26K to replace a transmission EV vehical

[Robert]

So was talking to a lady that was frantic about her BMW X5 xDrive40e that is a hybrid. So she was driving the car and the light comes on that the hybrid battery was not charging. So figure you should still be able to run it on gas since it does have an engine. Well the car stops in traffic and will not move. The light comes on for transmission fault and the designers of the car decided that if that happens you should not drive your car, so it stops.

Tows the car to the dealer and the dealer hits her with a 26k bill. She did not get into all the details as I was just talking with her but I did not think that it was all true. So I started to look into the possibilities  and sure enough the charging for the batteries is part of the transmission like the torque converter plus other parts that would need to be replaced. I dont know if this includes batteries but I doubt it. The transmission from what I can tell is nothing special either. Its the same as used on other BMW's.

People buy cars without knowing the repair cost, which with EV's has been extremely high in many cases. I also fault the car manufactures that could care less if you have to repair your car on your dime. They build the cars without repair cost in mind and many times longevity is also not a consideration.

With EV's this really becomes concerning since the cost of repair of some systems on the car cost more than the car itself.  


This car is ok to tow but the Tesla's, many companies will not tow them since when you do it destroys the motors in them.


2016 BMW X5 xDrive40e Test: The X5 Sprouts a Plug

A painless, if pricey, way to boost your SUV's green cred.  

Till you have to repair it.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15104390/2016-bmw-x5-xdrive40e-plug-in-hybrid-test-review/

[da prez]

   My two cents worth (before taxes) .  It is all in the sales hype. I would be willing to bet three quarters of the buying public has no real comprehension of vehicles and maintenance.   
  I was in the Cadillac shop with my wife's car and just listening to the service reps upsell service about made me gag.  Her car had a trans shifting problem. I did my research before going in. I put up fences on the issues that the car would learn our driving style. It N E V E R did. Idiot car , never learned. It is a known trans problem.  I sold the car after Bonnie died. (back to the dealership) . Not my problem.

                                                    da prez

[old2soon]

    All that comes to the old thinkin muscle is RIP OFF!   At 8 year old guessin it's outa warranty?   One of my NEW International tractors I drove crapped out East of Houston in I-10 during evening rush hour. It was diesel But it had a limp mode. When I pulled the yellow button-parking brake-the engine shut off before I tirned the key off. Turned out 3 of the 4 or 5 E C Ms had cashed in their chips. THAT took 2 days and the dlr ripped off a new truck in stock to git me back earning money!   RIDE SAFE.

[GiG]

People should select a repair facility with trained mechanics knowledgeable about the difference between hybrids and evs 

[GiG]

Ross- Cadillac has declared they will be 100% EV in the near future 
Just wondering what model you are referring to here?   

[Moonshot_1]

This brought another story to mind https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/hertz-sell-about-20000-evs-us-fleet-2024-01-11/

Hertz selling off their EV fleet because of the cost of maintenance and repairs, particularly collision and damage. Going with gas cars for future.

[Jess from VA]

There's nothing wrong with EVs that a 500 mile extension cord can't fix.   

You could not pay me to own one.   (OK... $1 million would do it)

[ridingron]

I think I read an article about the tire wear on an EV. About the same as bikes except you have to buy 4.

[da prez]

  Gig , 2018 ATS Coupe. It is a known , non-repairable problem.

                                                 da prez

[98valk]

There's nothing wrong with EVs that a 500 mile extension cord can't fix.   

You could not pay me to own one.   (OK... $1 million would do it)

https://www.wired.com/2010/11/range-extending-trailer-charges-your-ev-carries-your-gear/

""A company in Wakarusa, Indiana, has designed a self-propelled trailer that contains an electric generator and batteries that keep an EV charged. ""

[Robert]

I would not trust Cadillac at all,

Friend was stuck in a shopping center for 6 hours over not being able to get his 19 Caddy SUV into neutral to tow the car. Even AAA who came said they could not tow the car.

Seems unless the engine is running it will not shift into neutral. So if the car wont start you are parked nose in a parking space or any way for that matter and cant get into neutral and how are you supposed to tow the car??

His car was not even a hybrid.

No provision made for an emergency bypass to put into neutral  

The Cadillac cannot think through an emergency situation.

When the authorized tow from Caddy actually came they had to put wheel chocks under the front wheels. Of course after they slid the car back wheels locked a few feet to get the chocks under them.

[Serk]

There's nothing wrong with EVs that a 500 mile extension cord can't fix.   

You could not pay me to own one.   (OK... $1 million would do it)

https://www.wired.com/2010/11/range-extending-trailer-charges-your-ev-carries-your-gear/

""A company in Wakarusa, Indiana, has designed a self-propelled trailer that contains an electric generator and batteries that keep an EV charged. ""

That article's from 14 years ago, a lot has changed. Small generators just don't have enough oomph to keep a modern EV charged enough to be worth the hassle. Also, the size of the EV charging network has VASTLY expanded since then. It is possible to travel from coast to coast in an EV quite easily, if one wants to.

But ya'll are missing the point - someone who takes lots of cross country trips generally isn't the best use case scenario for an EV, at least not with current tech and infrastructure.

Where an EV would be ideal is for the generic city commuter, city errand runner who drives 50-200 or so miles a day. In that use case scenario, an EV would be ideal.

I'd love to have one, but it would definitely NOT be my only cage, still want an ICE powered vehicle for longer trips, at least for now...

But the cost is still prohibitive, although I've taken a close look at some of the Hertz sales of Teslas... But still out of my price range, for a secondary vehicle... For now.

If you look past your righteous anger at the boneheaded mandates and subsidies, EVs are really pretty cool devices, with a lot of good use cases. Not all, definitely, but for a go to work and get the groceries on the way home vehicle? It'd be great...

[Robert]

I would not own an EV but can see how in some cases they may be good.

But the problem I have is fires.

I wonder when in NY we are going to have the first EV fire in a  parking garage or building garage and how that is going to be dealt with.


Lithium-ion batteries were responsible for at least 220 fires in New York City in 2022, according to city numbers, and were also to blame for at least 10 deaths and 226 injuries in 2021 and 2022. 

[scooperhsd]

You couldn't GIVE me an EV at this time....

[Serk]

You wouldn't know it from the clickbait headlines breathlessly talking about EV fires, but an EV is 29 TIMES less likely to catch fire than an ICE vehicle...

(Yes, even taking in to account the greater prevalence of ICE vehicles)

"Combustion-Powered Vehicles Are 29 Times More Likely To Catch Fire
According to MSB data, there are nearly 611,000 EVs and hybrids in Sweden as of 2022. With an average of 16 EV and hybrid fires per year, there's a 1 in 38,000 chance of fire. There are a total of roughly 4.4 million gas- and diesel-powered passenger vehicles in Sweden, with an average of 3,384 fires per year, for a 1 in 1,300 chance of fire. That means gas- and diesel-powered passenger vehicles are 29 times more likely to catch fire than EVs and hybrids."

https://www.motortrend.com/features/you-are-wrong-about-ev-fires/


Edit to add:

Lithium-ion batteries were responsible for at least 220 fires in New York City in 2022, according to city numbers, and were also to blame for at least 10 deaths and 226 injuries in 2021 and 2022. 

Most, if not all of these are from cheap Chinese scooters and e-bikes...

[Moonshot_1]

You wouldn't know it from the clickbait headlines breathlessly talking about EV fires, but an EV is 29 TIMES less likely to catch fire than an ICE vehicle...

(Yes, even taking in to account the greater prevalence of ICE vehicles)

"Combustion-Powered Vehicles Are 29 Times More Likely To Catch Fire
According to MSB data, there are nearly 611,000 EVs and hybrids in Sweden as of 2022. With an average of 16 EV and hybrid fires per year, there's a 1 in 38,000 chance of fire. There are a total of roughly 4.4 million gas- and diesel-powered passenger vehicles in Sweden, with an average of 3,384 fires per year, for a 1 in 1,300 chance of fire. That means gas- and diesel-powered passenger vehicles are 29 times more likely to catch fire than EVs and hybrids."

https://www.motortrend.com/features/you-are-wrong-about-ev-fires/


Edit to add:

Lithium-ion batteries were responsible for at least 220 fires in New York City in 2022, according to city numbers, and were also to blame for at least 10 deaths and 226 injuries in 2021 and 2022. 

Most, if not all of these are from cheap Chinese scooters and e-bikes...

I don't think the comparable rate of fires is the issue. (It is in the article but not the reality so to speak)The issue is putting the fire out. EV battery fires I believe are more toxic, burn hotter and takes more time and effort to extinguish.

[da prez]

  Lets get them all in the demo-derbies. 600' long marshmallow sticks.

                                             da prez

[Robert]

Unfortunately the EVs here in Florida created a real problem with the floods. But also happen if cars wind up in ditches from accidents. They burned down buildings and houses and they had to make a big yard just to separate them so that if they burned they would not harm anything else.

They would seem like the perfect vehicle to keep if you are a snow bird till something like this happens.

Many tow truck drivers will not tow any vehicle that has had electrical fire or any fire, because they can reignite on the truck and burn the truck also.

I have seen a normal gas vehicle catch fire again on a tow truck after there was short in the car. You just never know when or if they will catch fire again.

To me these issues need to be solved before EVs can truly earn a real place in society.

There is talk of banning EVs in an emergency evacuation since they would block traffic

The person that suggested this does not have any authority to make it happen, its just a discussion.

A Florida lawmaker wants to ban EVs from evacuating during hurricanes.
https://electrek.co/2023/03/06/florida-lawmaker-wants-to-ban-evs-from-hurricane-evacuations/



Hurricane Ian flood damage to EVs creating ticking time bombs in Florida

https://abc7news.com/hurricane-ian-ev-car-fires-electric-cars-damaged-florida-flood-damage/12356326/

As much as I see EVs can have a place in society there are some real downsides to them. I also dont like that most EV components come from China, who I dont like helping them. The supply chain can also be cut off instantly. What politician has his hand in pushing EVs?

So why are we helping China to produce cars that cost the US more money, take away US jobs, stress the people over pricing, force the removal of gas vehicles, and limit an abundant resource, gas in the US? For what, when China has built more coal fired plants in China since the US has pushed to limit its own emissions. Even though we are one of the least polluting countries.

The extreme pressure and legislation to convert to EVs and now everything electric is costly, dangerous, has cost lives, Homes, businesses and a whole host of other problems.

Our whole infrastructure is based on gas and oil, and there is talk of destroying non EV vehicles over time. So old cars would not be registered any longer.

This would also throw out whole industries in the US and people would be forced to find other jobs.

Let EVs be offered organically so that people and the US as a whole warm up to them and the problems can be solved with much less stress.

Take off the tax break to buy EVs also because there is no climate change destruction coming, and gas powered vehicles are less polluting than EVs over time. This is the reason for the push, take that away and time would allow the integration of electrics naturally, not in a forced situation that polarizes them and peoples ideas about them. 
 

Windows was made and gave birth to most everything we have today. It made machine language acceptable and accessible to all. But it has still not been perfected today in the many revisions that have come since its founding. This was done with interest and the will and wish of people to use the system also. Without the grand push and mandates we see today. But it took time, it took adjustments, new ideas, new technology and a whole host of things.

Cars today all cars still have problems, revisions, computers that have been revised 10 times in the same year car. So this failure in design, coupled with politicians political ambitions, coupled with hype over climate change and industries not being able to design a product that does not need revisions, updates, modifications out in the field in public hands and this is what the liars would say EVs are the answer.

There is no technology that man has created that is perfect and workable in the first shot.

I look at cars today, both EV and regular and wonder, what computer chip, what circuit board will fail in that car and cause the car to be down for an extended time or have to be thrown away. When will they stop making the computer or part for a car so that its no longer serviceable?

Water intrusion into cars has destroyed more cars than I can count. Yet they still keep making them and they leak from new, what happens in an EV?

We are no longer at the day when we can slap a ball joint in a car and keep it going. Today if the computer goes and they dont make it any more you can kiss that car goodbye.

Does it happen, Yes all the time. The supply chain is not geared to make electronic or even hard parts for cars forever.

With the global market problems, and supply chain problems, I wonder how this will also change the car market.

As a last thought, Ball joints can be replaced by any skilled mechanic, but who is going to diagnose, repair, and test a circuit board when it fails?

TVs repair today keep circuit boards for that model handy, the diagnosis is switch it and if its fixed that was the problem. If not, throw the thing away, are cars going to be like that?

By law car makers only have to have parts for 10 years for that car. So what about EVs in 10 years, is that the life span?

[old2soon]

      C'mon Robert you is askin questions the idiots in charge Are incapable of answering. I have more puters on my 06 Grand Prix than what I want but it are what it are. I'm with others even should I be  given an EV I'd prefer NOT to use it. Course when deception central "they" and china shut off the petroleum I have like zero idea what anyone much less me will do. And when electricity starts being rationed everywhere all the time gonna really suck cuz I have electric powered medical devices that are improving and extending my quality of life. RIDE SAFE.

[Serk]

[Robert]

 

How timely, wife just watched a show on how they treat the animals we eat. So tonight we go vegan, only for one meal thank God. LOL

[Robert]

      C'mon Robert you is askin questions the idiots in charge Are incapable of answering. I have more puters on my 06 Grand Prix than what I want but it are what it are. I'm with others even should I be  given an EV I'd prefer NOT to use it. Course when deception central "they" and china shut off the petroleum I have like zero idea what anyone much less me will do. And when electricity starts being rationed everywhere all the time gonna really suck cuz I have electric powered medical devices that are improving and extending my quality of life. RIDE SAFE.

 

[Moonshot_1]

Biggest fail in German Engineering.

[98valk]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/report-shows-electric-vehicles-unreliable-160029308.html

""A sobering new reliability report from Consumer Reports indicates electric vehicles still have a long road ahead regarding dependable performance. The survey of over 300,000 vehicles found electric models suffer 79% more maintenance problems than gas-powered cars. Meanwhile, plug-in hybrids fared even worse — with a concerning 146% more issues reported by drivers.""

[GiG]

EVvehical update:

“ General Motors Co. is planning to bring plug-in hybrid options to the North American market, CEO Mary Barra confirmed to analysts on Tuesday during GM's fourth-quarter and full-year earnings call. “


This thread is misleading, and highly confusing, the title indicates ev vehicals (whatever that is supposed to mean), then goes immediately into hybrid conspiracies, someone heard about(here say)btw ev means “electric vehicle” a different animal altogether from hybrid.
Side story: in four decades of vehicle testing where we employ accelerated lifespan testing I’ve never seen an ice vehicle consumed by fire. On the other hand while doing work on lion prototypes at a laboratory near Buffalo NY, we had 6 fire departments respond and that lab no longer exists I went back recently just to see. Lithium burns hotter and faster than anything I’ve witnessed ( see the Dewalt Battery lawnmower fire video listed above…), glad it was not my own lab to fry, there is a reason we use “labs for hire”. They should have had better safety protocols, they gone now. I told the technician, “do not open the door!” But he did so I ran out, no longer a possibility to smother the raging lion fire inside the test chamber! A $1million infrastructure & instrumentation laboratory up in smoke, too bad!

[cookiedough]

my biggest issues, besides price, of EV's is in cold WI winters when under zero degrees out the power supply can be zapped up to say 40% less driving distance.  AT a normal 300 mile range lets say, that is near 150 mile range, NOT far enough for me using it as I would intend to do mostly hwy. miles.

[Robert]

EVvehical update:

This thread is misleading, and highly confusing, the title indicates ev vehicals (whatever that is supposed to mean), then goes immediately into hybrid conspiracies, someone heard about(here say)btw ev means “electric vehicle” a different animal altogether from hybrid.

The EV and Hybrid are not totally different. Some of the same components like batteries, chargers and electronic components are some of the same. They may be different in their configuration or construction of the internal components but serve the same purpose. Just because one has a gas engine that charges the batteries much of the same electronics and components are used in both vehicles. The actual converters are different, the batteries are smaller in hybrids but they serve the same purpose. Including the electric motors to drive the car itself. So I dont know how you can say they are totally different. Since one has a gas generator on board to charge the batteries and run the vehicle and one only has a plug.

This is where the problem is and the cost, batteries, charging systems, controllers, converters. The comparison between electric and gas of the same vehicle is interesting. The transmission to rebuild on the gas vehicle would be from the dealer about 8k, not the 26k for electric. This is in part due to the fact that the converter housing area is also a generator.

Dont know how many electric vehicles you have had hands on experience with but I have seen many of the same components in all three. For the Hybrid many have dual cooling systems, dual charging, dual batteries, one 12v, one could be 300v to 600v. Two separate systems all together though like the Prius that has been out for a long time. But all electrics and hybrids have batteries, converters, chassis mods to make it all work.

So it really is not all that confusing, to understand the basics. To repair them it gets more complicated of course since individual systems and different construction between car lines changes.

Batteries on the pure EV's is a problem in the location, shear weight and access to them. Usually located in the bottom of the car in a semi sealed panel that extends the whole bottom of the car in some. I have seen electronic components also put in there so access is a problem to systems that fail.  

The Prius batteries are fairly easy to get to and service. Most of the electric components are made to have fairly easy access to also. In fact some have offered a service to rebuild the Prius batteries that cost a fraction of total replacement.

A reminder that there is NO standard repair cost for EV's or Hybrid systems like on regular cars that I have seen. So the price they get to repair is at their discretion. Much the same way when cars first came out there was no price repair estimate guides for them.

A house generator has many of the same functions as a Hybrid and its easier to picture a generator to understand the Hybrids. Of course different voltages and different demands but both have two isolated electrical systems that run them.

The Pure EV has only one system of motor, batteries and controller of course and removes the generator portion of the equation. That is really the only difference in basic design and has a charging plug.  

Here is a Formula One car that is a Hybrid and the explanation of how it works is interesting. Much more interesting than the standard Hybrid but the same principles apply and its much more interesting to see.


How a Formula 1 Race Car Works
https://youtu.be/V7707zEX9X4?si=BEBy3WOzy6r1v2N1


What is Toyota Hybrid System
https://youtu.be/XFVd_fCiO88?si=NCGgNVwllvivkC2d