Dang car dealers

[Jess from VA]

I have a 8'4" tall Dodge Promaster 2500.  I wash it with a soft stick brush and have to use my 8' step ladder to get the roof.  I bumped one of the 5 forward roof running light lenses and made a small crack and hole; enough to let water get in there (not that I think it's ever going to rain here again).

So I call the dealer and ask if they have a replacement lens and how much.

Well, we only sell the complete assembly; base, gasket, screws, wiring pigtail, socket and lens, and it's $192.  And we have one in stock, do you want it?

I do NOT!!

You can't go up the front over that angled picture window of a windshield, so I open the rear doors and use my 8' step, carefully climb from the ladder to the roof (I'm not going to lay the ladder on my perfect paint), crawl to the front, pull the damaged lens and use some good industrial heavy gauge clear tape inside and outside to waterproof the lens. 

I'm sitting up there and the neighbor is laughing and asking what I'm doing up there. 

I'm saving $192 of my money from the dang dealer.

That roof is corrugated and pretty stout, but it is slippery as hell.  I don't mind heights at all, but I'm not a fan of slippery heights.   

[Challenger]

(That roof is corrugated and pretty stout, but it is slippery as hell.  I don't mind heights at all, but I'm not a fan of slippery heights. )



I changed a clearance light on the work van by opening my garage door, drive up till van almost touched the rain gutter. Sat on the garage roof , reached out and changed the bulb. Neighbors probably thoughtbI was crazy but at least I didn't slide off the metal roof. 

[Jess from VA]

Pretty neat idea Challenger.   

I have no garage, and my house roof is too tall. 

I love this truck, but it's a monster.  There's two old stone bridges around here that if I drive under either one in the inside lane, I'll tear the roof off.  I've never had to worry about that before.

[Oss]

yeah but you can fit your bike and a lazyboy recliner in there with room for a big screen tv

[Hook#3287]

I replaced all 5 or 6 of the leaky OEM junk on my Dodge 3500 pick up over 12 years ago.

Got them off either EBay or Amazon for cheap. Can't remember how much but seems like less than $100. For all.

Been working and not leaking since.

[Challenger]

A buddy was quoted $1500.00 to replace the mirror on his truck because the turn signal light was out and causing a CEL on dash. The mirror has a temp sensor in it for the ECU. We popped the glass out and replaced the LED for about $6. Dealers are getting out of hand.

[Rams]

I replaced all 5 or 6 of the leaky OEM junk on my Dodge 3500 pick up over 12 years ago.

Got them off either EBay or Amazon for cheap. Can't remember how much but seems like less than $100. For all.

Been working and not leaking since.

Ebay or a Salvage Yard should have what Jess needs.   I recently needed a seven way trailer plug for my (new to me) Chevy Short Bed Pickup.   The Chevy Dealer wanted $129.00 plus tax.   Got the same plug from Amazon for $12.00.   I always try to buy American Products (made in the USA) but, not when it's an obvious robbery.  The only thing missing at the dealership was the gun.

Rams

[Jess from VA]

I used to get junk yard parts all the time years ago.

I've only had 2 new cars in my life, but I keep them forever.

I just entirely forgot about junk yards.

I could still call, but I think my repair will last. 

As I recall, they are often connected with other yards, and if they don't have what you want, they may find someone who does.

[Rams]

I could still call, but I think my repair will last. 

Not to question your repair skills but, I have significant doubts about that tape lasting................

Rams

[Jess from VA]

I could still call, but I think my repair will last. 

Not to question your repair skills but, I have significant doubts about that tape lasting................

Rams

It's good stuff and will last for some time, but I'll keep my eye on it (from the ladder).  The crack was minor (no separation) and already waterproof, and the hole very small.  Just a little edge repair

I will probably call the junk yard(s) when I get some time.   

[Rams]

I could still call, but I think my repair will last. 

Not to question your repair skills but, I have significant doubts about that tape lasting................

Rams

It's good stuff and will last for some time, but I'll keep my eye on it (from the ladder).  The crack was minor (no separation) and already waterproof, and the hole very small.  Just a little edge repair

I will probably call the junk yard(s) when I get some time.   

When you've got some time?      

Rams   

[Willow]

...
I've only had 2 new cars in my life, but I keep them forever.
...

So, when one drives it off the lot it is a used car.  I have never owned a new car.   

[Jess from VA]

When you've got some time?  

Rams  

I don't know how many people live at your house Ron (or if they contribute labor), but every single thing at my house is on me (yeah I've very occasionally had tradesmen in when I had to).  House, yard, trees, vehicles, shopping, cooking, cleaning, laundry (I iron nothing), 40 minute walk (marching) every single morning, and right now 5 100yo oaks with a ton of leaves every few days.  I'm pretty busy (and I like it that way).

I get neighbors half my age stop and ask if I ever take a day off.  Almost never.  

I know you were just kidding, but....    

  

[Robert]

Amazon is your friend, found some surprising things on there at a very good price.

[f6john]

...
I've only had 2 new cars in my life, but I keep them forever.
...

So, when one drives it off the lot it is a used car.  I have never owned a new car.   

Once more you expose your superior intellect, I have bought 6 new cars over the years, I’m admittedly a slow learner!

[Jess from VA]

Well, I called all the local salvage yards and no luck.

So I followed the advice here (thanks guys) and went to Ebay and Amazon, and both had the replacement lenses (all 5 and with new LED bulbs).  And for a quarter of the cost of the dealer single assembly replacement. 

Had to be careful, some of these replacement bubble lenses are different shapes and colors, and I don't need/want to change out all 5, just the one.

So now I'm all set, and can break 4 more lenses and be covered. 

I wish Amazon checkout would stop trying to trick you into signing up for Amazon Prime (it's like a minefield);  I don't need or want it.  Because I'm never in a hurry, I almost always get free shipping anyway.

Next Wednesday I get to climb up on that roof again.     

[scooperhsd]

When you've got some time?   

Rams    

I don't know how many people live at your house Ron (or if they contribute labor), but every single thing at my house is on me (yeah I've very occasionally had tradesmen in when I had to).  House, yard, trees, vehicles, shopping, cooking, cleaning, laundry (I iron nothing), 40 minute walk (marching) every single morning, and right now 5 100yo oaks with a ton of leaves every few days.  I'm pretty busy (and I like it that way).

I get neighbors half my age stop and ask if I ever take a day off.  Almost never.   

I know you were just kidding, but....   

 

I get that - I do everything (except the cooking / loading the dishwasher) as well. And right now I'm nursing an injured right knee, so the outside work is being put off, as well as not walking (hurts too much).

Before you ask - a steroid shot in the knee did absolutely nothing for me. I'm living on 660 mg Aleve, and 2000-4000 mg of Tylenol, and 2-3 doses of Valtarin (arthritis NSAID cream) daily.

[Jess from VA]

I'm sorry to hear that Scott.

Both my folks had both knees replaced.  They pretty much had to, but neither ever regained normal use (strength, speed, endurance or range of motion).

I've been lucky with my knees; but had decades of trouble with Achilles tendons and ankles.  But all this walking over the last 2 years has seen virtually all chronic musculoskeletal issues just disappear (and 25lbs).  But when I started walking I had exacerbation of issues on and off the first few months, and just pushed through.

I've grown scary in my old age, and try very hard not to hurt or injure myself because it takes so long to come back from them.  Before every job I think... work smarter not harder Jess, and take your time, and don't do anything stupid (like climbing up on my Promaster roof).    

I'm just back from my 2.5 miles this morning, and because of the big rain here (yaay) I had to change up my normal route because there's a big low spot that gets flooded and muddy and I don't need wet feet (with incurable peripheral neuropathy) and jumping over it risks a big slip and fall.

I've always had decent results from alternating heat and cold, but mostly ice packs (in my chair).

Those pills always give me an upset stomach (and constipation, Motrin more than Tylenol).

I hope you see improvement soon.  

I ran into the ancient tiny Vietnamese woman today on my walk.  She started talking about the bad old days in her home county (she knows I'm ex-military).  Her sing song English is very hard to follow.  At least she didn't ask to move in with me again.  

[Rams]

Well, I called all the local salvage yards and no luck.

So I followed the advice here (thanks guys) and went to Ebay and Amazon, and both had the replacement lenses (all 5 and with new LED bulbs).  And for a quarter of the cost of the dealer single assembly replacement. 

I greatly appreciate the advice you've provided me in the past, I'm glad something I mentioned was helpful to you.

Rams

[Jess from VA]

Well my parts arrived today (early).

The lenses are 98% identical (or maybe just new), but the replacement units include gasket to lens, light and pigtail assembled as a single part.  So I carefully pried the lens off one without breaking anything.  Then I discovered the lens mount holes are larger than stock.  They don't provide new screws and I have no idea how the OE screws could hold them down at all.  But I had perfectly fitting small stainless washers so it snugged up tight as a drum.  

[scooperhsd]

Another thing that sucks - changing batterys in a VW.  2000 New Beetle was getting slow to turn over, so I put a battery charger on it 0 58%, left the charger on for a couple hours - up to 85-90 %. Drove to O'Reilly's (where I got it's LAST battery) - tester indicated BAD. So - $225 +$22 core charge which I will get back tomorrow

Our 2015 Golf is in because the dealer didn't get the water coming in through the Sunroof fixed last week. And the 2012 Jetta Wagon has popped up with a low oil pressure alert - I figure it is either the sensor OR the oil pump is going out - it still had plenty of oil from last week when this occured - could be a serpentine belt. Going to be a 20 mile tow this time.

[GiG]

Dang car dealers should absolutely be avoided they will try to push you into buying the top money maker POS models from Korea; “Kia America said that the drivers of  Hyundai , Kia, Genesis vehicles may hear chimes or see warning lights, in which case they should have the vehicle towed to the nearest Kia dealership “right away.” - before anyone see you driving the POS-from associated press / Washington Post; More than 240,000 cars from South Korean automakers Hyundai, Genesis and Kia are being recalled in the United States and Canada over various concerns, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said in a series of announcements.”
Buy a real car!

PS: I worked on development and testing of these cars beside the clueless Korean engineers and would not sit in one of these POS vehicles if paid - korea has No Idea what they are  supposed to be doing!   POS ! Cars Do Not belong on the road period!
POS = “Piece of Shipt”

[Avanti]

I have not dealt with a dealership or any repair shop scene 1974. If it was not done correctly I  have only myself to complain to.

[cookiedough]

agree best to NOT buy stuff at stealerships.  Wanted to buy just basic 1 inch x 12mm head skid plate bolts for kids tundra skid plate all rusted out bolts from 2012 OEM.  My local toyota dealer said have to order 5 not in stock for 4.50 per bolt.  I just said NO thanks, will order cheaper off amazon.   Called to other somewhat local toyota dealers, 2 were only 1.61 per bolt and one 2.60 per SAME darn bolt.    can dead with 1.61 per bolt, but where does the other local dealer 30 miles away get 4.50 per bolt from?  hwy robbery.

[cookiedough]

Dang car dealers should absolutely be avoided they will try to push you into buying the top money maker POS models from Korea; “Kia America said that the drivers of  Hyundai , Kia, Genesis vehicles may hear chimes or see warning lights, in which case they should have the vehicle towed to the nearest Kia dealership “right away.” - before anyone see you driving the POS-from associated press / Washington Post; More than 240,000 cars from South Korean automakers Hyundai, Genesis and Kia are being recalled in the United States and Canada over various concerns, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said in a series of announcements.”
Buy a real car!

PS: I worked on development and testing of these cars beside the clueless Korean engineers and would not sit in one of these POS vehicles if paid - korea has No Idea what they are  supposed to be doing!   POS ! Cars Do Not belong on the road period!
POS = “Piece of Shipt”

what year you work on development and testing of Kia/Hyundai?  If prior to say 2012, then yes I say NOT buy, but ever since, IMO,  they are just a tad below in quality than toyota/honda and for sure on par if not better than most of what the big 3 have to offer.

[GiG]

The engineers are completely clueless & insist they are right  despite not understanding specifications or requirements. thus ALL the Korean crap is being recalled  it is UNSAFE!!!
They didn’t just now become competent, just because you bought one doesn’t make them on par with anything ;  they ain’t. Why not get a real car?
You should go to the government & tell them to suspend recalling all the not roadworthy models because in your esteemed feeling they are somehow on par  
Astounding how you love to send many $$$ thousands to Korea  gladly for inferior crap yet whine that a dealer wants $4/ bolt available at any Hardware store @ $2
It’s all being recalled For a Reason! (Its Unsafe, doesn’t meet requirements - absolutely opposite of “on par” with sensibly designed & built real cars)

[Robert]

American, Japanese,Korean,Chinese not really much different except that the foreign manufactures honor and make a longer warranty many times.

I am disappointed in American cars since they are nothing but rebranded in many cases and the engineering is not as good as it should be.

[Rams]

I have not dealt with a dealership or any repair shop scene 1974. If it was not done correctly I  have only myself to complain to.

Enviable situation.   Technology has surpassed my capability to keep up.   So many sensors and electronics now.   Most electronic issues require special tools that I'm not willing to buy.  Electronic issues are the biggest problem I've encountered the last decade or so.  I used to turn wrenches on my own vehicles (really enjoyed doing it) but, about all I do now is basic maintenance.   If, it's an electronic issue, it goes to a professional/qualified Mechanic.

But being honest, now without a lift for cars/trucks, getting up and down on the garage/driveway concrete is a big deal when one has aging joints.   Once my shop is finished, there will be a two post lift installed.   I miss not being able to walk under the vehicle I want to work on.

I don't believe there is a totally produced in the US vehicle anymore, parts come from the cheapest vendor from all over the world (mostly China).   Heck, even my Ram 3500 was built in Mexico.  

Rams

[GiG]

Ron: Spot on!
Being involved with design & development, it’s not hard at all to predict what will go bad in the future due to incompetence. I’ve been pressured to falsify results in order to get an underdesigned product into production (of course I refused) & these same products are now under recall - should never have been produced, off shore producers often just want to get to market & protect their inferior engineering.
All my vehicles have gone 300000 miles +

At least with electronic/ sensor controller issues you can often part swap, if accessible.
There are four vehicles at home all built in USA -they are not new…

[3fan4life]

Dang car dealers should absolutely be avoided they will try to push you into buying the top money maker POS models from Korea; “Kia America said that the drivers of  Hyundai , Kia, Genesis vehicles may hear chimes or see warning lights, in which case they should have the vehicle towed to the nearest Kia dealership “right away.” - before anyone see you driving the POS-from associated press / Washington Post; More than 240,000 cars from South Korean automakers Hyundai, Genesis and Kia are being recalled in the United States and Canada over various concerns, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said in a series of announcements.”
Buy a real car!

PS: I worked on development and testing of these cars beside the clueless Korean engineers and would not sit in one of these POS vehicles if paid - korea has No Idea what they are  supposed to be doing!   POS ! Cars Do Not belong on the road period!
POS = “Piece of Shipt”

what year you work on development and testing of Kia/Hyundai?  If prior to say 2012, then yes I say NOT buy, but ever since, IMO,  they are just a tad below in quality than toyota/honda and for sure on par if not better than most of what the big 3 have to offer.

I thought that they were getting their game together after 2012.

In fit and finish they are doing much better, but their engines are now total crap!



The engine in my son's 2019 Elantra developed a rattle around 80k mi.

The noise was deafening upon acceleration but the dealer said they couldn't do anything about it because the check engine light wasn't on.

At a little over 100k the engine threw a rod.

Hyundai wouldn't honor the warranty even though the complaint had been ongoing since 80K mi.

The dealer did replace the engine through their own warranty but my son still had to kick in $2k.

When my son's car was at the dealership having the engine replaced, the dealership had over 200 cars there waiting on engine replacements.



I have several friends that own recent model Hyundai's (2016+) and they all have had or are waiting on their engines to be replaced.

Kia's use the same engines and are having the same issues.


Right now you couldn't give me anything in the Hyundai or Kia line if I had to keep it and maintain it.



If anyone owns a recent model Hyundai or Kia keep a close watch on your oil consumption and document it well.

Excessive oil use seems to be the culprit in the engine failures and is the only issue that Hyundai will replace the engine for under warranty.

[GiG]

   
   
Re: Dang car dealers
« Reply #29 on: Today at 08:45:30 AM »
Reply with quoteQuote
Quote from: cookiedough on Today at 04:59:24 AM
Quote from: GiG on November 25, 2024, 06:35:40 AM
Dang car dealers should absolutely be avoided they will try to push you into buying the top money maker POS models from Korea; “Kia America said that the drivers of  Hyundai , Kia, Genesis vehicles may hear chimes or see warning lights, in which case they should have the vehicle towed to the nearest Kia dealership “right away.” - before anyone see you driving the POS-from associated press / Washington Post; More than 240,000 cars from South Korean automakers Hyundai, Genesis and Kia are being recalled in the United States and Canada over various concerns, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said in a series of announcements.”
Buy a real car!

PS: I worked on development and testing of these cars beside the clueless Korean engineers and would not sit in one of these POS vehicles if paid - korea has No Idea what they are  supposed to be doing!   POS ! Cars Do Not belong on the road period!
POS = “Piece of Shipt”
 

“…. their engines are now total crap!


Right now you couldn't give me anything in the Hyundai or Kia line if I had to keep it and maintain it”…


Hey, Mark:

It so happens we have a mutual friend here that married a Korean woman. He was an engineer at the Proving Grounds, performing similar functions as me. When I told him at the time about my frustrations dealing with the know it all Koreans posing as engineers completely obstinate, refusing to recognize logic, he broke out laughing hysterically! Seems I touched on something he was all too familiar with. He no buy any Kia 

[Jess from VA]

Gig, my Dad was civil engineer in charge of all plant construction (and Zug Island blast furnace relines) at Great Lakes Steel (4 separate plants) until he retired, and you sound just like him.  (I guess GLS is a shadow of it's former self now).  A good deal of that steel went to American automakers in the Motor City.

He wanted only American steel and cars at our house, and gave me a very hard time after I ignorantly bought a few foreign jobs starting in HS (the only exception being my 1st car Volkswagen, which he helped me find, because it only had 40HP and he was more concerned with my right foot and safety than a German car).  But every other one I got (old and used) was nothing but troubles and headaches and repairs, and... junk.  

He's been gone now for 12 years (and I miss him greatly), so reading your posts here reminded me of him, and I thank you for it buddy.  

Zug Island (where I earned my way through college) (bought used gas station uniforms, wore them a week and threw them out rather than ruin the washer)

[GiG]

Yeah, I used to work sometimes at Zig, too, enough to convince me to finish college 
I took a lot of grief too, I owned Datsun & Toyota trucks, my friend’s dad (tool & die) would always say “you made some guy in his rice paddy very happy!” - I told the guy I bought the truck from used the cash to buy a new Ford.
My personal distaste of Korean vehicles is not xenophobic, rather ;rather; based purely on personal first hand experience, heck ask Skinhead - he knows first hand!! Also, I do not & never have worked for NHSTA  < they figure d out on their own to recall the non- roadworthy crap
Yeah, I catch myself sounding old more & more…

[cookiedough]

   
   
Re: Dang car dealers
« Reply #29 on: Today at 08:45:30 AM »
Reply with quoteQuote
Quote from: cookiedough on Today at 04:59:24 AM
Quote from: GiG on November 25, 2024, 06:35:40 AM
Dang car dealers should absolutely be avoided they will try to push you into buying the top money maker POS models from Korea; “Kia America said that the drivers of  Hyundai , Kia, Genesis vehicles may hear chimes or see warning lights, in which case they should have the vehicle towed to the nearest Kia dealership “right away.” - before anyone see you driving the POS-from associated press / Washington Post; More than 240,000 cars from South Korean automakers Hyundai, Genesis and Kia are being recalled in the United States and Canada over various concerns, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said in a series of announcements.”
Buy a real car!

PS: I worked on development and testing of these cars beside the clueless Korean engineers and would not sit in one of these POS vehicles if paid - korea has No Idea what they are  supposed to be doing!   POS ! Cars Do Not belong on the road period!
POS = “Piece of Shipt”
 

“…. their engines are now total crap!


Right now you couldn't give me anything in the Hyundai or Kia line if I had to keep it and maintain it”…


Hey, Mark:

It so happens we have a mutual friend here that married a Korean woman. He was an engineer at the Proving Grounds, performing similar functions as me. When I told him at the time about my frustrations dealing with the know it all Koreans posing as engineers completely obstinate, refusing to recognize logic, he broke out laughing hysterically! Seems I touched on something he was all too familiar with. He no buy any Kia 

hmmmm,  I can see your distaste for Hyundai/Kia, but I must be lucky, for the most part, with owning 4 hyundai vehicles and two having 140K miles on them mostly trouble free, NO worse or better than probably any big 3 or toyota/honda vehicles.  If I get 200K out of both,  got my money's worth out of those for price paid since was like 5-6K less than comparable toyota vehicle was looking at new back in 2014.  Will it go 250K or more, doubt it, but not much more chance a toyota/honda vehicle would go much further and by 200K,  other stuff starts to nickle and diming most vehicles at that age anyways 15+ years or more.

[cookiedough]

I do think though, based upon my few experiences with all vehicle mfgs, toyota,GM, and Hyundai,  that the stealerships service personnel are subpar performing even basic maintenance properly, even oil changes and tire rotations.  Had my issues with the 3 above the few times have had to use them.  As most know, checking your oil every month and changing oil every 5000 miles doing it yourself so know is done correctly, is IMO, key in achieving 200K miles on vehicles.  Only 60K more to go that being 4 more years hopefully hope I make it that far.

Problem is, what to buy AFTER that?  NOTHING made nowadays trips my trigger being new almost all going 4 cylinder turbos which I despise for long term reliability.

[Rams]

I do think though, based upon my few experiences with all vehicle mfgs, toyota,GM, and Hyundai,  that the stealerships service personnel are subpar performing even basic maintenance properly, even oil changes and tire rotations. 

It's very doubtful that the person doing your oil changes and tire rotations was even a certified mechanic.  I've encountered recent high school students employed to do such tasks at dealerships.   That doesn't mean they didn't know what they were doing or should have but, it's doubtful (in my experience) such things get done by certified techs.

Rams

[cookiedough]

I do think though, based upon my few experiences with all vehicle mfgs, toyota,GM, and Hyundai,  that the stealerships service personnel are subpar performing even basic maintenance properly, even oil changes and tire rotations. 

It's very doubtful that the person doing your oil changes and tire rotations was even a certified mechanic.  I've encountered recent high school students employed to do such tasks at dealerships.   That doesn't mean they didn't know what they were doing or should have but, it's doubtful (in my experience) such things get done by certified techs.

Rams

not sure the guy doing the oil change was a certified mechanic, but he was NOT a younger person in 30s or 40s when I went back next day chewed them out asking where is the oil drain pan plastic snap on cover that I noticed was missing that night since I looked under the vehicle was missing.  Oil change guy came out with it he said was laying on the cabinet in the shop, forgot to put it back on.  I told him he is skinnier than me, crawl up under the car and snap it in place NOW so I can leave.

[GiG]

The guy is completely competent- he knows that car is the equivalent of a bic lighter; intended to be thrown away. No sense replacing plastic cover that real cars do not  have; don’t need.
I haven’t been to a dealership in decades, & wouldn’t dream of going there for unnecessary tasks so I could endlessly whine about it! I do my own oil changes - would not dream of going to a dealer for such a minor task.
Besides, there are lube shops on every corner of every town..  what would possess anyone to go to a dealer? Tire rotation??!?? Mine rotate when I put my car in “D”  
Dude knows what he’s doing, keeping that high end Korean plastic useless crap out of the landfill    laughing his skinny ass off!

[cookiedough]

The guy is completely competent- he knows that car is the equivalent of a bic lighter; intended to be thrown away. No sense replacing plastic cover that real cars do not  have; don’t need.
I haven’t been to a dealership in decades, & wouldn’t dream of going there for unnecessary tasks so I could endlessly whine about it! I do my own oil changes - would not dream of going to a dealer for such a minor task.
Besides, there are lube shops on every corner of every town..  what would possess anyone to go to a dealer? Tire rotation??!?? Mine rotate when I put my car in “D”  
Dude knows what he’s doing, keeping that high end Korean plastic useless crap out of the landfill    laughing his skinny ass off!

never going to change your mind, so not going to try. If the hyundai dealer mechanic KNEW what he was doing, he would have reinstalled the snap on cover, he just forgot am sure?  I went to hyundai dealer for oil change since was free at the time. I have done 99% of my own oil changes since age 18 on about 4-5 owned vehicles from time to time, that is as lot of oils and filters.  I do prefer to use hyundai/kia oil filters are very good quality and about the same 6 dollar range as aftermarkets, as well as toyota oil filters for my 2021 toyota tundra.  The ONE thing toyota and kyundai/kia dealers do NOT markup to sell to those who do their own oil changes.  I do though refuse to buy both their crush washers for over 1 buck each for a basic cheap  oil drain plug crush washer when a 10pk on amazon is so much cheaper.  

Just like I will never change anyone's mind on them thinking the BIG 3  1/2 ton trucks by dodge/ford/gm are as good as my 5.7L V8 tundra.  Opinions are just that, opinions.  Until my 3 hyundais being sonata, santa fe, tucson start costing me money, I am fine driving them as-is.   Do I think my sonata will last as long as a comparable camry mileage wise or our santa fe as long mileage wise as a similar highlander, doubt it, but knock on wood should hope get 200K miles each on all 3 of them and that is good enough for me.

[GiG]

No, you can’t change my mind, go tell NHTSA to call off the recalls: “ Hyundai has announced that 125840 vehicles have been affected by a Engine recall. Hyundai Motor America (Hyundai) is recalling Elantra,  Kona and Veloster vehicles engines “ maybe  you can get a couple dollars for yours since it still has disposable shipping/ transportation protective plastic wrapping on it that normal folks throw away…