speeding ticket - go to court or not?

[cookiedough]

got my first ever speeding ticket 4 points on record and 15 mph over posted speed limit.  Traffic on I-90 system were all going only 3-4 mph less than me, I just got to be the LUCKY ONE in left lane going slightly faster than the right lane traffic at the time.

Question:  Seeing as how this is the first time in 37 years of driving ever stopped or pulled over and 1st ticket ever, do you think going to court May 28th will do any good to confess was speeding like the rest of the traffic nearby me was just in left lane going 3-4 mph tops faster than the right lane of traffic was going?  Also indicating I learned my lesson indicating 37 years of not being stopped ever by a police officer for anything would hope the judge be lenient an dissolve the 4 points now on my driving record?

Not care much about the 200 ticket since obviously was speeding, but in WI 4 points on driving record could increase my insurnace rates 15-20 percent on all 4 vehicles and all 4 cycles and the rates are already HIGH enough since have 1 kid age 23 on my insurance still.    Even if judge reduced to 2 points would help since supposedly in WI that might only be a 5-10 percent rate increase.

I already am allowed time off work for it but is 6 hours of driving time since happened in county 3 hrs north of where I live.     Yah, will be 30 more bucks in gas expense, but the points stay on my record for 2 full years and 15-20% rate increase would be worth a shot throwing myself at the mercy of the judge in court.

Judge might though just say too bad pay 200 bucks and 4 points too darn bad?    Anyone EVER go to court on speeding ticket and get it thrown out or reduced either cost of ticket or reduced points off record?   And if so,  what did you say to the judge to help your case? 

[cookiedough]

the bigger issue is can I get up at 5 a.m. to be in court at 830 a.m. that Tuesday having to drive 3 hours north to get to court?  LOL

one good thing even if not get any resolution in court is not being at work for 4-5 hrs is still worth a shot to me...

[3fan4life]

VA has a Driver Improvement Program (DIP), that most judges will let you take if your driving record is good.

You still wind up paying the fine, but it doesn't go against your insurance.

My last speeding ticket cost me $600, but it didn't go against my insurance.

In the long run it was cheaper.

[JimC]

Read the ticket,
 
Plead not guilty, and request a pre-trial phone conference with the city or county attorney.
When you talk to him or her, explain the situation, and ask them if they have a municipal citation that it can be reduced to.

The local municipality gets more money, usually all of it, with a municipal ticket, vs. 10 to 20 % of the revenue with the state citation and there are no points attached.

Guess which they would rather collect?

Jim
 

[Jersey mike]

Nj has a drivers safety class you can enroll in, I think it’s an 8 hour class and points can be reduced or eliminated, it’s been awhile since I’ve been to one. Was it just speeding or is it considered careless or reckless?

I got nabbed in Virginia many years ago…15 over. It was automatically reckless. 2 days later I started getting mail solicitation from Virginia attorneys saying they could help.

I had paid the ticket ($500.00 I think) via website thinking it was the right thing to do and would live with the points consequences since NJ and VA are reciprocal with dmv.

My wife suggested calling one of the attorneys who sent a very good letter offering to help. After a couple emails and then a phone conversation I decided to hire her, I believe her cost was $500.00.

Long story short, she went to court, had the ticket reduced to “instrument failure”. The money I paid for the ticket was enough to cover the expense tomthe court and nothing was ever transferred to NJ DMV, so no points.

[LadyDraco]

If  you go to court ,  you also have  court fees  that must be  paid..
   I  normally   just pay the  ticket and  walk away here  it's 3 pts  and 3yrs on the  lic..
Something  like  that... But my last ticket was 160...
Then when I paid it  she  clerk say  yeah he  hates  motorcycles...
I say to her , then he  shouldn't  be  an Officer...
That SOB  even said  to me  I trying  to decide  if  I should  take  you to jail ! WTF ...

[da prez]

  A lot of the court systems use video court. A time saver.
 My last speeding ticket (Bonnie was an attorney) cost me $275.00 in court cost and drivers education. I enjoyed the class and learned a lot of new laws.  One character was on a first name basis with the officer instructor.  Bonnie called them frequent fliers!
       Nothing went on my record. This was in Illinois. 

                                                         da prez

[Jess from VA]

Cookie, the above responses are all good.

The point is, you need to discover what if any standard deals on a speeding ticket may be available to you in Wisconsin generally, or in that local Wisconsin District (traffic) Court system specifically.

You may be able to discover this researching on line.  An attorney will know, but not for free.  If you know any local (patrol) policemen they may know.

There are all manner of deals possible, and with a good clean historical driving record, you should be a good candidate for whatever may be available.  Whether they let you plead to a lesser offense, or take a class, or take a probationary period, or plead guilty in abeyance (you plead guilty, but it is not entered on your record and if you go 6-12 months with no other ticket, it may be dismissed or reduced).  There are occasions where the ticketing officer is not in court (to testify in case you plead not guilty), so the case is dismissed (but you have to know the officer is not there, they won't tell you that).

Ordinarily, I would advise you to contact the prosecuting attorney (or the office of) that handles traffic cases (not murder, rape, arson, robbery...  serious felony work) and simply ask what if any deal may be available with a perfect driving record.  Small population counties often farm out the traffic prosecution business to a local private attorney or law firm.  And it would be best to do so before your court date, rather than driving up on the court date, trying to get some face time with the prosecutor, and trying to get some kind of deal with him all at the last minute.  You do not want to be running around chasing a deal and have the judge call your case and you are not in the courtroom (so he issues a bench warrant for your arrest).

Do your homework, make some calls, do it early.  

If possible, you try to work a deal by phone, with paperwork (and money) back and forth, and maybe you don't have to drive up there at all.  

If you do go to court, dress and shave neat and clean (showing respect), but don't wear your best suit and tie (showing you have plenty of money to pay the court system).    

[Oss]

what Jim and Jess said

Here if outside NYC   the officer will usually allow a plea to a no points violation
with your record   In mt vernon they call the moving violations before the LT cases so I get to hear the deals being made

something like parked on the shoulder or the like is good or sometimes judge will just dismiss if any mistake on the ticket  Have you checked the info on ticket is all correct?

but by all means call the court system 1st and if you go, show up early and speak to the officer or the local da

never admit you were speeding tho

[Jersey mike]

This might sound stupid, but if you do decide to go to court, dress appropriately.

 I’m not suggesting a suit and tie but something more fitting for a court appearance. I do believe it makes a difference showing respect to the court.

[h13man]

got my first ever speeding ticket 4 points on record and 15 mph over posted speed limit.  Traffic on I-90 system were all going only 3-4 mph less than me, I just got to be the LUCKY ONE in left lane going slightly faster than the right lane traffic at the time.



Not care much about the 200 ticket since obviously was speeding, but in WI 4 points on driving record could increase my insurance rates 15-20 percent on all 4 vehicles and all 4 cycles and the rates are already HIGH enough since have 1 kid age 23 on my insurance still.    Even if judge reduced to 2 points would help since supposedly in WI that might only be a 5-10 percent rate increase.

I already am allowed time off work for it but is 6 hours of driving time since happened in county 3 hrs north of where I live.     Yah, will be 30 more bucks in gas expense, but the points stay on my record for 2 full years and 15-20% rate increase would be worth a shot throwing myself at the mercy of the judge in court.

Judge might though just say too bad pay 200 bucks and 4 points too darn bad?    Anyone EVER go to court on speeding ticket and get it thrown out or reduced either cost of ticket or reduced points off record?   And if so,  what did you say to the judge to help your case? 

In the 80's 15 mph over was considered reckless driving especially if the LEO had a burr up his arse fortunately the judge did lower it to a lesser mph. And yes your MC insurance will go up. Progressive dinged me 1/3 increase though I was in my car at the time of the offense. This is how I found Allstate being the best deal for me. Insurance is based on where you live thus I pay $230 for full coverage a year even with 2 fat bikes but haven't got my new statement as of yet. For 2 yrs. Indiana keeps it on your driving record.

[Serk]

In The Republic as long at I think it's 24 over the limit or less you can generally take Defensive Driving once a year, or deferred adjudications also I think once a year. The city that the road pirates were flying the flag of will still get their cut of the loot of course, but both of these options will at least keep it off your record for insurance purposes...

This isn't common nationwide? I always thought it was a pretty universal thing; still let's the pirates get their cut but doesn't hurt your insurance or driving record...

[crow]

FOIA the officers warning vs ticket record. Might be some very useful information there.

[Wizzard]

I can tell you that the excuse of going the same speed as everyone else does not fly.
I was told that 400 wrongs don't make a right and yes, I was the unlucky one that got singled out.

[F6Dave]

It’s been about 20 years since I’ve had a speeding ticket. Here in the western US, speed limits are usually high enough that you can ride at a good pace at the posted limit. For instance Beartooth Pass in Montana has a limit of 70; you couldn’t get a ticket there if you tried!

That last ticket was kind of interesting. It was on the outskirts of a small town where the limit abruptly dropped from 65 to 35. I was cited for doing 60 in a ‘business district’. That was 25 over the limit, a 6 point violation. I went to visit the DA at the arraignment and expected them to offer a reduction to 2 or 4 points, as friends told me that was the usual process. But there was a new DA who wasn’t making deals, so my only option was to plead not guilty and take my chances with the judge.

The National Motorists Association is a driver’s rights organization in Wisconsin that offers assistance on fighting traffic tickets. Back then, they rented their members a set of books (today it’s online) that covers the legal process in painful detail. I chose one of the easier books to get ready for my case. It had some pretty good suggestions. One was to show up well prepared. A judge may get irritated if you waste their time with a flimsy theory, but might cut you some slack if you present a reasonable case.

They also said don’t ever challenge the radar! The DA will read a script from the manufacturer making your challenge nearly impossible. Instead, they suggested finding a significant technicality that might catch the DA off guard, like a posted limit that doesn’t comply with state statutes.

That suggestion seemed to fit my case, since the 35 MPH sign was well outside of town. I looked up the statute I was cited with and it was very specific: a ‘business district’ actually needs a business, and more than 600 feet of roadway without one it isn’t a business district! I went back to the scene of the crime and took photos of the vacant 'business district', and brought them and a copy of the statute to my trial.

As expected, the DA opened by reading a script from the radar manufacturer, just like the one in the book. When it was my turn I admitted I was driving at 60, which seemed to surprise the two young guys from the DA’s office. Then I showed my photos to the judge and read the statute, claiming I believed the sign had been posted improperly. To my surprise the judge agreed and found me not guilty. And on the way out the DAs congratulated me! Maybe my defense was more interesting than their typical speeding ticket case.

I never would have gone to all that trouble if the DA had offered to reduce my points. But it was a heck of a learning experience.

[Jess from VA]

Excellent job Dave.   

As soon as you wrote the limit 'abruptly dropped from 65 to 35,' that was going to be my area of inquiry as well.  And having a state statute to back you up was golden.

You know, old time podunk town/cop speed traps used to be just the same.  Drop the limit suddenly, hide the sign behind a tree, hide the cop behind the tree, bingo. 

I got caught in a speed trap decades ago, and it was at the bottom of a long steep hill.  My foot was clear off the gas all the way down, and I was still speeding (for saving my brakes).

[Jack B]

If you were doing 15 over the speed limit that’s 85mph,
In Wis they didn’t look at you unless you’re 10+ over.
Just pay your fine and on get on with your life, you were flying.

[Robert]

I never would have gone to all that trouble if the DA had offered to reduce my points. But it was a heck of a learning experience.

Excellent job and great experience.  

I would trust what Oss says in the answering of the ticket though. But I doubt the insurance would raise your rates but the option is up to them.

[G-Man]

Pulled over 3 times for speeding.  Got a summons all 3 times.  Showed up on the date I was told all 3 times.  Got on the line to see the prosecutor all 3 times.  Agreed to no trial and plead guilty to a parking ticket ALL 3 TIMES.  Judge asked me if I agreed to pleading guilty to the parking tickets and I received no points and no insurance rate hikes all three times.

Show up!

[Moonshot_1]

If the ticket is legit, just pay it.

If you go to court, you will be running late. You will be doing 20+ over the limit trying to get there on time and get another ticket. And still be late.

Fate is like that.

[Jess from VA]

If the ticket is legit, just pay it.

I generally agree (esp with the idea of taking responsibility for your actions), but...

My most recent insurance bills are way up (homeowners, vehicles).  Maybe double what they were only a few years ago. 

I've not filed a claim in decades, I have no tickets for 20 years, but it doesn't matter.

With the terrible economy and soaring inflation, every damn thing is up.  So if an insurer has to pay off on anything, their costs are way up too, so it gets passed along to us insured.

So if there is some easy deal, deferral, bargain, class to take on some ticket that will impact your insurance bills (maybe for years), it's worth looking into.  Especially if you have a good record, and if the deal is available for the asking in your county courthouse.  You likely still pay full value on the ticket, but they work it to hide from the insurance companies (and maybe points on your record).

It's one thing to pay your ticket.  It's another thing to get a 25-40% hike in your vehicle insurance bills for years to come.   

[cookiedough]

If the ticket is legit, just pay it.

I generally agree (esp with the idea of taking responsibility for your actions), but...

My most recent insurance bills are way up (homeowners, vehicles).  Maybe double what they were only a few years ago. 

I've not filed a claim in decades, I have no tickets for 20 years, but it doesn't matter.

With the terrible economy and soaring inflation, every damn thing is up.  So if an insurer has to pay off on anything, their costs are way up too, so it gets passed along to us insured.

So if there is some easy deal, deferral, bargain, class to take on some ticket that will impact your insurance bills (maybe for years), it's worth looking into.  Especially if you have a good record, and if the deal is available for the asking in your county courthouse.  You likely still pay full value on the ticket, but they work it to hide from the insurance companies (and maybe points on your record).

It's one thing to pay your ticket.  It's another thing to get a 25-40% hike in your vehicle insurance bills for years to come.   

Yes Jess,  that is what I am thinking,  pay the 200 fine no issues there, but to have my 4 vehicle car insurance go up 15-20% every 6 month renewal is NOT an option I want to address for next 2 years in WI.  At  over 1300 bucks pd every 6 months vehicle insurance,  that is about 275 bucks EXTRA every renewal is 20% rate increase for next 2 years, NOT an option to me. 

I called courthouse and lady in clerk of court said I must plead NOT guilty and FAX a letter to court/DA to read it BEFORE May 28th court hearing and go from there.  I do not need to show up for court 830 a.m. as long as the DA/courthouse get the letter a week or so before the trial.  Am guessing they call me, etc. to get a phone call with DA and explain the situation that day.  So, within next week gotta find someone who still has a FAX machine.  NO idea why an email will not work, but I guess  (will call again) can always do old fashion way and MAIL it.  Just have to think of a good lame excuse to request paying the fine, but having 4 points go off my record to NOT affect my vehicle insurance since clean driving record past 37 years or so.   Like one said though,  cannot claim going speed of what others around me were doing which was the case here, but not saying it, but was going in left lane about 2-3 mph over the other vehicles in right lane, but ALL of us were going 70-75 mph in a 60 mph speed zone.   275 bucks x 4 renewals is INSANE 1100 bucks EXTRA just for 15 mph over speed limit. 

[F6Dave]

Here's the organization where I got the information for fighting a ticket. There's no way I could have won my case without their help. They even have some kind of reimbursement for members that fight a ticket and lose.

https://ww2.motorists.org/

[F6Dave]

I completely agree that it's worth at least getting the points reduced to minimize insurance increases. I just got a bill and the premium increased by 24%!

[Jersey mike]

If the ticket is legit, just pay it.

I generally agree (esp with the idea of taking responsibility for your actions), but...

My most recent insurance bills are way up (homeowners, vehicles).  Maybe double what they were only a few years ago. 

I've not filed a claim in decades, I have no tickets for 20 years, but it doesn't matter.

With the terrible economy and soaring inflation, every damn thing is up.  So if an insurer has to pay off on anything, their costs are way up too, so it gets passed along to us insured.

So if there is some easy deal, deferral, bargain, class to take on some ticket that will impact your insurance bills (maybe for years), it's worth looking into.  Especially if you have a good record, and if the deal is available for the asking in your county courthouse.  You likely still pay full value on the ticket, but they work it to hide from the insurance companies (and maybe points on your record).

It's one thing to pay your ticket.  It's another thing to get a 25-40% hike in your vehicle insurance bills for years to come.   

Yes Jess,  that is what I am thinking,  pay the 200 fine no issues there, but to have my 4 vehicle car insurance go up 15-20% every 6 month renewal is NOT an option I want to address for next 2 years in WI.  At  over 1300 bucks pd every 6 months vehicle insurance,  that is about 275 bucks EXTRA every renewal is 20% rate increase for next 2 years, NOT an option to me. 

I called courthouse and lady in clerk of court said I must plead NOT guilty and FAX a letter to court/DA to read it BEFORE May 28th court hearing and go from there.  I do not need to show up for court 830 a.m. as long as the DA/courthouse get the letter a week or so before the trial.  Am guessing they call me, etc. to get a phone call with DA and explain the situation that day.  So, within next week gotta find someone who still has a FAX machine.  NO idea why an email will not work, but I guess  (will call again) can always do old fashion way and MAIL it.  Just have to think of a good lame excuse to request paying the fine, but having 4 points go off my record to NOT affect my vehicle insurance since clean driving record past 37 years or so.   Like one said though,  cannot claim going speed of what others around me were doing which was the case here, but not saying it, but was going in left lane about 2-3 mph over the other vehicles in right lane, but ALL of us were going 70-75 mph in a 60 mph speed zone.   275 bucks x 4 renewals is INSANE 1100 bucks EXTRA just for 15 mph over speed limit. 

You have 4 cars @ $2,600 for the year? Those are excellent numbers. We’re over $6,000 for 3 cars but we have a lot of coverage including no verbal threshold and 1 child (24) on our policy still.

[Robert]

I would fight it, its a pain, but an new experience that may save you on insurance, if it goes up. 

Of course unless the Karma and tea leaves say you deserve it.   

[Willow]

You did it.  You got caught.  Pay it and put it behind you.

[Robert]

You did it.  You got caught.  Pay it and put it behind you.

Laws are available to him as others have done with tickets, it is a legal way of not being charged extra on his insurance. Which is the biggest scam and should be illegal.

Are you saying he accept that because that makes him a man otherwise he is immoral, or because he could not get the ticket vacated?

In fighting an unfair system we find things that help others and broaden our understanding of the system put there long ago in the name of public safety but today serves only as a revenue stream for the insurance companies and state.

In his shoes I would pay the ticket if it would mean no extra insurance charge, but they did not give him a discount for his good driving for many many years.

[Willow]

You did it.  You got caught.  Pay it and put it behind you.

Laws are available to him as others have done with tickets, it is a legal way of not being charged extra on his insurance. Which is the biggest scam and should be illegal.
... 

Legal and ethical are two different things.

Those promoting going around the insurance companies' statistical charging are obviously forgetting or ignoring that that causes the rest of us to pay more to carry their load.  Insurance companies have no income but what you and I pay.  It isn't a scam.  It is simply a way of the company attempting to vary the cost of their policies depending upon the likelihood of the company (using your and my funds) having to pay out a claim.

[Jess from VA]

Insurance companies always make money.  Big money.  Few insurance companies go out of business for lack of money.

If a percentage of drivers are able to avoid their premium hikes due to tickets, they still make money. 

[Robert]

Insurance companies always make money.  Big money.  Few insurance companies go out of business for lack of money.

If a percentage of drivers are able to avoid their premium hikes due to tickets, they still make money. 

So true 

One day I asked and said can I just pay for my insurance instead of all the others that have terrible driving records. Stupid question of course, but it just makes you mad you have to pay for a stupid terrible driver that does not care about their rates. 

The only time insurers went out was here in Florida because of the hurricane. Of course now the rates are going through the roof because of so many roofs repaired during the last storm. No pun intended

[cookiedough]

I agree with what Robert just said.   As far as only 1300 for 4 vehicles, that is plenty since few vehicles older 2004, 2014, 2019 and 2021.   What is a rip off is my 2014 sonata since a few companies like Progressive think it will be stolen nationwide so the rate on that is near as much as my 4x's the cost newer 2021 tundra truck.   Insurance varies by state a ton, so hard to compare even same company in different states premiums.    Insurance companies give a nice discount on the 2019 and 2021 newer vehicles because it has stupid safety features that I disable anyways like lane departure assist and auto dimming headlights.  ONLY thing that is nice is rear camera and if use turn signals, the car beeps at you if someone alongside in blind spot area.    adjustable cruise control following someone a set distance I have used but has also gotten me into trouble using it almost causing accidents.

[F6Dave]

If premiums actually reflected the risk a carrier assumes when writing a policy, and if traffic citations were really issued to improve highway safety, then just paying that ticket might be the ethical thing to do. But that’s not how the system works.

I pay $306 per year for full coverage on 4 motorcycles. Other carriers have quoted rates more than 3 times higher. My HOA pays $625 a year for liability insurance on some open space. Other carriers have offered the same coverage for over $6,000. Clearly the actuarial data isn’t this bad, so factors other than risk are at play. I write software for an insurance brokerage and have learned a bit about the workings of the industry. I don’t think these companies as evil as many believe, and there’s healthy competition which tends to keep them honest. But the complex pricing structure is often unfair, so you need to look out for yourself as with any major purchase.

The traffic ticket industry is a different story. For starters it’s a monopoly, and most states have rigged the system against motorists, denying due process (like jury trial and presumption of innocence) by classifying traffic offenses as civil infractions. It’s well known that local governments all around the country generate significant revenue from under-posted, heavily patrolled speed traps. In some places it’s as bad as countries where you worry about roadside bandits. Just search on Civil Asset Forfeiture.

If that wasn’t enough, now we have automated ticketing. Companies providing red light and speed cameras to local governments typically keep a percentage of the fines. Do you think that incentivizes them to generate more violations? Their guidelines for placing red light cameras favor locations where stopping is difficult, like a downhill approach to a signal. They also recommend shorter yellow light intervals to increase violation counts. This is so common that some states have banned camera enforcement, or at least created standards for minimum yellow light duration. The only upside is that automated tickets rarely add points to your license, as the camera company usually mails out the fine notice, bypassing any semblance of due process. Obviously camera enforcement is all about revenue generation, not safety.

Our right to travel freely is under constant attack. New York will soon charge up to $36 to drive in Manhattan. Cities around the country have implemented a scheme called ‘Vision Zero’, lowering speed limits and eliminating traffic lanes to make driving as painful as possible. Traffic tickets are another way governments discourage driving, with the added bonus of increased revenue. Since the vast majority of speeding tickets have nothing to do with safety, there’s nothing wrong with fighting them.

[Wizzard]

I got a ticket in Iowa from a speed camera for 100 bucks. Had a picture of my car attached so I sent them a picture of a 100 dollar bill.

[Jess from VA]

lowering speed limits and eliminating traffic lanes to make driving as painful as possible.

They did just that on two of the most used (2dary) north and south roads in NoVA.

It is painful, though at least half still do the old speed limit anyway (10pmh faster).

The beautiful George Washington Memorial Parkway along the Potomac many use to commute in and out of DC has become a nightmare during daylight hours.  And once summer hits, it is a terribly buggy ride at night, though beautiful with a full moon on the river.

There are three of these old stone bridges over the GW Parkway, and this one will tear the roof off my 8 foot 5 inch Dodge Promaster van in the outside lane, if I'm not paying attention.