Saddlebag lock cylinders

[Dustifon]

I have an 03 standard and I just installed some saddlebags from an interstate. I’ve read a lot on this forum about being able to rekey pretty easily, but my problem is that my key doesn’t match the lock cylinders on the saddlebags.

I read there are two different types of keys. I don’t know why or when they changed, but my key is incompatible with the saddlebag locks.

Is it possible to obtain lock cylinders that match the key way and have them swapped in? Has anyone done that?

Thanks

[Jims99]

I know Partzilla still has them.

[Valker]

They’re not too hard to remove and any local locksmith can rekey the locks. Easy to have them use the ignition key.

[Dustifon]

Right. I can remove the cylinders but I think since it’s a B type cylinder and I have an A type key they won’t work? I’ll just bring the cylinders and my key to the locksmith and see if they can do anything.

I read in this forum they can be rekeyed to my original key IF my key will fit into the cylinder. It does not. Maybe there’s some locksmithing magic I don’t know about that will make em compatible. I just want to worry about one key on my motorcycle ring, but having two isn’t a big deal.

I don’t like putting any weight on the ignition cylinder. My last bike was a Magna and the ignition cylinder was so worn I could turn it on with a butter knife, and the key would slide right out of the ignition with the bike on  and aesthetically I just like having one key. Simple. Elegant, even.

[RonW]

Apparently Interstates used Type X style keys. While Standard/Tourers uses Type Y keys including the saddlebags that came from a Tourer. I'm unclear ..... you bought saddlebags without keys? If so, can you ask the seller for the key code on the ignition key or fuel tank of the bike that the saddlebags came from.





You might try getting new saddlebag cylinder locks from the Interstate oem page. There, you *might* be able to specify the proper key code. The saddlebag page does not display a separate key for the lock. But I can't imagine them selling the lock without knowing the key code. I dunno if the key code is stamped on the saddlebag lock like other keyed items. The gist is you then could specify the key code on your Interstate allowing you to use a single key. Barring that, perhaps order a dozen key cylinders and return those that your Interstate key didn't fit.





Just for conversation, motorbike and car tumblers (plugs) use flat plates instead of pins.




BMW replacement set for ignition keys. Probably not available for Valks.




Patio door keys as well as many other type locks use flat plates instead of pins.

[Dustifon]

Apparently Interstates used Type X style keys. While Standard/Tourers uses Type Y keys including the saddlebags that came from a Tourer. I'm unclear ..... you bought saddlebags without keys? If so, can you ask the seller for the key code on the ignition key or fuel tank of the bike that the saddlebags came from.





You might try getting new saddlebag cylinder locks from the Interstate oem page. There, you *might* be able to specify the proper key code. The saddlebag page does not display a separate key for the lock. But I can't imagine them selling the lock without knowing the key code. I dunno if the key code is stamped on the saddlebag lock like other keyed items. The gist is you then could specify the key code on your Interstate allowing you to use a single key. Barring that, perhaps order a dozen key cylinders and return those that your Interstate key didn't fit.





Just for conversation, motorbike and car tumblers (plugs) use flat plates instead of pins.




BMW replacement set for ignition keys. Probably not available for Valks.




Patio door keys as well as many other type locks use flat plates instead of pins.

This is great info.

For clarification, I have a standard. I installed saddlebags from an interstate. So the issue is I cannot have the interstate saddlebag cylinders rekeyed to fit my standard key. You highlighted the reason right there in the first part of your post.

If standard/tourer keying were the same, I SHOULD be able to buy a set of cylinders from a tourer and have them rekeyed and swapped in. HOWEVER, I checked every year and submodel of both the interstate and tourer on partzilla- and each one has the same part number listed for the cylinder: 81171-MT3-003. I practically have it memorized.

For craps and gigs I checked other Honda models too. St1100, shadow tourer, all seem to have the same part number for the saddlebag cylinders.

Buying a dozen and sending back the ones that don’t fit isn’t a bad idea. However, if what you say is true regarding the uniformity of Keys across models, then I’d be wasting my time/money on shipping.  I’m not against buying a plate set and testing my patience by giving rekeying the cylinders a whirl. I just need the materials to start with.

I considered buying a set of standard locks off of eBay and taking the cylinders out to shove in the bags but I was informed they are different and wouldn’t be compatible. I wonder if anyone has any experience with that.

Seems the only viable option is to swap all of the locks on the bike for a complete set of interstate locks- with the fork lock being the biggest pain in the . If it comes to that I think I’ll just carry two keys

[..]

My 1800 came with bags and no keys.

Took the bags to a locksmith to find each one needed it's own special key. 

I carry the keys with me and have extras at home.

[Bagger John - #3785]

GL1100, GL1200, GL1500, Shadow ACE and numerous other Honda models all used this style tumbler in their locks. I've bought a bunch of cores for A/B keys and have swapped the guts across bikes whenever needed.

Swap meets are your friend. You can get this sort of thing very cheaply if you dig through parts bins.

Take your bike's key with you to test entry. You can re-key after you buy.

[Willow]

It's an interesting discussion with some good suggestions but someone got off on a very erroneous trail.

I'm not sure who got the idea that the key type is consistent within a model.  They're not.  All models of the classic Valkyrie use both styles.

[Bagger John - #3785]

I'm not sure who got the idea that the key type is consistent within a model.  They're not.  All models of the classic Valkyrie use both styles.

Correct.

I had 5 different Valks in the garage at one time. Three were A key type and two, B key. And this didn't propagate across models. One I/S used an A; the other a B.

Etc.

[Avanti]

Are the keys actually called A or B? And if so which is A and which is B?

[RonW]

"..... regarding the uniformity of Keys across models, then I’d be wasting my time/money on shipping.  I’m not against buying a plate set and testing my patience by giving rekeying the cylinders a whirl. I just need the materials to start with."


True dat. However buying generic key cylinders is okay if it's designed for a key with a fillet orientation that fits the Standard/Tourer locks. Be aware though you have to know the way to extract the cylinder. My spare cylinder (below) was from an ignition switch which was accessible from the back end. Otherwise you gotta stick a pick in the slot to depress the *retainer plate* to release the cylinder or let a locksmith do it.

I'm not sure buying a plate set is a workable option unless you know the specific plate type or style. Just like pins in a house lock which have different diameter pins, plates are different sizes too. A locksmith might have them in his spare parts bin.

Having said that, this is what I'd do providing (A) the generic key cylinder has the Standard/Tourer fillet orientation, and (B) you're able to pull the cylinder from the lock. I would install only one flat plate leaving the rest of the slots empty. Out of five flat plates, and five valleys on your key profile, one of the plates will match up with one of the valleys on your key profile. But that's enough to keep the saddlebag lids locked. A single plate protruding above the 'sheer line' is enough to prevent the cylinder from turning.

If you pull the cylinders from the locks, wrap a cloth etc around the plates to keep them from falling out and getting lost permanently. The tiny coil springs are just as unfindable.

[RonW]

Btw, according to the Internet. The correct terminology for the cylinder is the *plug* as the cylinder is comprised of the plug and the lock's body.

[Willow]

... However buying generic key cylinders is okay if it's designed for a key with a fillet orientation that fits the Standard/Tourer locks.
... 

Once again the two styles of keys are used in all three models.  There is no Standard/Tourer fillet orientation or Interstate fillet orientation.

[RonW]

"Once again the two styles of keys are used in all three models.  There is no Standard/Tourer fillet orientation or Interstate fillet orientation."


Understood. However, Dustifon's Interstate saddlebags key has the reverse fillet of his Standard's key. This is by virtue that the Standard's key won't even go in the Interstate saddlebags key slot. Hypothetically if he buys a generic plug and the Standard's key fits the plug then they're both Type X. which he then can transplant to the Interstate saddlebags and it's then possible for Dustifon to use a single key instead of two keys, so on.

On the oem parts page, generic key plugs are assigned the same P/N regardless of the Honda bike line or sub-model. So, they're either all the correct fillet orientation. or mirror images and all of them the wrong fillet orientation for Dustifon's purposes.

True, the generic plug's P/N could be a blanket label with Type A and Type B tossed in the same bag. However, on occasions when keys are sold separately, the buyer is prompted to specify whether he's after Type 1 or Type 2 key blanks. (Item 6 on Side Cover Page).  

It would have been ideal if just by chance the Interstate saddlebags keys used the same fillet orientation as Dustifon Standard's key whether that's Type A or Type B. This is possible since as you say both Type A and Type B are used randomly, vrs. Type A being reserved for Tourers while Type B is used exclusively for Interstates instead of a mixed bag. As things stand, Dustifon has to gamble that the generic plug has the same fillet orientation as his Standard's key. 50-50, odds.

[Avanti]

My Interstate has a Type 2 key, fillet on the bottom and stamped C22.


2000 HONDA GL1500CT AC
KEY, BLANK (TYPE 2) (KEY NO. CXX / DXX)
35122-MR1-770

KEY, BLANK (TYPE2) (KEY NO. CXX / DXX)
35122-GZ5-003


Two different part numbers!

[RonW]

Just for conversation. Instead of pin tumblers motorbike locks uses flat plates. The rectangular cutouts in the plates are different lengths with which the profile of the key matches up. A key has 5 valleys (notches) and a lock has 5 plates. You only need one plate to match up with a valley on the key to lock the saddlebags. 5 valleys x 5 plates gives you a possible 25 combinations for the single match-up. Two match-ups would be even better. 5 for 5 is possible but it's likely the plates won't be in the same order as your existing key. For the plates that don't match up with any of the key's 5 valleys, leave the slots empty. Some of the plates are dummies anyway. They match an uncut profile.





In the locked position, the flat plate protrudes above the sheer line.




A tiny coil spring keeps the plate in the raised position.




When the key depresses the plate level with the sheer line, the key can now turn the plug in its cylinder, or unlock the saddlebags.




An incorrect key can depress the plate down too much pass the bottom sheer line.




I haven't a clue whether the key cylinders sold on Oem parts websites are for Type 1 or Type 2 keys. Dustifon stated that P/N 81171-MT3-003 is used for all replacement cylinders regardless of the Honda bike. So there's a 50-50 odds that the cylinders are Type 1 and a 50-50 odds that the cylinders are Type 2 whichever the type that matches your key profile. It's better if Type 1 and Type 2 are mixed up despite the common P/N. This leaves open the possibility of finding the correct type plug if you order a dozen since some of them would be Type 1 and some of them would be Type 2.

[RonW]

Just for conversation, Part II.

If you knew where to look for these flat plates you probably could buy a hundred for a dollar.




Again, in the locked position, the top of the plate protrudes above the sheer line preventing the plug from rotating in its cylinder.  Text below: an option of rekeying.




If your existing key doesn't push the plate down far enough so it clears the sheer line .....




..... you could file down the top edge of the plate which is way simpler than finding the correct plates on the internet.




Locked position with the key out. As long as there's enough of a stub protruding above the sheer line, it's enough to keep the plug from rotating.




If the key pushes the plate too far down that it protrudes below the bottom sheer line .....




..... you could file down the bottom edge of the plate. Or, simply leave the slot empty.

[gordonv]

I have an e scooter, with a battery locked to the scoot, and after picking the lock, removing the cylinder, I found which plates work with the key I had, and only used 3 of the 5 plates.

Remove them all, and anything will spin the lock closed/open.

Also, our keys are double cut, each side, but only uses on side for the plates to move. You can have 2 different key cuts, one on one side, and one on the other.

[RonW]

"Remove them all [all of the plates], and anything will spin the lock closed/open."


That'll work as long as there's enough friction to keep the key slot in the vertical position. I guess the latch would provide enough friction. How would anybody know that a key isn't needed.

[Dustifon]

I bought a pack of appropriate keys blanks, maybe I’ll try my hand at filing one myself  . It’s a really good point that I only need one plate to be lined up- maybe two for peace of mind.

I’ve pulled the “plug” a few times, keeping the blank key in the slot helps when removing the plug so the plates don’t pop out. It also helps when reinserting the plug into the cylinder assembly.

I didn’t think to check if the blank itself would line one or two plates up- how easy would that be? I’d just keep the plates that need to be pushed the most to be flush with the plug. I’ll look into this and post some pictures.

Thanks for the discussion this has turned a headache into a fun project