CPR - Question

[carolinarider09]

Just a question about CPR.   I have never done it for real.   Was trained both in my work in the US Navy and also commercial nuclear power. 

I am just trying to find out something about the process in real life.  The question is about chest compressions and what happens when you need to provide "breaths". 

If there are two people involved in the CPR process for an individual, one giving chest compressions and one providing breaths, do the chest compressions have to cease while the breaths are being provided? 

Thanks.   

[sandy]

Yes. Cease compressions as breaths are given. 15/2. Compression rate is given to the beat of “Stayin Alive” by The Bee Gees. Ironic but it works.

[carolinarider09]

Thanks for the confirmation.   And I sort of know the song but not that well. 

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

The last class I took said that breaths are far less important than the chest compressions. I found this study from back in 2006 (nearly 20 years ago... the horror!!). It touches on that subject a few sections down.   https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/Streamlined_CPR_guidelines_a_life-saving_move

Also, we went pretty heavily into the use of AED's, that are found in many commercial buildings these days. They are pretty well thought out now, and literally walk you through the process. They absolutely are a game-changer in whether a person in cardiac arrest may make it. The focus is on making a person's chances of living viable, and the amount of air that's being expelled and drawn in are thought to be enough, and stopping compressions to do breaths is detrimental to the process.

This is my opinion, with no medical training. I would do my very best if I saw someone in cardiac arrest. I would call 911, put my phone on speaker, and set it on the ground. If an AED was available, I'd absoulutely use it. If someone else is around, I'd have them get it so I could begin chest compressions immediately. If no AED was there, I would continue compressions until paramedics arrived, and not stop to do breaths. Again, that is what I would do.

[carolinarider09]

The last class I took said that breaths are far less important than the chest compressions. I found this study from back in 2006 (nearly 20 years ago... the horror!!). It touches on that subject a few sections down.   https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/Streamlined_CPR_guidelines_a_life-saving_move

Also, we went pretty heavily into the use of AED's, that are found in many commercial buildings these days. They are pretty well thought out now, and literally walk you through the process. They absolutely are a game-changer in whether a person in cardiac arrest may make it. The focus is on making a person's chances of living viable, and the amount of air that's being expelled and drawn in are thought to be enough, and stopping compressions to do breaths is detrimental to the process.

This is my opinion, with no medical training. I would do my very best if I saw someone in cardiac arrest. I would call 911, put my phone on speaker, and set it on the ground. If an AED was available, I'd absoulutely use it. If someone else is around, I'd have them get it so I could begin chest compressions immediately. If no AED was there, I would continue compressions until paramedics arrived, and not stop to do breaths. Again, that is what I would do.

Interesting and thanks for the feedback and info.  Will give the link a read.

[3fan4life]

Compressions are by far the most important part of CPR.

Compressions for an adult should be at least 2" deep at a rate of 100-120 per minute.

Hence compressing to the tune of Staying Alive.

To the general public we teach Hands only / Compression only CPR, i.e. "Push Hard, Push Fast".

Breaths aren't deemed to be as important as chest compressions.

Nothing has been shown to be more effective than early CPR and early defibrillation.


https://youtu.be/EluCCYOdkVw

https://cpr.heart.org/en/cpr-courses-and-kits/hands-only-cpr


Studies have shown that many people wouldn't initiate CPR out of a reluctance to give breaths.

Giving compressions circulates the blood and moves a small amount of air in and out of the lungs.

It's not much, but it's enough for a little while.

So, the AHA began a program to teach Hands Only CPR to the general public.

If a person was inclined to give breaths during CPR the compression to ventilation ratio is 30:2

[Disco]

I've only had to do it once is a real life, emergency situation.  What I did worked until the pros got there, but, unrelated to what I and the pros did, it was not a happy ending.  

I'd been taught decades ago in boy scouts.  Intermittent breaths were part of the protocol then.  

Not long before I had to perform, I was taught again while part of management at a large company.  One or two emergency breaths after clearing the mouth to ensure no blockage, but that's it.

Nothing but compressions after that, and the 2 inches I'd been taught twice is pure bunk.  When the pros got there, it got violent.  The compressions were at least 6 inches deep.  Afterwards, a medical friend of mine said "if you're not breaking ribs, you're not doing it right".  

CPR, in an emergency situation, should not be subtle or gentle.

[cookiedough]

interesting about doing compressions that hard and firm breaking ribs type.  I was in 90's long ago certified with American Red Cross took a class on a dummy and my chest compressions (with few breathes as well back then) were too HARD they said on the readout of printer inside dummy I broke ribs doing it and that is NOT good either. 

guess ideas change over time and yes, I heard chest compressions nowadays if nothing else ( no breathing into mouth) is best, but not sure breaking ribs hard compressions is best either

[Foozle]

Thanks for the confirmation.   And I sort of know the song but not that well.

Here's an entertaining demonstration (below) - showing, if nothing else, that the British have a sense of humor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y9zfEuzK7Q

[JimmyG]

During my 42-year career in Radiology, I have worked in several hospitals and clinics. The small hospitals always relied on us to assist in codes, so we have done a lot of CPR over the years.  Several made it, but some did not.  The amazing part is how it has changed over the years. Seems like every year they change the method or ratio.  But to get to the original question, when we were providing compressions and breaths, you could hardly see a pause in the compressions. The breath was given quickly, between compressions. Of course, it depended on who you were partnered up with.   Now, it seems that you just worry about compressions. I don't even know the ratio anymore.  I think someone mentioned 30/2.

[carolinarider09]

Thanks for the responses.   What triggered the question was a video I saw on a news broadcast about someone being given CPR. 

In the video the chest compressions, provided my person One, were rhythmic and in the 120 per minute range (a guess).  Another person was providing the ventilation with one of those manual devices.  That person did so on fairly frequent basis but there was no regard for the chest compressions being paused.

My thoughts were that the chest compression would negate the ventilation process.  But I am not a doctor  and I have not stayed in a Holiday Inn in the last two or three months (but will this week). 

And yes, the ventilation with the device could be done just as the chest compression is being released.   If I see the video again, I will look for that.  The persons doing the "CPR" appeared to be First Responders.

Thanks again for all the information and feedback.