from all electric to nat gas around here? There were whole neighborhoods built on an all electric base and it was so expensive for heating and cooking with electric was not desirable let alone the power outage issue. When the power goes out, there goes cooking, hot water and some heat, many people installed nat gas fireplaces in their homes for emergency use as well as atheistic purposes.

This isn’t like going to the station to pump 12 gallons of gas in a few minutes so there’s no comparison in that regard.

https://www.nj.com/opinion/2021/09/cooking-with-gas-not-if-governor-murphys-plan-goes-through-mulshine.html

[hubcapsc]

For instance, recharge over night, have you seen a large apartment complex with hundreds of cars? Now multiply that by tens of thousands. Who’s going to pay to install chargers at these sites?

The same people who pay for the insulation in the walls and the carpet on the floors.

People whose cold dead hands will never touch an electric car might choose not to
move into apartments where their slot comes with a charger, and people who love electric
cars will only move into apartments where their slot comes with a charger.

Currently less than 3% of cars are electric. Is it a real problem, or an imaginary
problem, that apartment complexes don't yet have chargers for all residents?

-Mike

[hubcapsc]

 
This is a bit off topic but this is what our governor is attempting regarding the use of natural gas.
There are millions of nat. gas users here in NJ. I’m suppose to transition my house from nat gas to electric?

https://newjerseymonitor.com/2021/09/08/growing-chorus-of-critics-want-to-hit-the-brakes-on-n-j-electric-heating-mandate/

The way I see it, y'all can like it, or vote in some different governors... some green wokeness
is already crumbling in places like Seattle and San Francisco.

-Mike

[Jersey mike]

For instance, recharge over night, have you seen a large apartment complex with hundreds of cars? Now multiply that by tens of thousands. Who’s going to pay to install chargers at these sites?

The same people who pay for the insulation in the walls and the carpet on the floors.

People whose cold dead hands will never touch an electric car might choose not to
move into apartments where their slot comes with a charger, and people who love electric
cars will only move into apartments where their slot comes with a charger.

Currently less than 3% of cars are electric. Is it a real problem, or an imaginary
problem, that apartment complexes don't yet have chargers for all residents?

-Mike

The cost of installing an electrical source is expensive. I did a quick search and came up with several sources but this one is the most recent but mimics many the info of other sources however it’s for private homes.

The initial layout for property owners of apartment complex’s would be even greater. Potentially pushing the in the million dollar mark to run dedicated lines from tje source underground or overhead to each dedicated parking slot equipped with the necessary charging equipment (more dollars) and possibly a visitors lot.

Take a complex with 200 apartments and only 1 parking spot per apartment, that’s 200 chargers. Now suppose there’s 2 people on a lease of 1/3 of those apartments that’s another 66 chargers needed for when the hammer drops and all people are required to transfer to EV’s.

The complex owners are not going to absorb the installation costs, it will be added into rental fees which means rents go up plus the added expense for maintenance of the charging station due to weather and use and abuse. The issue is just like we have here in NJ with tolls, toll expenses never get removed. So even when the entire cost of upgrading has been paid for rents will never decrease or go away.

https://www.realtor.com/advice/home-improvement/installing-electric-vehicle-charger/

[Jersey mike]

This is a bit off topic but this is what our governor is attempting regarding the use of natural gas.
There are millions of nat. gas users here in NJ. I’m suppose to transition my house from nat gas to electric?

https://newjerseymonitor.com/2021/09/08/growing-chorus-of-critics-want-to-hit-the-brakes-on-n-j-electric-heating-mandate/

The way I see it, y'all can like it, or vote in some different governors... some green wokeness
is already crumbling in places like Seattle and San Francisco.

-Mike

If we ever get another Republican Governor again I’ll be surprised. Almost all of NJ is in full woke mode.

[hubcapsc]

Almost all of NJ is in full woke mode.

But will it last when everyone has a mandated heat pump?
I like my heat pump here in South Carolina, I chose it. I imagine
a heat pump in a cold place will really make the dial on the
power meter $pin...

-Mike

[F6Dave]

I took my first overnight ride of the year Sunday. I was having breakfast at a hotel in eastern Wyoming yesterday and the subject of Teslas came up. With chargers few and far between you don't see many Teslas on the road in Wyoming. But enough pass through that two ended up in a wrecking yard owned by a friend of someone I met at breakfast.

One apparently suffered a typical collision, but the other ended up there due to more unusual circumstances. The owner was changing a tire when the jack slipped and pierced the battery pack. I've read that this can short the batteries and start a fire, which luckily didn't happen in this case. However, damage to the battery pack was severe enough to require replacement. With Tesla battery pack prices skyrocketing past $10K, the insurance company totaled the car and sent it to the wrecking yard. So far, the wrecking yard owner hasn't found buyers for anything from his wrecked Tesla collection.

[carolinarider09]

I took my first overnight ride of the year Sunday. I was having breakfast at a hotel in eastern Wyoming yesterday and the subject of Teslas came up. With chargers few and far between you don't see many Teslas on the road in Wyoming. But enough pass through that two ended up in a wrecking yard owned by a friend of someone I met at breakfast.

One apparently suffered a typical collision, but the other ended up there due to more unusual circumstances. The owner was changing a tire when the jack slipped and pierced the battery pack. I've read that this can short the batteries and start a fire, which luckily didn't happen in this case. However, damage to the battery pack was severe enough to require replacement. With Tesla battery pack prices skyrocketing past $10K, the insurance company totaled the car and sent it to the wrecking yard. So far, the wrecking yard owner hasn't found buyers for anything from his wrecked Tesla collection.

More documentation of the rational of this being a "choice" and should never, ever, ever, be a "requirement" (AKA Washington State 2030).

Washington State Adopts Nation’s Earliest ICE-Phaseout Target

The 2030 target, aimed at phasing out the sale, purchase or registration of new cars powered by gasoline or diesel engines, is the nation’s earliest – coming five years ahead of 2035 deadlines established by California, New York and Massachusetts.

Stop telling us what to do and when.  Let the free market do its job.   

https://www.wardsauto.com/industry-news/washington-state-adopts-nation-s-earliest-ice-phaseout-target

[hubcapsc]

With Tesla battery pack prices skyrocketing past $10K, the insurance company totaled the car and sent it to the wrecking yard. So far, the wrecking yard owner hasn't found buyers for anything from his wrecked Tesla collection.

That's weird. The cheapest Teslas cost $40,000.00 plus... did you see this totaled $40,000.00 car that
merely needed a $10,000.00 battery?

https://www.makeuseof.com/how-much-cost-replace-tesla-battery/

Here's a whole bunch of crashed Teslas, some of which people are bidding serious money on.
None, in the couple of pages I scrolled through, are on here because the battery is bad.

https://www.copart.com/vehicle-search-make/tesla

-Mike

[hubcapsc]

Washington State Adopts Nation’s Earliest ICE-Phaseout Target

Stop telling us what to do and when.

Stop telling the people in Washington how to run their politics.

-Mike

[carolinarider09]

Stop telling the people in Washington how to run their politics.

-Mike

It has been my observation that this still remains a country where freedom of speech is a significant part of the freedoms we as citizens have. 

I did not tell the people in Washington how to run their politics.  My response was to the notion that any government that operates under the auspices of the United States Constitution and tells you, by law, what kind of coat you must have, or what kind of HVAC system you must have, or how your vehicle must be powered, or etc. etc is not following that document.

And the fact that the first amendment to the United States Constitution states as follows:

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


Means that I am free to say that.  And you are free to make a single sentence response. 

Again, just for the record and something I did not know:

The statement "Them is fighting words" came to mind and I found this associated with the First Amendment.

In R.A.V. v. City of St. Paul (1992), the Supreme Court found that the "First Amendment prevents government from punishing speech and expressive conduct because it disapproves of the ideas expressed." Even if the words are considered to be fighting words, the First Amendment will still protect the speech if the speech restriction is based on viewpoint discrimination.

Just in case you'll wondered about "Fighting Words".

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fighting_words