Why the F-4 Phantom Is Such a Badass Plane

[98valk]

First model airplane I put together as a kid.

https://militaryaircraftblog.com/why-the-f-4-phantom-is-such-a-badass-plane/

The F-4 Phantom was neither pretty nor elegant. But it did its job when so many other aircraft in history couldn’t.

Flying Brick. Lead Sled. Rhino. Double Ugly. If nicknames are destiny, then the F-4 Phantom II fighter was cursed at birth.

Even its official name was ironic. “Phantom” evokes an image of stealth and subtlety, a supernatural nemesis that strikes without warning. But the F-4 was anything but stealthy or subtle; it was a big fighter that muscled its way through combat.

Along the way, it became one of the most influential aircraft in history.

[scooperhsd]

There were over 5000 F-4 Phantoms built over its lifetime. Lots of nations used it.

[old2soon]

    Other than those smoking Huge J79s the Phantom uses/used good all around bird!  From those slab sides to the negative diehedral horizontal stabilizer there was NO DOUBT what aircraft you were looking at. I believe the figure wikipedia use was 5195 built. RIDE SAFE.

[Rams]

    Other than those smoking Huge J79s the Phantom uses/used good all around bird!  From those slab sides to the negative diehedral horizontal stabilizer there was NO DOUBT what aircraft you were looking at. I believe the figure wikipedia use was 5195 built. RIDE SAFE.

A plane to fill a needed mission at the time and it filled that mission very well.
Although compared to today's fighters, it wouldn't have a chance in a dog fight. 

Rams

[Valkorado]

    Other than those smoking Huge J79s the Phantom uses/used good all around bird!  From those slab sides to the negative diehedral horizontal stabilizer there was NO DOUBT what aircraft you were looking at. I believe the figure wikipedia use was 5195 built. RIDE SAFE.

A plane to fill a needed mission at the time and it filled that mission very well.
Although compared to today's fighters, it wouldn't have a chance in a dog fight. 

Rams

This is why I'm still partial to the A-10 Warthog.  Granted they're different aircraft designed for different missions and newer technologies like drones have entered the battlefield, but those A-10s could still put a trembling fear into an enemy tank platoon!

Just checked.  It sounds like the USAF plans to keep the Warthog in service until 2040.  Keep the old parts working.   

[RP#62]

I've always like the Phantom.  It doesn't look that big until you get it in the hangar and then you realize what a monster it is.

-RP

[carolinarider09]

Just checked.  It sounds like the USAF plans to keep the Warthog in service until 2040.  Keep the old parts working.   

 

[98valk]

I've always like the Phantom.  It doesn't look that big until you get it in the hangar and then you realize what a monster it is.

-RP

muscle and not fat like our Valkyries

By any name, the Phantom was a beast compared to its contemporaries. Most fighters have one seat, but the F-4 had two: a pilot in front, and a radar and weapons officer in back. A fully loaded F-4 weighed 28 tons: France’s Mirage III weighed 14 tons, while the Soviet MiG-21 was only 10 tons. At 63 feet long, the F-4 was 10 feet longer than the other two planes.

Yet the Phantom was muscle, not fat. Mounted on a rugged airframe—designed to absorb the impact of carrier landings—were two massive General Electric J79 engines capable of 18,000 pounds of thrust each, or 36,000 pounds combined. The Mirage’s single engine could pump out only 13,000 pounds of thrust, and the MiG-21 could only put out 15,000 pounds (though lighter planes required less powerful engines). Despite its bulk, the F-4 could fly at Mach 2.2 and reach 60,000 feet. Its first flight in May 1958 was soon followed by 16 world records, including a zoom climb to 98,557 feet in 1959 and a speed of 1,606 miles per hour in 1961.

[Rams]

    Other than those smoking Huge J79s the Phantom uses/used good all around bird!  From those slab sides to the negative diehedral horizontal stabilizer there was NO DOUBT what aircraft you were looking at. I believe the figure wikipedia use was 5195 built. RIDE SAFE.

A plane to fill a needed mission at the time and it filled that mission very well.
Although compared to today's fighters, it wouldn't have a chance in a dog fight. 

Rams

This is why I'm still partial to the A-10 Warthog.  Granted they're different aircraft designed for different missions and newer technologies like drones have entered the battlefield, but those A-10s could still put a trembling fear into an enemy tank platoon!

Just checked.  It sounds like the USAF plans to keep the Warthog in service until 2040.  Keep the old parts working.   

I whole heartedly agree on the Warthog being one of the most badass'd ground support birds ever built.  Was never intended to get into air to air combat but, it's still bad ass.   The F4 was used in ground support also.   It was fast but, I would argue that the A10 is a better bird to protect ground troops.   In many cases, the A10 is a better predator than some attack helicopters.  Supposedly, the F35 is going to fill in for the ground support role.   Most of the ground pounders I know still have more confidence in the A10.   That doesn't mean they are qualified to make that judgement but, it's still their opinion.

Rams

[old2soon]

    GIB-guy in back. RIO-radar intercept operator. WIZZO-see the first two. I've seen an F-4 take off out of N A S North Island San Diego get out over the water a piece in Full Afterburners and go danged near vertical and even after losing sight of it in the clouds the NOISE was still there! And that was JUST ONE! According to Google Max Gross take off weigh was 60000 LBS and initial climb rate of 41000 F P M! Any way you slice it Truly Bad AZZ!  I've also heard those J79s were Extremely THIRSTY! RIDE SAFE.

[Rams]

   GIB-guy in back. RIO-radar intercept operator. WIZZO-see the first two. I've seen an F-4 take off out of N A S North Island San Diego get out over the water a piece in Full Afterburners and go danged near vertical and even after losing sight of it in the clouds the NOISE was still there! And that was JUST ONE! According to Google Max Gross take off weigh was 60000 LBS and initial climb rate of 41000 F P M! Any way you slice it Truly Bad AZZ!   I've also heard those J79s were Extremely THIRSTY! RIDE SAFE.

No argument from me on the F4 having more than enough thrust................  

Rams

[Jess from VA]

After getting a long back seat ride in an F-16 B model overseas, I tried like heck to get a back seat ride in an F4 at March AFB (CA Air Guard squadron).  But it was not to be. 

Dean Martin's son (from that squadron) flew his F4 into San Gorgonio mountain shortly before I arrived there from overseas.

[RP#62]

And, it'll fly with the wings folded:

https://sierrahotel.net/blogs/news/my-wings-are-what


-RP

[Rams]

And, it'll fly with the wings folded:

https://sierrahotel.net/blogs/news/my-wings-are-what


-RP

With enough speed, so will my Valkyrie. 

Rams

[TrapperAH1G]

I must say the F4 has a special place in my heart.  Prior to becoming an Army aviator, I was a special ops grunt back in the Vietnam days.  My team was someplace Americans "weren't" and our A**ES were hanging in the wind!  (Look up SOG if you want more info)  Had to get special permission to get air support to us, and I can tell you.....Seeing that squared up front view, the bent wings and that heavy black smoke trail come over the top of a mountain and head right to us.....was the most beautiful sight in my life!  Without them that day, I would not be owning a Valkyrie.

I will also add the A10 is a very special aircraft and should not be retired as long as the groundpounders need support and there are tanks on the battlefield!!!!!  BTW - God Bless every Apache pilot!

[scooperhsd]

While the F-4 was no doubt a plane of its day, there are reasons we aren't flying them anymore. The first dogfight between the F-4 and an F14 showed the Tomcat superior in just about anything.

A10's should be used only when we have secured air dominance, but once that is established - yes they are very good at ground support.

[thedon]

When I was in the air force (74-78) I worked on the F-4. Not mechanically, but I loaded the armament. Also tore apart the nose gun and cleaned it as well.
Thanks for the memories, it was a great jet.
TheDon

[MarkT]

When I was in the air force (74-78) I worked on the F-4. Not mechanically, but I loaded the armament. Also tore apart the nose gun and cleaned it as well.
Thanks for the memories, it was a great jet.
TheDon

I was also a 462, weapons load crew chief.  I thought they didn't have a Vulcan in the fuselage on the F-4, realized the mistake and added it in a pod on a wing pylon.  In fact I saw those pods a few times - though in passing; never worked on the F-4.  We had a few F-4's at Takhli (also Nellis & D-M; I wasn't certified on them) but it was F-111's which I loaded on the flightline there.  When I wasn't working preload in the bomb dump or arm/de-arm EOR.  I understand they were a bear to work on, with low wing, back into the projections underneath which didn't give AT ALL makes for unpleasant work.  TDY out of Nellis, 474 MMS, Linebacker II late 72.  Later SAC, BUFFs at U-Tapao, Arc Light.  Worked on the Vulcan on the F-111 and the A-7.

[thedon]

Mark, I also was a 462 weapons load crew chief an Ramstein, Germany. Later moved to B-52's at Rapid City. There I was on the loading standardization crew. You know, the guys that trained the load crews.
By the way, thank you for your service.

[MarkT]

Yeah I know who you guys were. More like evaluated load crews for standardization, speed and especially safety.  Decertified my crew twice.  The worst was when I walked fast into the back tip of the #3 pylon at Nellis.  Attached to a 47,180# bomber - didn't give AT ALL.  Laid me out unconscious on the cement hanger floor with a gash on my head.  The decert added insult to injury.  That was before we wore hard hats.  Don't know if they added them but they should have.

BTW they still had tailgunners on the BUFFs^* during my tours.  Offered to weapons mechanics.  I think they stopped that about then - decided rear guns were useless as the bombers were getting shot down by SAMs not fighters.  They offered that job to me; don't recall when.  He said "you'll get combat pay."  Not much incentive, frankly.  We had a BUFF return to U-tapao with the tailgunner position below the vertical stab GONE.  Not to mention, the planes that didn't return.  I seem to recall the last configuration had the tailgunner operating the Vulcan cannon from a position with the rest of the crew.  Also it was radar directed.  Before that, it was 4-50's and the gunner was right there with the guns.  
I didn't work on the guns on the BUFF.  Pre-loaded Mk-82 slicks, 84 500# bombs on the bomb bay racks in preload, in the bomb dump.  Then was assigned to squadron control to dispatch the planes around the base, and the load crews to load them.  Then the bombing ended while I was there so it got real quiet for us.  Meanwhile they had been suppressing the jungle around the perimeter and the bomb dumps of both bases I was deployed to, with Agent Orange.  Said it was "bug spray".  The dioxin in AO is the source of all my medical problems now, and my VA disability rating.

Welcome home, Don.  And all veterans who made it back.

* For non-AF veterans, BUFF is the familial nickname for the B-52.  Big Ugly Fat Fu@ker.

[sandy]

I must say the F4 has a special place in my heart.  Prior to becoming an Army aviator, I was a special ops grunt back in the Vietnam days.  My team was someplace Americans "weren't" and our A**ES were hanging in the wind!  (Look up SOG if you want more info)  Had to get special permission to get air support to us, and I can tell you.....Seeing that squared up front view, the bent wings and that heavy black smoke trail come over the top of a mountain and head right to us.....was the most beautiful sight in my life!  Without them that day, I would not be owning a Valkyrie.

I will also add the A10 is a very special aircraft and should not be retired as long as the groundpounders need support and there are tanks on the battlefield!!!!!  BTW - God Bless every Apache pilot!

Trapper: Read the book "Across the Fence" by John Styker Meyer. I met him once and he told me some stories that curled my hair. A great book. My 2 best friends are VN combat vets. I did my time taking care of ICBMs in Kansas. Great respect for those that served there.

[3fan4life]

Had the pleasure of seeing both the F-4's and the A-10's in action during field problems when I was stationed at Ft Lewis Washington.

They are both awesome aircraft!

[Ramie]

I caught a few shot up F-4'S during the war.  Usually when the hydraulics got shot up and they had to manually lower the hook.  They were a solid air craft.

[Mooskee]

The squadron across the hanger from us had F4s. I was a Fire control tech AQ, so I worked on RADAR.  The F4 RADAR was a good one, but a killer to work on. It had a lot of exposed high voltage components. Our A6 RADAR was all modular and the cards were enclosed in boxes. Not as likely to kill ya. I worked on A4s, A6s and S2s. I cross trained as an AT also, so I worked on all the com nav as well.
I was in VC2 at NAS Oceania when the F14 came out. They would take off with the wings out and go airborne so quickly, they would pull up the gear and bank left over our hanger balls to the wall. Or they would take off, get just off the deck and g
o vertical. Amazing birds. I only ever got to fly in the A4s. I can't imagine the others. I love em all though.

[RP#62]

When I worked on the base I had some friends that were AQ's over at VF101.  When testing the radar on their F4s, they used to lock on to greyhound busses going down the highway (US 1 was less than a mile across a salt pond from their ramp).  Always wondered what the folks on the bus would have thought had they known.

-RP