coolant in exhaust

[art]

I am in desperate need of help.My 02 standard has a bad leak of coolant an oil into the right bank an exhaust .I have been having trouble with missing an rought running for over a year .two mo. ago I found coolant in the oil an comming out the exhaust so I pulled the heads an cleaned them an did a valve job an replaced the valve seals ,head gaskets an coolant pipe seals.Today I got it started an the engine is blowing blue smoke out the right side an oil an coolant dripping out the exhaust pipe.I don't know what to do .I may part it out an get another bike since getting another engine dosen't seem to be a good idea price wise.I can buy another valk or 1100cc shadow aero like I had in 98 .dose anybody have any experiance like this.Art

[fstsix]

Did you have the heads resurfaced?

[3W-lonerider]

since you tore everything apart and made sure everything was right..you sure it just isn't residual coolant and oil that might have been trapped in the muffler..i had to put a head on my work van because it blew a plug out of the head..when we started it after the repair it smoked like you would not believe..but everything sounded good..so i took it for a drive..could'nt see the back of my van for at least 10 miles..then it started clearing up..it all came from antifreeze getting into the exhaust pipe when we pulled the head..now i know the bike would be different..but if it was there before the rebuild it would be trapped in the muffler till it has a chance to burn itself out...worth a shot..

[Patrick]

Did anything happen to cause this problem?? Serious overheating or any such thing?? Have any modifications been made to this engine?? When you took it apart did you check to make sure the surfaces were true?? Did you look closely or wave a torch over everything in an attempt to check for any cracks??

[art]

I checked the heads an block  they are clean an flat with no modifications to the engine only 100000 mi. on it.I could not see any cracks anywhere an never overheated.I don't think alum.would crack very easy except for fatigue as in flexing airplane parts.I just can't see a cyl.head cracking.anyway I haven't found anything.I even coated the head gaskets with a light coat of sealer.Art

[Warlock]

I have seen some smoke like you are talking about. Also they will spit out water and look like some oil is mixed in with it. It depends on the weather and humidity. So you might just see some normal things that these do from time to time. Hoping this may be your problem. Does it seem to clear up once it gets warmed up?
David

[Patrick]

" Flexing airplane parts" ?? Humm, interesting.. Well, I guess I would fire that monster up and take a good look in the top radiator tank and the crankcase and see what that produces..  Pressurize the radiator and start looking for a drop in pressure and where that pressure is disappearing to.. When you took apart the engine what did you find defective, if anything?? The boys could right in saying that what your seeing may be ' stuff ' left in the exhaust system that needs to be burned off..

[art]

I didn't take the engine block apart .I removed the heads an did the top end . The amount of coolant comming out of the exhaust was excessive.I had a puddle of water an oil on the ground 6" wide an 2' long after 5 minutes of running an a cloud of blue smoke from the right exhaust.The exhaust pipes were in the garage hanging upright for two months an were dry when I instaled them.there has to be something major wrong but I cannot find it .I was hoping somebody may have had a similar experiance or knew if alum.heads can be checked for cracks.I don't think alum.heads can crack like cast iron auto heads can.Art

[98valk]

I even coated the head gaskets with a light coat of sealer.Art

I believe the coating is your problem. I have read and was told many times no coatings on the head gaskets. I'm sure there are some cases they need a coating, but in general no coating.
Does the service manual require a coating?

[Warlock]

I even coated the head gaskets with a light coat of sealer.Art

I believe the coating is your problem.

I have never put anything on head gaskets. I had missed that part of his post.
David

[Rio Wil]

It might be interesting and easy enough to do....pull the right exhaust off, put on hearing protection, crank it up.  Are all three cylinders spraying oil/coolant or just one. Its just the right side that is a problem, right. You said it had been running rough for a year or so...is that problem fixed?

[junior]

HEAD GASKETS GET PUT IN DRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!NO IF ANDS OR BUTS
and you put a light coating of motor oils in the headbolt threads and under the hexhaed and washer so you get true tourq values, and stop when the wrench goes click

[Jeff K]

Sealant on the head gaskets? What did you put on them? That was a bad idea.

The head could be cracked also, I believe Tigger had a cracked head once. It opened up when the engine warmed up.

[Patrick]

Yep, everyone is right about the sealant, I should have mentioned that also.. Aluminum can certainly crack.. Especially aluminum with steel stuff pressed into it.. I also wave a torch flame over everything and it'll show a crack quickly..

[art]

Ok I will replace the head gaskets again an clean everything an install them dry .I will also try checking for cracks with a torch.I cannot run the engine now because I have it apart.I sure hope I can get it fixed because I don't want to get another bike need money for other things.Art

[art]

Ok Patrick describe how you would look for a crack with a torch.I have a propane torch but I cannot find any cracks .I just ordered new head gaskets an will be going back togeather again next week.The heads are flat I already checked that.I've been a machinist for over 40 years an also always done my own auto an bike repairs an never had a problem like this.I'm near to parting it out an getting a nother bike.Art

[Patrick]

Art, I know you're frustrated as anyone would be,but, these are still the best bikes around.. Find a crack with a flame,, just lightly wave a flame over any surface that you suspect may have a crack..There is enough embedded oil that it will try and show itself once slightly warm.. Its surprising how many have laughed at that until it was proven to them[ lots of free beer and lunches].. My Grandfather showed me that trick when I was still draggin' on his pants legs..

[Redline +]

I didn't take the engine block apart .I removed the heads an did the top end . The amount of coolant comming out of the exhaust was excessive.I had a puddle of water an oil on the ground 6" wide an 2' long after 5 minutes of running an a cloud of blue smoke from the right exhaust.The exhaust pipes were in the garage hanging upright for two months an were dry when I instaled them.there has to be something major wrong but I cannot find it .I was hoping somebody may have had a similar experiance or knew if alum.heads can be checked for cracks.I don't think alum.heads can crack like cast iron auto heads can.Art

The most common way to check a water cooled aluminum head for cracks is to pressure test. Any good automotive machine shop could test it for you. A pressure test will also find pin holes or porosity problems. I find alot of this damage caused by electrolysis from neglected cooling systems.

Another thing, just because a head checks flat with a straight edge doesn't mean it's OK to use. There can be low spots in critical sealing areas that you may not see. I would recommend a pressure test and if good a light clean up cut on the head, then you know it's good.

Most modern head gaskets are installed dry.

Redline 

[RP#62]

Don't know if this will help you any, but one of the ways we check for cracks on aluminum aircraft parts is by the dye penetrant method.  It works on the same principle as Patrick's method and is fairly inexpensive.  First clean/degrease the part with any standard solvent.  Spray the part with red dye (comes in a spray can) and let it soak in a few minutes.  Clean all the dye off with solvent.  Spray the part with developer (comes in a spray can).  It leave a white powdery coating all over the part.  If there's a crack, the red dye will have seeped into it through capillary action and there's no way you'll get it out with the solvent.  Once the developer is sprayed on any cracks will show up as bright red lines against the white background of the developer.
-RP

[art]

I have used the dye check before I will buy some an do both.Thanks Art

[Robert]

First never put sealer on the head gasket. Before you take the heads off find which cylinder is the offender. The drier and cleaner the better threads need to be clean and lightly lubed. Remove all the plugs and put a pressure tester on the radiator and pump it up look to see which cylinder has water in it. You can also take off the exhaust and intake and see if any signs of water. It may take a hour or two but from the sound of yours it may be immediate.  The only problem may be the head gasket but a good machine shop will boil the heads and check for cracks also guides and valve wear. The surface of the head should also be machined to provide the best mating surface possible. One warning machine shops are not created equal find a good one and when they machine the face of the head make sure its smooth with no grooving at all. When doing the pressure checking you may be able to see where the leak is actually coming from, The actual spot so observance is the top priority including inside the cylinder or at very least to see if water is coming from the head area or from the cylinder itself.

[Redline +]

The only problem may be the head gasket but a good machine shop will boil the heads and check for cracks also guides and valve wear. The surface of the head should also be machined to provide the best mating surface possible. One warning machine shops are not created equal find a good one and when they machine the face of the head make sure its smooth with no grooving at all.

Art, If you are not comfortable with your local automotive machine shop options, you can ship it to me....I own a shop South of Seattle. I'd be glad to help. stewartmachine@msn.com

Redline