progressive insurance rate increase

[cookiedough]

got my renewal due tomorrow and went up 15% across the board on my 5 vehicles.  I called asking why and all lady said was 'in my region' had an across the board rate increase of around that amount.

I called around and Allstate insurance is cheaper by 100 bucks every 6 months on autos, but ONLY if I insure my home with them get multi policy discount and quoted me rip off extremely high home rate of 300 bucks more than what I currently pay for home insurance, so no savings there.   

I wonder if my 5 cycle insurance will follow suit come next year 2023 when in April that comes due as well?  If so,  I might have to part with 2 of the 5 cycles.   

I texted both my kids age 21 and 24 telling them since they now have decent jobs and fairly secure,  time to start paying us back for auto insurance (and one kid 2 cycle insurance) and more so darn cell phone bills about 50 each per month we also paying for them.       Yes, we have more saved up than both of them, but time to tighten the belt since I know both of them go out to eat/drink and blow money 20x's more than I ever will or did in my youth or currently present.

[da prez]

If state farm is in your area , check with them. I had progressive and got a better deal for more coverage.

                                       da prez

[..]

I dropped GEICO for car insurance when I got the stupid response "in your area.

They don't deserve my business for a crap response like that.

As for bikes try Dairyland or Markel.

[derek533]

Ah insurance and in particular, ratemaking and underwriting; my field of expertise having been in the industry since 96.  

Here's the thing, the vast majority of an insurance company's profits, are made from investments not premiums.  Fact of the matter is, most insurance companies are run at a net underwriting loss meaning we pay out more in claims than we take in, in premiums.  Actually having an underwriting profit meaning taking in more than paying out is pretty rare.  Investments are the only thing that save our butts when it comes time to pay the piper.  Our profits all stem from taking the premium you pay, and investing it until it's needed to pay claims.  When a claim occurs, we take the money out of the investment and put it in a "loss reserve" where it's basically just in a holding pattern until we cut the check to you or whomever.  Not to get too into the weeds, but when we have to take that money out of the investment and put it in a loss reserve, from an accounting standpoint, that does all kinds of funky things to our statement of income and balance sheet which are heavily regulated btw, by the state insurance commission.  When loss reserves are too high meaning we've taken too much out of our investments anticipating all these claim payments say after a hurricane, tornado, winter storm, etc., that's money that is no longer making us investment returns (profits) therefore, our balance sheets and income statements reflect this.  Because of our regulations, we have to show that we can meet our obligations (called capacity in the insurance world) and that might mean raising your rates to be able to comply with regulators and the financial requirements that are placed on us.  Converseley, next year when the loss reserves may be substantially lower, then it gives the appearance on the financial statements, that we are charging too much so we have to reduce rates.

Now take that information and add it into the current news cycle of rapid inflation, lower consumer confidence, and the markets are all reeling right now.  Adding to that are increased costs of crash parts, labor, materials, paint, heck, everything is higher.  So, take all these factors into account along with actuarial statistics and that is how we set our rates.  

That's why your rates are going up.  Everyone's are and while some may say, mine aren't, just wait, maybe not this renewal or next, but eventually they will rise too and by that time, the other company's will fall.  It's all ebb and flow and cyclical.  The money you might save by moving all of your policies this year, will be made up in the future at some point while the company you are with presently, might be lower.  

Ideally when it comes time for shopping insurance, find a company that isn't the highest (obviously) but not the lowest either.  Those extreme high and low priced companies are more likely to have wild swings in their premiums compared to some companies who are very steady and may only take a 1% increase one year and perhaps a 2% decrease the following year.  Also, with a big national company like State Farm, Farmers, Allstate, Geico, Progressive, etc., they are better at predicting and having the proper loss reserves and accounting to where they don't have to do massive rate hikes or decreases but rather, smaller incremental adjustments.  They do make mistakes the same as everyone else though, it's just not quite as often. 

Hope that's not too detailed of an explanation, but the bottom line is make sure it isn't too big of a hassle to be changing companies all the time.  Not saying to just accept crappy rates either, just make sure the juice is worth the squeeze is all I'm saying.  

[GWS]

Thanks for the info. I understand the insurance business better. And now I understand why you have a Valkyrie. If you sit in an office everyday staring at all those numbers endlessly floating across your computer screen, you deserve a Phat Girl waiting for you in the parking lot at 5 p.m.!

[cookiedough]

If state farm is in your area , check with them. I had progressive and got a better deal for more coverage.

                                       da prez

Yep,  did State Farm today and 25 bucks more than Progressive, but comparable to new rate increase of Progressive.   Much like Allstate,  Kicker yet again is HOME policy is tied to it cheaper auto insurance rates and yet still near 300 bucks more in home insurance vs. what I am paying now.

shockingly both Allstate and State Farm for my 5 cycles is more than double the rates as Progressive is now.  I sure hope come next April 2023 Progressive does not follow suit being near Allstate/State Farm.  If so,  must sell 1 Valk and 1 scooter next year not worth cost justification to keep all since not a high mileage rider

IMO,  insurance costs are a crock of B.S..  Make the ones who use it pay much more than me.  I have ONLY used ONE comprehensive claim ONCE in my entire life of 35 years of driving on my former truck 4 years ago winged a deer, unavoidable.  No tickets, etc. clean record. 

Get this,  I called Allstate (same office as my ex neighbor) and my ex neighbor built new house over 1 year ago in same area but different bigger town, and his 2500 sq. ft home vs. my 1104 sq. ft home built in 1993, his insured 450K, mine 200K,  quote was 200 bucks cheaper than my small ranch home.  Allstate told me NEW homes get a huge discount 1st three years then slowly discount goes away.  Give me a break:  over double square footage, over 2x's assessed value, in more crime ridden larger city, and he saves over 200 bucks per year on home insurance vs. me?   Something stinks there for sure.   And yet I know he has filed over 4 insurance claims on his vehicles past 10 years and for sure 1 home insurance claim on his new home already. 

Oh yah,  Progressive rating of vehicles is wacked as well.  My 2014 hyundai sonata basic sedan TONS on the road, easily repairable, parts readily available, worth say 8K with 100K miles on it costs me MORE insurance cost than my near new 2021 Toyota Tundra..  Yet again,  NO reasonable explanation at all on that one.  ONLY thing new tundra has is 'safety sense' which sonata does not have but to be honest I only use the adaptive cruise control is all on the tundra, disabling the rest of the safety garbage that beeps at me. 

I guess try the other 2 places suggested, cannot hurt, although cycle is dirt cheap with Progressive, is the autos that went up in rates.  I have yet to find a home and auto insurance carrier reasonable in price considering I know I have probably top 10% of all of us on this board the smallest and most basic 1104 sq. ft ranch home. 

Speaking of homes:   What do you all think is reasonable per dollar in square footage of home for replacement cost?  You all think 200 bucks per sq. ft. replacement cost for basic ranch home reasonable?  That would be 220K for insured amount of my home.  I know if sold my home never get over 200K more like 190K is all in my area.  In Madison WI nearby bigger fancier city, my house would be a 300K home though.    I think the insurance companies I am calling, all in Madison WI,  are basing their rating on Madison area which I am not and told them all that living in much cheaper community 35 miles south.  They do not get that at all.

[Jack B]

If state farm is in your area , check with them. I had progressive and got a better deal for more coverage.

                                       da prez

What’s nice about State Farm is in the winter you can drop your coverage to just comp. Why pay for coverage you’re not using.
Last time I checked a lot of companies will not let you do that.

[Jess from VA]

Derek, I appreciate the insurance insight.

How about a bit more about the differences between the States.... even with the same companies.

I've been saying for a long time that a national (VRCC) discussion on best/cheapest insurance companies is not that helpful, because each state (and their insurance commissions) vary so much; and that Company A may be very good and competitive in your state, but not in another.  Is this true?

[Rams]

I texted both my kids age 21 and 24 telling them since they now have decent jobs and fairly secure, time to start paying us back for auto insurance (and one kid 2 cycle insurance) and more so darn cell phone bills about 50 each per month we also paying for them.      Yes, we have more saved up than both of them, but time to tighten the belt since I know both of them go out to eat/drink and blow money 20x's more than I ever will or did in my youth or currently present.

People make their own decisions and that's fine but, if you're still paying for your adult offspring's insurance and cell phones, who is to blame?   Don't get me wrong, both my offspring know Dad and Mom aren't going to let them fall through the cracks but, when they moved out, they were on their own.   We have helped them from time to time but, as I told both my kids, we're not planning on leaving either of them any inheritance, they get whatever is left when we're gone.     (Which means all assests, bank accounts, 401K, bikes, trikes, tractor with implements, house, real property, all the left over fuel cans and fuel contained therein and any bills.)    

Rams

[derek533]

Derek, I appreciate the insurance insight.

How about a bit more about the differences between the States.... even with the same companies.

I've been saying for a long time that a national (VRCC) discussion on best/cheapest insurance companies is not that helpful, because each state (and their insurance commissions) vary so much; and that Company A may be very good and competitive in your state, but not in another.  Is this true?

Yes, it's very true.  Several factors go into ratemaking but suffice to say, location is a big factor based on several things; weather, crime, propensity for civil proceedings, etc.   Here in Oklahoma, we are on the higher end of the spectrum when it comes to rates.  Our homeowner rates are higher because obviously this is an area that is known for weather related events.  Our auto rates are higher too because we used to have a state legislature that was made up of injury lawyers (not kidding) and you can imagine the good ole boy system and how it was set up.  Arkansas conversely, has some of the cheapest rates in the nation despite having a similar weather related risks.  Their auto rates are considerably less as well.  

Insurance companies aren't just going to take it in on the chin getting pummeled year after year by high claims counts, lawsuits, and roofers/contractors that game the system along with an insurance commission that won't approve rate increases for fear of the political capital lost.  There are roofers in Florida (and everywhere for that matter) who will argue they can't repair a roof with a couple of missing tabs/shingles and the whole thing must be replaced.  Well that $250 repair just became a $20k roof replacement and insurance companies have had enough and are pulling out in droves.  You can bet that if someone wasn't insured, that roofing contractor would have no problem repairing the roof yet the second they find out insurance is present, suddenly it's not repairable.  Because of these roofers and lawyers, Florida is experiencing a mass exodus of insurance companies as those companies have decided that it's just not worth it.  

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying either as some insurance companies deserve 100% to be sued for acting in bad faith towards an insured or claimant and not every insurance company does things ethically.  

But the short answer is yes, it varies wildly from state to state and a certain company might be great on rates in Arkansas but terribly expensive in Colorado.  There's just too many factors at play to try and compare rates nationally even within the same insurance company. 

[Serk]

Just saying, after Progressive did me VERY right twice in the last year, it'd take more than a marginal increase in premiums for me to ditch 'em....

I hope you NEVER need to USE the insurance you buy, and I hope if you DO need to use it whoever you're with treats you close to as fairly as Progressive did me.....

[Jess from VA]

I've also always said, insurance is like gambling.

You are placing a bet on the table that either something bad will happen to you (randomly), or that you will screw up badly.  Except with insurance, you hope like hell you lose every single bet.

Some of these bets are even required by law (auto/bike).  Just like morticians, there's nothing like having the G ensure you stay in business.  Try burying grandma in your back yard.

Others by common sense (homeowners).

I've never carried anything but minimal liability and uninsured motorists on every bike I've owned, even a brand new one (I'm a confident and careful rider, and my bikes won't be stolen).  And I've never been sorry.  The biggest liability risk to a bike rider is to his passenger, and I don't carry any.  If you maim your spouse through negligence, that lawsuit would be a collusive one against your own company.  You rarely read about a bike hitting a bus and injuring all the passengers.

On cars (which fund a large portion of tort lawyers existence), I carry full coverage and high liability limits.  I'm just as confidant a driver as a rider, and haven't had an at fault accident for 50 years, but I know tort lawyers well enough to insure against them. 

You risk everything you own every time you climb in your car, but not your bike (but try to avoid running down pedestrians). 

[cookiedough]

Just saying, after Progressive did me VERY right twice in the last year, it'd take more than a marginal increase in premiums for me to ditch 'em....

I hope you NEVER need to USE the insurance you buy, and I hope if you DO need to use it whoever you're with treats you close to as fairly as Progressive did me.....

agree, but IMO a 15% rate increase on 5 vehicles is not 'marginal'.  However,  considering only if I do the expensive HOME with Allstate or State Farm saving about 100 bucks per 6 months on AUTO ONLY,  Progressive is still in line with the rest.  

I blame the wife on allowing both kids in their early 20's to get away with cell phone bill mthly and car insurance every 6 months.  I tell them to pay and NO answer from them.  One thing for sure is age 25 and on their own.  Both have jobs making as much or more than I am.  I was just, and still am,  super thrifty in spending money all my life being a firm believer in if you do not have the dough, do not buy it.  I was age 23 having 20K savings to put down on my house in the early 90's.  Not bragging, just stating not many kids nowadays have that much savings age 23, although my age 21 kid saved up 10K to put downpymt on his 160K 30 year mortgage on old house he just bought.

agree as well, location by city and state vary widely with insurance companies.  My say 300 every 6 months for auto insurance may seem dirt cheap to someone living in NY or CA.   Then again,  most people in NY or CA make 2-3x's my salary also. 

[..]

Just saying, after Progressive did me VERY right twice in the last year, it'd take more than a marginal increase in premiums for me to ditch 'em....

I hope you NEVER need to USE the insurance you buy, and I hope if you DO need to use it whoever you're with treats you close to as fairly as Progressive did me.....

agree, but IMO a 15% rate increase on 5 vehicles is not 'marginal'.  However,  considering only if I do the expensive HOME with Allstate or State Farm saving about 100 bucks per 6 months on AUTO ONLY,  Progressive is still in line with the rest.  

I blame the wife on allowing both kids in their early 20's to get away with cell phone bill mthly and car insurance every 6 months.  I tell them to pay and NO answer from them.  One thing for sure is age 25 and on their own.  Both have jobs making as much or more than I am.  I was just, and still am,  super thrifty in spending money all my life being a firm believer in if you do not have the dough, do not buy it.  I was age 23 having 20K savings to put down on my house in the early 90's.  Not bragging, just stating not many kids nowadays have that much savings age 23, although my age 21 kid saved up 10K to put downpymt on his 160K 30 year mortgage on old house he just bought.

agree as well, location by city and state vary widely with insurance companies.  My say 300 every 6 months for auto insurance may seem dirt cheap to someone living in NY or CA.   Then again,  most people in NY or CA make 2-3x's my salary also. 

Don't pay for the cell phone. They'll quickly fix it when the phone doesn't work 

[F6Dave]

I just got my bill for MC insurance with Allstate. While my car and homeowner premiums increased a lot, full coverage for 4 bikes dropped from $341 to $332 per year. That was a huge surprise.

[Jess from VA]

I just got my bill for MC insurance with Allstate. While my car and homeowner premiums increased a lot, full coverage for 4 bikes dropped from $341 to $332 per year. That was a huge surprise.

When 9$ is a huge surprise, you know things are twisted.    

FWIW, both my homeowners and truck went up a lot (and no claims for life), but the bikes were about the same.  (and different companies too)

[cookiedough]

I just got my bill for MC insurance with Allstate. While my car and homeowner premiums increased a lot, full coverage for 4 bikes dropped from $341 to $332 per year. That was a huge surprise.

I find that interesting guess depends on state living in.  I got Allstate quote for 5 cycles and was over 500 bucks am paying around 332 as well for 5 cycles with Progressive being good deal full coverage.  Is the AUTOS that went up 15% for 5 vehicles with Progressive which is BS. 

[Bighead]

Try Foremost. It is in your home state. They cut my bike insurance in half with better coverage. Gotta change companies every couple of yrs to get the better rates.

[cookiedough]

Try Foremost. It is in your home state. They cut my bike insurance in half with better coverage. Gotta change companies every couple of yrs to get the better rates.

unfortunately I have found that is the case more often than not.   Is BS NO loyalty whatsoever anymore and when they raise the rates to where you are not comfortable and switch,  all they say is oh well, see yah later not caring.    Why should we be loyal to any insurance company if they not loyal to us as well?

I will call Foremost and see if they do home and autos.  Cycle insurance is dirt cheap with Progressive cheaper by far than so far State Farm and Allstate.

[Bighead]

Try an independent agent that writes for many companies they can get you a better rate than you going at it on your own.

[cookiedough]

Try an independent agent that writes for many companies they can get you a better rate than you going at it on your own.

yah,  I called a few as well independent agents they all came back Progressive cheapest for autos.   I do not think they can write for larger companies though like Allstate and State Farm, need an agent for that company to go with them, I think????   

I wrote my Progressive policy with an independent agent dealing with a few other companies, but he is sort of a jerk just telling me NONE cheaper than Progressive.  He is not very friendly when I told him when I winged a deer 4 years ago that was not happy with a 14% rate increase across all 5 vehicles for a 2-3K comprehensive claim NOT my fault as well as this time 15% rate increase for NO good reason other than had a rate increase across the board in my area.    I do know Allstate and State Farm have had rate DECREASES in my area since prior years checking quotes, they were much higher, now in-line with Progressive almost.