Harry Homeowner (again)

[Jess from VA]

Yesterday I had 2 plumbers in to fix a water backup (from the main house drain (lateral) to the sewer.

They pulled the basement toilet (they installed a while back), and put the camera/scope/lite down there. Man watching the monitor was amazingly clear, and like watching some old science fiction movie.  The inside of the pipe may be 2+ inches wide but on the monitor it looks like 8 inches, and the distance the thing is pushed in there is a digital readout in the corner of the screen.  You could see the blockage because the camera was under water.  The camera itself pushed some of the blockage out of the way, but there were roots at like 17, 22, and 32 feet (though they ran it to over 80 feet clear out to the street).  Out came the camera, and in went the power router (snake), but only a few lengths of router spring was needed to reach the root sections.  It has a cutting head on it, and they ran it for some time. Pulled it out, cleaned up, put the toilet back, then installed me a new rear hose bib from the leaky valve inside to the fittings outside (so no more leaky). Their company pricing was laid out for me, but they were not working for the company at my house, so they charged me less than half company prices (and not including the increase for a Sunday job); an even $1K (in nice new $100 bills).  Couple of real good guys.  Glad to get that fixed (again).

I asked the 2d plumber if he rode, and he said he inherited a Heritage Softail from family a year ago, so I gave him my nice heavy leather Harley Davidson vest and 5 silkscreen Tshirts with Harley written all over them (nice stuff, but I can't wear it anymore while riding).  He was happy.

Today I had some running around to do, and when I got home, my next door neighbor was getting new gutters.  Mine are over 25ys old, and the covers crummy (from the pollen from 4 ancient overhead oaks), and full of fine silt despite my best efforts with hose and blower.  I watched them work long enough to see they know their business.  They are installing 6" gutters instead of the usual 5".  Some research shows that extra inch ends up holding and handling almost double the water that the 5" gutters do.  He gave me a good cash price.  So the hammering and screwing on the roof are going on as I type.

Hey, it's only money.   

[csj]

Hammering and Screwing... on the roof?    Well hey!

[carolinarider09]

Well, as an aside, speaking of roofs and screws, when I built our current house, I installed a metal roof on all the buildings, (observatory, garage, house, and workshop).  All metal from  the same vendor, all the same design, all the same screws.

The only difference is that the buildings have different "under the roof material".  The observatory has nothing, the metal roofing is screwed directly to the roofing members (in this case 2x4"). 

The garage has plywood under the metal roofing (don't remember if I added "tar paper") and the roofing attaches to the wood, again, with screws. In this case the wood under the plywood is 2x6 pine.

The house has OSB under the roof and "tar paper".  I used OSB because of the cost for using plywood.  Think I am now paying for that.

The workshop, has the roofing material (again metal) attached directly to the 2x6's that form the roof.

A few years ago, I noticed that some of the screws holding the metal roofing stuff, on the house, were "backing" out. 

In other words, the screws were simply "unscrewing" from the metal and OSB.  It is only happening on the parts of the roof the face almost due South (on all the other buildings the roofs are sort of facing east and west)

I find this very "interesting" and also distributing.  Interesting because I have four buildings and it's only happening on one.  Distributing because of the potential for water leakage into the house.

I did communicate with what I believe was an expert in the area and he suggested that the fix was to just replace the screws backing out with longer ones. 

Anyway, having a screw back out of the roof is something I had no idea would ever be possible.  I guess physics wins. 

Just the way things sometime roll.

[Jess from VA]

Hammering and Screwing... on the roof?    Well hey!

I knew someone would catch that.   

I am so glad I got these new gutters.  The house is in very nice condition and the old gutters looked poorly and occasionally overflowed.  I was not going to bust my ass cleaning the old bastards inside and out, or pay it done, so I paid for all new.  ($1500, and my general contractor neighbor and friend said that was a good price).  Not only top notch craftsmanship, but they cleaned up everything well, and took all the old stuff with them. 

And BTW, the covers are perforated aluminum and not the usual plastic.  And screwed down, not snapped together and shoved way up under the roof shingles.   

[TTG53#1717]

While they’re hammering and screwing on the roof I hesitate to think of what they might be “ distributing “.

[Hook#3287]

My understanding is, screws can and nails will, back out due to contraction and expansion caused by temperature fluctuation.

Another issue with the screws is the rubber gasket can dry out, crack and possibly leak, especially if not torqued correctly on install.

A couple decades ago I was considering replacing my roofing material with the screw down metal product.

Doing the research, I discovered a tool specifically made to find leaking screws.

That's when I decided against using that type of metal roofing.

[carolinarider09]

My understanding is, screws can and nails will, back out due to contraction and expansion caused by temperature fluctuation.

Another issue with the screws is the rubber gasket can dry out, crack and possibly leak, especially if not torqued correctly on install.

A couple decades ago I was considering replacing my roofing material with the screw down metal product.

Doing the research, I discovered a tool specifically made to find leaking screws.

That's when I decided against using that type of metal roofing.

I understand the comments above.  I made the decision after having the roof on the observatory in place for almost 10 years before I roofed the house. 

But, I was not aware of the tool you mentioned above.  I still see if I can find something like that, just to see if it will help.

I don't know if I mentioned it but the house has blown in insulation between the roofing rafters.  I think that also increased the heat in the area, just a thought.

[3fan4life]

I'd replace with longer screws and coat the screws with an adhesive, Liquid Nails has always worked well for me.

I had some gutter screws back out on me awhile back, I coated them liberally with liquid nails and put them back in.

They're in there to stay now!

[carolinarider09]

I'd replace with longer screws and coat the screws with an adhesive, Liquid Nails has always worked well for me.

I had some gutter screws back out on me awhile back, I coated them liberally with liquid nails and put them back in.

They're in there to stay now!

That is what I was thinking and if I was capable I would do that.  But, I don't know if I can safely get back up on the roof again.   But, I was thinking of using silicone cement.  Liquid nails never crossed my mind.  But probably a better choice. Thanks.

[Jess from VA]

When I had my 2d shed roof replaced, I could tell I had a real pro doing the job.  Just one guy.

When I saw that, I didn't pay much attention afterwards.

The finished product looked great; much better than what came with the shed new. 

I paid him and he left.

The next day I went out to the shed, and low and behold all his roofing nails were poking through the plywood roof sheeting on the inside (1000 sharpies overhead).  Like a 1/2 inch.  I was not very happy about that.  I'm not tall enough to get it in the head, but if I decided to stretch my arms I could really tear up a hand.  You just know that was the material he had on hand, and he used it without asking because I probably would have said no.  I suppose none are going to back out. 

And I'm sure not going to go around and cut them off or hammer them over. 

[Hook#3287]

You just know that was the material he had on hand, and he used it without asking because I probably would have said no.  I suppose none are going to back out.

And I'm sure not going to go around and cut them off or hammer them over.

Jess, by code, if your roof sheathing is less than 3/4" thick, which I'm sure your shed roof sheathing is, than the roofing nails are required to penetrate through the sheathing.

How much is not stipulated, but normally roofing nails aren't susceptible to backing out.

[carolinarider09]

How much is not stipulated, but normally roofing nails aren't susceptible to backing out.

I have reached the conclusion that the reason the screws backed out is because of thermal stress.  You know expansion and contraction and if they expand, the might force themselves out since there is a path for the material to interact with (metal screen and wood).   

[Jess from VA]

You just know that was the material he had on hand, and he used it without asking because I probably would have said no.  I suppose none are going to back out.

And I'm sure not going to go around and cut them off or hammer them over.

Jess, by code, if your roof sheathing is less than 3/4" thick, which I'm sure your shed roof sheathing is, than the roofing nails are required to penetrate through the sheathing.

How much is not stipulated, but normally roofing nails aren't susceptible to backing out.

This I did not know.  (and my County is code fanatical)

I think the gambrel roof sheeting is quarter inch, and the ribs are wider than 18".  I try not to get on the bouncy roofs.   

Both of these 10 X 12's came partially assembled and finished on site.  The 2-week rated shingles and no tar paper they came with had no penetrating nails on assembly.  Working on 30 years ago.  I think staples. 

[Hook#3287]

Screw heads are exposed to the sun and probably have a great range in temperature fluctuations whereas roofing nails are (or should be) covered.

I believe many states have stopped allowing staples as asphalt roof shingle fasteners.

Sheds are a different animal and are usually not held to strict code compliance. Usually.

Funny story about sheds.

A town official told about how he was helping the Building Commissioner access damage after a tornado came by in 2011.

He was checking out a heavily damaged house with the owner and they walked into the back yard.

The official said "Well, at least your shed wasn't damaged"

The homeowner said "It's not my shed"

[Jess from VA]

The official said "Well, at least your shed wasn't damaged"

The homeowner said "It's not my shed"

 

[carolinarider09]

Screw heads are exposed to the sun and probably have a great range in temperature fluctuations whereas roofing nails are (or should be) covered.

I believe many states have stopped allowing staples as asphalt roof shingle fasteners.

Sheds are a different animal and are usually not held to strict code compliance. Usually.

Funny story about sheds.

A town official told about how he was helping the Building Commissioner access damage after a tornado came by in 2011.

He was checking out a heavily damaged house with the owner and they walked into the back yard.

The official said "Well, at least your shed wasn't damaged"

The homeowner said "It's not my shed"

 

Took me a few reads to get the "jest". 

[da prez]

  I used the concealed screw method. Screws are usually overtightened. In the past , a shop I worked in had all the screws replaced.  There is a screw available with a different washer gasket.  A storm screw(?) has a different type of thread.  They will last as long as you do.        

                                                         da prez