Car tires in Virginia

[Chrisj CMA]

I just saw a Facebook post that the Commonwealth of Virginia has outlawed car tires on motorcycles. Apparently a bike won’t pass annual inspection dark side.

Just a heads up. You know it has to be true if it was on the internet

Might be true

Virginia's administrative code (19VAC30-70-400) specifically addresses motorcycle tires, wheels, and rims. It outlines criteria for passing inspection, including tire type, tread depth, and condition of the wheel components.
Inspection Rejection:
Inspection stations are required to reject motorcycles with car tires on the rear wheel. This is a recent change in policy, and inspectors are actively enforcing i

[Serk]

Yup...

https://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,131384.0.html

Last I saw on it someone talked to the twit in charge and he was still fervently convinced car tires meant flaming death...

Guess there's a reason truck drivers called Virginia "The Communist State" 

[Jess from VA]

I cannot tell you how unhappy this makes me.

The principle argument (he cites) is that MC rims and car tire inside edge beads don't mate up well and can lead to a traumatic instant deflation (injury/death); like in hard fast leaning turns.  NO ONE can even find evidence of one single documented incident to support this stupid BS.

I've been riding on them for a very long time, and I do fast leans every ride.    

I believe I have a way around it, but I'm not putting it in print on a public forum.  

It's not sticking a bike tire on for the inspection then putting the car tire back on for a year.  Every year.    Which would work.

There's still the possibility that if you get pulled over for cause, an officer might notice it and make trouble, but that seems very unlikely.  They're interested in a moving violation, not safety inspectors.   

[Robert]

On many high end foreign cars this is considered normal wear. Yes the tire is worn out but if you don't look

at the inside of the tread many don't know how bad their tires really are. These tires hold up and have

never seen a blow out so I can imagine that a motorcycle tire would be any worse for wear. Again

insurance industry is calling the shots.

[Rams]

I cannot tell you how unhappy this makes me.

The principle argument (he cites) is that MC rims and car tire inside edge beads don't mate up well and can lead to a traumatic instant deflation (injury/death); like in hard fast leaning turns.  NO ONE can even find evidence of one single documented incident to support this stupid BS.

I've been riding on them for a very long time, and I do fast leans every ride.    

I believe I have a way around it, but I'm not putting it in print on a public forum.  

It's not sticking a bike tire on for the inspection then putting the car tire back on for a year.  Every year.    Which would work.

There's still the possibility that if you get pulled over for cause, an officer might notice it and make trouble, but that seems very unlikely.  They're interested in a moving violation, not safety inspectors.   

Might be time to get that second rear rim.   State inspections could be coordinated with a drive train maintenance.   While I agree on the absurdity of this decision. I do hope some smart lawyers challenge this and force Virgina to prove that car tires have a proven danger, prove through real data and accident records that going dark side is dangerous.   

A few years ago when I crashed and totaled one of my Valkyries, neither the insurance company nor the LEOs that investigated the crash gave a damn about my dark side rear tire.   One LEO even asked how I liked riding dark side.

Rams

[Serk]

On this topic, I recently found this 4 year old video and found it very interesting...

(Dude drills 4 1/2" holes in the sidewall of his darkside tire on a Gold Wing. Then goes for a ride.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q-DXo5ApQA

[Rams]

On this topic, I recently found this 4 year old video and found it very interesting...

(Dude drills 4 1/2" holes in the sidewall of his darkside tire on a Gold Wing. Then goes for a ride.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q-DXo5ApQA

Makes me wonder who would attempt that with a OE motorcycle tire.   I know I wouldn't, the few flat OE motorcycle tires I have encountered don't have the sidewall strength to maintain the rim off the asphalt much.   I have ridden a very low dark side tire to the nearest air pump, plugged the tire and went on my way.   

I tend to believe it's unlikely it's the Insurance Companies behind this but, it well could be motorcycle tire manufacturers.   Maybe both.

Rams

[98valk]

vintage 1950s style rear tire, before they pushed oval shaped race track tires on street driven motorcycles.
clearly virginia state officials think and listened to other idiots who think the physics and mechanical engineering principles of keeping a tire of a rim is different for a motorcycle and a car wheel.

https://www.chapmoto.com/avon-am7-safety-mileage-mkii-rear-tire.html

[Serk]

I tend to believe it's unlikely it's the Insurance Companies behind this but, it well could be motorcycle tire manufacturers.   Maybe both.

Many years ago when this argument was first made I contacted my insurance company (Progressive) and got a direct call from the head of their recreational vehicles department.

He flat out said insurance company caring about the shape of the tire on the bike, as long as it's a DOT approved tire, was one of the dumbest things he'd ever heard, they don't care at all.

He also pointed out early models of Boss Hoss bikes came with car tires from the factory.

IMHO it's motorcycle tire manufacturers spreading FUD and the FUD taking root in the minds of some  fanatics that's causing the backlash.

Also, some shops really don't like it because if you bring your own (car) tire in to be installed they can't make money selling you an (overpriced) motorcycle tire.

[Jess from VA]

The impetus for the rule in VA is not insurance companies or tire manufactures.

It's the state police head MFIC of safety inspections doing it because he can.  They've added a few new rules the last few years as well for MCs  (no standing up on the pegs at any time, like over RR tracks).

Serk is right about VA's reputation as an overzealous vehicle safety fanatic jurisdiction.

Gee, we haven't added any new rules for awhile, we need to come up with some new stuff.  

And there is very little likelihood this could be successfully challenged administratively or judicially.  Regulators and regulations in traffic safety are going to be given wide latitude.  And who's going to hire Dewy, Cheatum and Howe lawyers (for large money) to take this to court, and likely appeals after a trial court just dismisses it or rubber stamps it. 

The other argument this guy makes about car tires is that car tires are cheaper than bike tires.  So guys doing it are just cheaping out to save money.   Good car tires aren't all that cheap, but yes they are cheaper than outrageous bike tire prices, especially in big 180s for the Valk.

Also, it's only big heavy cruising motorcycles that guys run car tires on.  It's not like guys on dirt bikes, midsize cruisers or sport bike guys are all going to start running car tires.  Like some kind of epidemic that has to be nipped in the bud.

There's more, but imma stop now.   

[Willow]

...   
A few years ago when I crashed and totaled one of my Valkyries, neither the insurance company nor the LEOs that investigated the crash gave a damn about my dark side rear tire.   One LEO even asked how I liked riding dark side.

My experience matches.  I've had two Interstates totaled from under me, both running darkside.  Neither insurance company had anything to say regarding the rear tire.

[michaelyoung254]

Fortunately, here in the Great state of TEXAS, we no longer have to worry about annual inspections! All we have to do is go online and pay for the registration and then wait on the mailman to bring us a new sticker.

[98valk]

The impetus for the rule in VA is not insurance companies or tire manufactures.

It's the state police head MFIC of safety inspections doing it because he can.  They've added a few new rules the last few years as well for MCs  (no standing up on the pegs at any time, like over RR tracks).

Serk is right about VA's reputation as an overzealous vehicle safety fanatic jurisdiction.

Gee, we haven't added any new rules for awhile, we need to come up with some new stuff.  

And there is very little likelihood this could be successfully challenged administratively or judicially.  Regulators and regulations in traffic safety are going to be given wide latitude.  And who's going to hire Dewy, Cheatum and Howe lawyers (for large money) to take this to court, and likely appeals after a trial court just dismisses it or rubber stamps it. 

The other argument this guy makes about car tires is that car tires are cheaper than bike tires.  So guys doing it are just cheaping out to save money.   Good car tires aren't all that cheap, but yes they are cheaper than outrageous bike tire prices, especially in big 180s for the Valk.

Also, it's only big heavy cruising motorcycles that guys run car tires on.  It's not like guys on dirt bikes, midsize cruisers or sport bike guys are all going to start running car tires.  Like some kind of epidemic that has to be nipped in the bud.

There's more, but imma stop now.   

""Also, it's only big heavy cruising motorcycles that guys run car tires on.  It's not like guys on dirt bikes, midsize cruisers or sport bike guys are all going to start running car tires. ""

not true. many other motorcycle types, adventurer bikes, sport bikes, etc. are running a modern 1950s style motorcycle tire aka car tire.  there is zero need to run a '60s style race track rear tire on a street ridden motorcycle.

[Rams]

Some states that require annual inspections drop the requirement for those inspections once a vehicle is qualified to run antique tags.   While I don't know what Virginia law is, if an annual inspection is no longer required, it would seem this new requirement would be a moot point.   Most of our Valkyries have reached the age of "Antique".   In TN, it's 25 years, all three of my Valks are running antique tags.
But, to be honest, I think dropping the requirement for antiques vehicle is kind of silly.   I would think that older vehicles that qualified would be the more likely to need a closer inspection to ensure they are safe.  Just my humble opinion.

Edited:  The above is not to insulate I'm in favor of annual vehicle inspection only suggesting that if an inspection is required (by the state), then it makes sense to me that older vehicles would be more inclined to fail than newer vehicles thusly having more potential to have safety issues.

Rams

[LadyDraco]

Fender Mender has a shop that does start inspections, he said they all got the memo on the car tires..
   I did ask him ,IF I was going to have an issue?
 He said  do you have  bike rims or car rims..
I said car rims. He said  No worries..

 And I still stand on my pegs.. on rough ground , train tracks, or a get air and a stretch..
No one is going to tell me I can't do that..

I do not know of any catastrophic results of car tires on bikes.
I know more times a car tire was much safer in a  vehicle accident. Than a  moto tite they would have had a catastrophic result when the rear fender gouged the tire  where it stopped the tire from spinning.
   A moto tire would have never  stayed up and inflated !

[98valk]

Some states that require annual inspections drop the requirement for those inspections once a vehicle is qualified to run antique tags.   While I don't know what Virginia law is, if an annual inspection is no longer required, it would seem this new requirement would be a moot point.   Most of our Valkyries have reached the age of "Antique".   In TN, it's 25 years, all three of my Valks are running antique tags.
But, to be honest, I think dropping the requirement for antiques vehicle is kind of silly.   I would think that older vehicles that qualified would be the more likely to need a closer inspection to ensure they are safe.  Just my humble opinion.

Rams

in new jersey antique tags limit yearly mileage to 2500 miles last time I checked. maybe other states also? although Gov Christie did away with the ridiculous motorcycle inspections that we had. So I don't know how they are checking mileage.

[Draeger]

Here in BC there are no inspections, which is not to say things aren't just as nonsensical...

The Provincial motorcycle course and license book states that a rider should stand on the pegs when going over railroad tracks or other rough road surfaces to maintain control. And... it's illegal to stand up on your pegs when riding.

[Jess from VA]

Some states that require annual inspections drop the requirement for those inspections once a vehicle is qualified to run antique tags.   While I don't know what Virginia law is, if an annual inspection is no longer required, it would seem this new requirement would be a moot point.   Most of our Valkyries have reached the age of "Antique".   In TN, it's 25 years, all three of my Valks are running antique tags.
But, to be honest, I think dropping the requirement for antiques vehicle is kind of silly.   I would think that older vehicles that qualified would be the more likely to need a closer inspection to ensure they are safe.  Just my humble opinion.

Rams

in new jersey antique tags limit yearly mileage to 2500 miles last time I checked. maybe other states also? although Gov Christie did away with the ridiculous motorcycle inspections that we had. So I don't know how they are checking mileage.

Antique tags virtually always lave a list of limitations under each state law.  

Not a daily driver, 2500 miles a year, not more than X miles from home (VA is 250), and the general idea that they are mostly show and parade bikes.

However, actual enforcement of all these various rules really depends on being pulled over for cause (like speed), and then an officer who is up on all those rules and would take the time to enforce them.  If they were really looking to throw the book at you, that might happen.  But I think in general if you get pulled over for cause, you get THAT ticket and very likely no other.

There might be states that set up random inspection stations where everyone driving by has to pull in and get inspected.  If they do, I suppose those guys might be up on antique plate rules and enforce them.  If random inspections like that exist anywhere anymore.

I tried to find out just how many States have antique plates, but could not.  

[Chrisj CMA]

In Florida if the antique car was made in 1945 or earlier it is technically supposed to be used in parades only. But, I see cars older than that on the road and never seen one hassled. 1946 and newer there is no mileage limit by Florida but some classic car insurance companies limit how many miles you can do and qualify for their cheaper insurance

My classic car insurance (I believe) allows 2500. I have been at or under 2000 per year driving whenever I want so it’s working out ok for me.

[Jess from VA]

Good point Jeff.  

In addition to State law on antique plates, you also need to check your insurance co's rules on them (or change bike insurance companies to get less rules and/or better rates).

And actually, following the insurance co rules may be more important than following state antique plate laws.  Especially if you carry full coverage, fire, theft, etc, and expect them to pay off.  They will absolutely deny coverage if they find you didn't follow their rules.  That's how they operate.

I have never carried much bike insurance; uninsured motorists and low liability is all, and otherwise I'm self insured (no coverage if I wreck a bike).  And never been sorry in 50 years.  

[Rams]

Good point Jeff.  

In addition to State law on antique plates, you also need to check your insurance co's rules on them (or change bike insurance companies to get less rules and/or better rates).

And actually, following the insurance co rules may be more important than following state antique plate laws.  Especially if you carry full coverage, fire, theft, etc, and expect them to pay off.  They will absolutely deny coverage if they find you didn't follow their rules.  That's how they operate.

I have never carried much bike insurance; uninsured motorists and low liability is all, and otherwise I'm self insured (no coverage if I wreck a bike).  And never been sorry in 50 years.  

I whole heartedly agree.   The possibility of getting in trouble with the law is significantly less (even in an accident scenario than the issues one might encounter with an insurance company violation and not paying off when necessary.   

Recently while riding one of my Valks, I lucked into a four way intersection where LEOs were checking license, registration and proof of insurance paperwork.   I carry all that and showed it to the officer I met.   He commented after seeing my paperwork that I was riding a nice bike and he did notice my rear dark side tire.   I thanked him and was sent on my way.   While I don't know why others motorist were pulled off the road, I suspect the operators were some how not in compliance with the laws.

Rams