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Author Topic: question about drive shaft  (Read 1516 times)
rws
Member
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Posts: 104


1997 Valkyrie Tourer

North Dakota


« on: April 30, 2023, 08:16:58 AM »

When the swing arm pivots does the drive shaft move much on any of the splines? And if so which splines?  ie in the pinion cup, shaft to u-joint or u-joint to transmission output shaft.

If I had to guess I'd say in the shaft to u-joint splines as a spring appears as it would keep the shaft pushed into pinion cup and u-joint into transmission output shaft.  But what do I know  Cheesy

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« Last Edit: April 30, 2023, 08:28:39 AM by rws » Logged

Original VRCC Member Number 697
1997 Honda Valkyrie Tourer - 2019 Honda CRF450L - 2021 Honda Rebel 1100 DCT
sandy
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Posts: 5376


Mesa, AZ.


« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2023, 08:41:21 AM »

That’s correct.
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98valk
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Posts: 13440


South Jersey


« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2023, 10:04:13 AM »

https://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,116696.40.html

So my conclusion is to make sure the U-Joint splines are correctly lubricated, to prevent the drive shaft to final drive splines aka spline coupling (SC) from wearing out. I also installed a new driveshaft to spline cup seal every other tire change.

The SC in a perfect application would have zero forward/rearward movement and would be submerged in oil which would result in zero wear and fretting. Fretting is a type of corrosion which gives that rust powder look. Is not from water intrusion. In some applications they actually glue the splines together to stop movement.

Honda provided the locking spring clip on the SC end of the drive shaft to help reduce movement of the SC, but it is still not a solid zero movement connection. So this is where the lubricated U-joint splines come into effect, thereby doing all of the movement, to reduce or actually eliminate any SC movement.

In a few of the links I provide it is stated that the SC splines should be hardened to greatly reduce wear.  Did Honda do this to the parts?

In my case I inadvertently mixed greases with different bases for the u-joint splines, by re-greasing and not cleaning off the old grease.
My fault, at the time, I didn't realize they had different bases. So what happened the greases started to dry out and not provide the easy sliding movement as needed and the SC failed in 17k miles.

For re-installing the U-Joint boot I coated the inside lips with silicone grease and it pops on with zero problems. suggest not to use a silicone spray which has petroleum products in it and other things which could degrade the boot material.

So to bring this all together, proper lubrication of the u-joint splines is extremely important and should be done every tire change to protect the SC. 
This time I used moly bearing chassis grease for the U-Joint for even more friction reduction and easier sliding.

For the SC I mixed TS-70 moly paste with some high temp grease so there would be about a 50/50 moly to grease ratio as recommended by the Dan Foss pdf which is a much higher percent of moly than the 3% moly grease the Honda manual calls for.

The following documents have some very good info about SCs and lubrication requirements.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/693/fretting-wear

https://www.powertransmission.com/issues/0214/spline-couplings.pdf

https://assets.danfoss.com/documents/76142/AI152986482538en-000304.pdf

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=423609

https://gearsolutions.com/departments/tooth-tips-a-brief-overview-of-splines/

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=383504
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1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C  10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp

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RonW
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Posts: 1867

Newport Beach


« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2023, 02:56:30 AM »

I read over the Dan Foss data sheet and found these worth repeating.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"when not running in flooded oil or if splashed oil is not possible
applying a lubricant to the splined joint reduces friction and
restricts the presence of oxygen."


Article applies to the Valk's splines since the Valk's splines are not flooded in oil or splashed with oil.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"A recommended spline lubricant is a 50/50
compound of a high temperature grease and
a molybdenum disulphide powder."


The recommendation above is for molybdenum disulphide powder, moly in powder form. Whereas mixing greases isn't always the safest thing unless it's known that their base materials won't interact negatively with each other. Also the recommended 50 percent portion of moly powder sounds kind high.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"This lubricant [spline grease] is not soluble in oil and
should be used accordingly."


Spline grease is "Not soluble in oil"? Wouldn't want to toss that factoid in a pinion cup debate, specifically pumpkin oil lubricating the pinion splines. Albeit if spline grease is not soluble in oil, any pumpkin oil seeping into the pinion cup can't do harm to the spline grease. I'm unclear by what's meant by 'not soluble in oil." Does hypoid oil dissolve away the spline grease or are they impermeable?

« Last Edit: May 07, 2023, 03:44:35 AM by RonW » Logged

2000 Valkyrie Tourer
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