cams are bad? need. help please (solved for now will see)

[Jackl0426]

sorry for another post. trying not to confuse everyone. short and sweet. was looking for first start while hot noise. pulled valve covers found grey metal sludge in valve cover where noise. is. cam all shine is gone from lobes worn right side less but same issue. i dont know why but only can think guy before me ran low on oil ive seen no oil pressure light come on. accept when its not running. now i guess my options are fix current issue and hope rod and crank bearing are still good. find anoter engine used and hope its ok. or sell for parts im not screwing the next guy. i need a hug from all my new friends lol. it runs makes no noise while running but cams definatly dont look  right no chrome look like bare metal. and in short order things will come apart.  guess i can tear down more pull rockers see if chrome nickel or whatever is worn off them cant see them without pulling. uggggg.

in all my years turning wrenches ive never seen cams look like these. like bear metal no hard shiny chrome or nickel whatever just dull metal looking lobes i can run my finget across them or paper towel and its grey stained.


i want to cry. just bought it fixed ass end now this.

[Challenger]

In your other post, you stated valve lash was in spec. It's hard to beleive that a cam can be worn down and valves still be in spec unless PO reset them.  Hope you get some pics of the sludge posted.

[Jackl0426]

i cleaned them already put back together and ran a bit in my garage. i can best describe it as looking like moly coat color like metal oil mix. ive never seen cams look like this grey bare metal look i can run a paper towel acrossed the lobes and get grey residue. usually even high milage cams even still have nice shiny polished hardened coating. maybe previous owner just totally screwed me. valve covers did not look recently removed. if ever. i can get pics of cams not grey sludge. yes all valves both sides within spec. maybe he did adjust get it all running seeming ok then sell it. all fluids were new. i dont know sorry upset at this point dont know what ill do next. looking at some used cans on ebay they look almost as bad. i dont know.

[h13man]

I believe I seen a pile of Valkyrie motors/parts at Pinwall.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=Honda+1500+Valkyriemotors&_sacat=0&selcontext=productType%3AMOTORCYCLE&selvel=Year%3A1999%2CMake%3AHonda%2CModel%3AValkyrie%2B1500%2CSubmodel%3AGL1500C&rt=nc&LH_ItemCondition=4

[Timbo1]

i cleaned them already put back together and ran a bit in my garage. i can best describe it as looking like moly coat color like metal oil mix. ive never seen cams look like this grey bare metal look i can run a paper towel acrossed the lobes and get grey residue. usually even high milage cams even still have nice shiny polished hardened coating. maybe previous owner just totally screwed me. valve covers did not look recently removed. if ever. i can get pics of cams not grey sludge. yes all valves both sides within spec. maybe he did adjust get it all running seeming ok then sell it. all fluids were new. i dont know sorry upset at this point dont know what ill do next. looking at some used cans on ebay they look almost as bad. i dont know.

I don't think what you've described regarding worn cam lobes identifies the clacking sound you were originally looking for if the valves are in spec. 


What's the mileage on this bike?  Cam wear could just be due to high miles.

If the PO had adjusted the valves I would think he'd have cleaned up everything before buttoning it up and not leave sludge inside the left valve cover.

And if the PO paid someone else to do the carbs it seems he's more inclined to pay someone to do his mechanical work than do it himself.  You could call him back and ask?

And if the valve covers didn't look like they had been removed "if ever" they probably were not.

There's more indicators to me that no one has been inside the valve covers at least recently.  But I could be wrong.

I'd suggest leaving the cams alone for now if the valves are in spec.  Use a mechanics stethoscope and identify exactly where the clacking noise is coming from and go from there.  If it is from worn cam or head you may be able to kill two birds with one stone.

I think you were looking for one problem and just happened to potentially find another,  possibly unrelated to the original problem.  Pictures or video would be very helpful to see & hear what your describing.  You might step away from it for a bit and regroup,  sometimes things seem worse than they are when one is stressed over it.

[Skinhead]

If the cans are worn, I don't understand why the noise comes and goes.  It should be noisy all the time.

[Jackl0426]

The noise is only when hot the clack comes from right in that rocker area. First start then it quits. The valves are in spec. Maybe two different issues. It's louder than other side after warmed. Upon inspection there is no Shiney surfaces on lobes accept for 1 lobe on left amd.2 lobes on right and they are scored. I do t k ow how or why this happened. Maybe a cam journal won't know unless I further tear down. I will get videos and post tonight. I'm getting over the initial shock of what I've discovered. Now buyers remorse as it wasn't cheap to buy.  Previous owner I never got his phone he's not answering messages. ON fb. I know where he lives but I bought it its my problem now seemed all ok its not

I'll get video tonight show u Guys what is see thanks again for everyone es help.

[Jackl0426]

video links
https://youtu.be/EUGpENhLHxI
https://youtu.be/pNXj_DdepVM

here are a couple vids. i just dont understand what happened i hadnt done anything to the engine other than check the oil. had to have already been going on when i bought it. when i pulled valve cover plenty of oil came out so its getting oil up there previous owner run it low on oil oil definatly not fresh. dont know what to do next. ideas on direction i should take? cams are definatly done. and rockers too i donts see how they could survive riding on that rough metal surface. wont know unless i pull them. if i pull cams and be lucky that the cam journals are ok.  and find used good parts then be lucky and have no other engine damage. it makes no other noise ive not seen any metal flakes or anything in oil. i dont know.

[Jackl0426]

HI all
New turn of events. i had a very nice gentleman named sandy hit me up local. he wanted to come by put a second set of eyes on it. he stopped by today and calmed me down. i had let the idea i wasted a bunch of money and who know it happens when we buy used stuff. anyway. pulled valve covers and assured me cams are fine hes been into nothing but valkyrie for many years. im a mechanic but not a valk mechanic been working on bikes for many years but this is a whole new beast. i dont know what the grey matter is or was. i will keep my eye on it. he also said he encounters the same clank on forst hot start too. i dont know maybe because its so especially hot here in phoenix will keep eye on it also. i cut the  filter absolutly perfectly clean. not a sighn of metal or grey matter. changed the oil and it looked normal seemed not changed for a long time changed oil shined her all up gonna ride once it cools off and just keep my eye on things. thank u all if anything changes will let you know i still get a slight vibration at around 54 to 56 miles an hour so i will back order a ujoint maybe it will come in at some point incase. for now gonna ride come halloweeen still way to hot here.

thank you all and thank you so much sandy for contacting me.

[Rio Wil]

I'm wondering if the one time clack is a loose pulley on the alternator.

I think you are getting faked out by the shiny/dull portions of the cam lobes. The only shiny part of the lobe is the loading ramp/peak/unloading  ramp, which is about 180 degrees of the lobes circumference. The other 180 degrees is virtually not touched by the rocker arm follower and is a dull finish. I dont think these cams have any chrome coating at all, nor do the rocker arms. So if you turn the engine over slowly (a socket and ratchet on the crank bolt) and inspect each lobe do you find the shiny/dull condition I mentioned. The wear pattern on the lobes does not look too suspect, I have a cam with 300K on it and it  pretty much looks like yours. The gray stuff might be from some one having the rocker arm assy off for some reason and I think the manual recommends using a moly solution on the bearings/lobes for reassembly. Also go by the manual for where to rotate the crank to adjust each rocker arm clearance. If the intake/exhaust are .006/.009 or close that is ok. The other thing is to verify the lobe wear to see if you get a full opening of the valve.  If you get a full opening of each valve then the cam lobes are not excessively worn. The manual describes how to do this with a dial indicator (as I remember)...

[Jackl0426]

sounds up front left when it happens i will be checking timing belts soon just because its a new to me bike i know honda recomends checking at 100k but on age alone ill check them. why i have cover off i will check everything else in there too. ill probably change belts as piece of mind for me. doesnt look all too much fun i hear its very easy to git 1 tooth off.

[98valk]

sounds up front left when it happens i will be checking timing belts soon just because its a new to me bike i know honda recomends checking at 100k but on age alone ill check them. why i have cover off i will check everything else in there too. ill probably change belts as piece of mind for me. doesnt look all too much fun i hear its very easy to git 1 tooth off.

here are the belts and materials they are made of.  they don't readily age, they are not the 60k mileage belts used in '80s cars.  They are actually Gates industrial belts used as timing belts by Honda
""Construction consists of these components:
1. Fiberglass Tensile Member — Provides high strength, excel-
lent flex life and high resistance to elongation.
2. Neoprene ® Backing — Strong Neoprene bonded to the tensile
member for protection against grime, oil and moisture. It also
protects from frictional wear if idlers are used on the back of the
belt.
3. Neoprene Teeth — Shear-resistant Neoprene compound is
molded integrally with the Neoprene backing. They are precisely
formed and accurately spaced to assure smooth meshing with
the sprocket grooves.
4. Nylon Facing — Tough nylon fabric with a low coefficient of
friction covers the wearing surfaces of the belt. It protects the
tooth surfaces and provides a durable wearing surface for long
service.""
https://www.gates.com/content/dam/gates/home/knowledge-center/resource-library/catalogs/powergripdrivedesignmanual_17195_2014.pdf

[Jackl0426]

Yes as far as above post about lobes. Yes I had never seen cams like these and was being fooled by the shiny lobe and dull backsides . We live and learn. And thank you for the belt info appreciated.

[98valk]

Yes as far as above post about lobes. Yes I had never seen cams like these and was being fooled by the shiny lobe and dull backsides . We live and learn. And thank you for the belt info appreciated.

yep overhead cams wear differently than hydraulic tappet cams and use much less valve spring pressure. for this engine pressure is only about 90 psi.
 The engine builder who ported/polished a set of heads for me, upped the pressure to 95 psi due to the higher flow/velocity and rpm potential. So due to the higher pressure I will just replace the belts at 100k.

side note check the idler pulley's since a bad pulley will destroy a belt very fast.
good luck

[Jackl0426]

Absolutely will check everything when I’m in there. Thank u for the info.