Clutch Fluid Issue- 2003 Valkyrie Standard - Updated With Issue.

[carolinarider09]

Several months ago I did a re-build in the bike's clutch reservoir.  

Everything seemed fine until today (bike had not been ridden in a couple of months).  

As noted below I failed to add the problem.  Here is the issue.

When I pull in the clutch lever the clutch does not disengage.  In other words, there is little to no resistance and you cannot shift from Neutral to any gear. 

I, therefore assumed that the issue is related to lack of fluid at the clutch master cylinder (I think that is the correct term. 

Now I have the handle bars tilted down probably a little too much but that was never an issue before.  But then, I never did a re-build on the reservoir before either.  

So, as part of my trouble shooing process I am going to go out and put some more fluid in clutch reservoir and at the same time reduce the tilt on the handle bars a little and do a clutch bleed as described in the link below:

https://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php?topic=58234.0

Anything else I should be wary or concerned about??

Thanks.

[Chrisj CMA]

How can anyone help you with advise since you didn’t say what the problem is?

[carolinarider09]

How can anyone help you with advise since you didn’t say what the problem is?

You know I did not realize I had not quoted the problem.  I fixed it in the first post but, the problem is:

When I pull in the clutch lever the clutch does not disengage.  In other words, there is little to no resistance and you cannot shift from Neutral  any gear. 

I, therefore assumed that the issue is related to lack of fluid at the clutch master cylinder (I think that is the correct term. 

[carolinarider09]

The video below provides the sound I hear when I squeeze the clutch handle. 

https://youtube.com/shorts/XjARxORn2Ts?si=cpXCO7jDrLjfyvwK

I have tired to bleed the hydraulic lines and I did get fluid in the container (used a pump system). 

The clutch worked for a few strokes and then it stopped. 

I guess my only re-course is to rebuild the master cylinder again. 

There is no evidence of fluid leaking out of the system.  But.....  I only checked what might have leaked onto the floor. 



The image above is a picture of the clutch master cylinder.  I have since raised the handle bars to hopefully not have the fluid so tilted.  But, the handled bars have been tilted (more than shown here) for about 20 years with no issues. 

So, I suspect a failed rebuild on the master cylinder. 

[mello dude]

Turn the bars all the way to the right, fill it and do a clutch circuit bleed job.
I would do this before another clutch master rebuild.

[sandy]

If you do another rebuild, get some OOOO steel wool. Tear off a strip as deep as the open cylinder. Put a small drill in your drill motor and wrap the wool around the drill. Lube the wool with brake fluid and run it in and out the cylinder to hone the bore. This will help the new seal to seat itself.

[carolinarider09]

Turn the bars all the way to the right, fill it and do a clutch circuit bleed job.
I would do this before another clutch master rebuild.

Yes I did that the first time but......

Yesterday afternoon, I raised the handlebars to a higher level, meaning the fluid "angle" was more flat.

It did not seem to make a difference.  Went out this AM and checked it seemed to be "corrected".  There was "pressure" and the clutch handle when I pulled it in and it seemed to be operational.  I will let it sit a few more days (suppose to have higher in the high 90's to 100 plus the next three days).  Then I will take it out for a ride and see if it holds up.

That is the only real issue. I have no idea what I would do if the clutch failed to disengage and I wanted to  stop the bike while in gear.  I have never, to my memory, shifted gears on the bike without using the clutch. 

I did, however, back in the late nineties, drive my 1996 Ford Ranger four speed stick shift, from somewhere in Florida to back home (in SC) with a failed clutch.  Just got lucky.

[Chrisj CMA]

I had a clutch like that. I removed most of the fluid from the master cylinder then forced fresh fluid up from the bleeder to the master cylinder. That restored the function.

[h13man]

I would do a gravity bleed and/or lever assist pumping but never let the fluid get to low while doing this. Do a quick snap bleed or two w/o bottoming out the lever @ the clutch slave cylinder bleeder.
I recently done the front brake system on front and the difference between the old MC parts and new was noticeable but no pressure loss thus your issue is probably at the slave cylinder end.

On a note, using a VTX 1800 MC is much easier on older and/or shorter reach hands thus allowing easier holding of the clutch engaged at stops.

Another possibility is the slave cylinder itself finally said no more. $51 rebuild parts or $104 complete.

[carolinarider09]

Just an update.  I have been monitoring the status of the system.  Over the weekend, when I checked for operation, the system work.  That is the clutch lever met resistance (by feel) and I think it worked. 

I checked it the next day and the same positive results.  I did nothing more, after I raised the handle bars and did a bleed on the clutch slave cylinder (using a pump system).  I have some concern but.....  only time will tell.

We have a couple of cool days coming up so, I will take her out for a ride. 

The clutch is once the few things I don't relish having fail.  I think it happened once before (which is why I rebuilt the master cylinder) and I remember the feeling when I found that I could not operate the clutch and there was no safe way to stop the bike.  Not cool. 

But will keep working to ensure it is working reliably . 

[carolinarider09]

Since I was/am worried about the current clutch master cylinder, I purchased a new one from Partzilla a few days ago.  Will install it in the coming week. 

[Joe333x]

I'd take you slave off and look at it. I was losing fluid but no where noticable except that the reservoir would be going well. Pulled the slave off and fluid was all caked on it. I cleaned it and replaced the O rings and now it's all good.

[carolinarider09]

I'd take you slave off and look at it. I was losing fluid but no where noticable except that the reservoir would be going well. Pulled the slave off and fluid was all caked on it. I cleaned it and replaced the O rings and now it's all good.

That was my concern as well but I saw no leakage.  Since you have personally experienced a similar event, I should now do the same thing. 

Are the "O" rings special such that I have to get the "Honda" part?  Or this there another option? 

[h13man]

Metric o'rings are different in sizing. What I can remember, the actual thickness/cross section are different enough to effect the sealing properties. You can swap sizes but I wouldn't w/o careful measuring and the use of it being compression or OD/ID sealing. Unless I was out in the middle nowhere, no choice and/or if it would interchange, then I would but in the shop, nah.

[Pluggy]

Metric o'rings are different in sizing. What I can remember, the actual thickness/cross section are different enough to effect the sealing properties. You can swap sizes but I wouldn't w/o careful measuring and the use of it being compression or OD/ID sealing. Unless I was out in the middle nowhere, no choice and/or if it would interchange, then I would but in the shop, nah.

Yes.  There are US O-ring sizes that "kinda work" on a Honda, but are not really correct. You can look at the O-ring sizes on the parts diagram and order from a source like this:

https://www.oringsandmore.com/?srsltid=AfmBOopPaMgK5vF248z1gvzuu4BQKmVEpqbhBaJauz7-BzlpWjfs7xDW

[mello dude]

I used Oringsandmore on a recent thermostat refresh job, and even though the diameter was not exactly as OEM, was close enough. Turned out fine. (Was not on a Valkyrie job)

[carolinarider09]

Thanks for the informant gentlemen.  I did not consider using the "manual" I have for the Valkyrie to find the part size.  Shows, how often I look at the book. 

Will go out to the "garage" today and see what I can find out and post it here, just in case I read it wrong.  Then order and move forward.

[Joe333x]

These are the rings you need to replace as well as the washers. You can order a new slave as well though if you don't feel like cleaning it. rubber washers 91204-MB0-013, 91209-MB0-003, 22865-MJ8-003 and new bango bolt washers 90545-300-000 x4.

[carolinarider09]

These are the rings you need to replace as well as the washers. You can order a new slave as well though if you don't feel like cleaning it. rubber washers 91204-MB0-013, 91209-MB0-003, 22865-MJ8-003 and new bango bolt washers 90545-300-000 x4.

Thank you for the data and information.

I found out that I do not have a "hard copy" of the manual but an electronic copy.  So, I did look at it  but not an in-depth review. 

Instead, since the new clutch master cylinder had arrived, I installed it.  After a few "small" issues, I got it installed and bleed and it worked. 

I have no idea about the reliabily of the install, but it appears to work. 

The only way to verify it works is to take the bike for a "ride", which I will do in the becoming week. 

[h13man]

Other than the rubber components in the MC, why would replace the whole unit? If the spring violated it during the usage, yeah but otherwise measure it and it will be more than likely okay.
And yes having tools to check fits helps.

[carolinarider09]

Other than the rubber components in the MC, why would replace the whole unit? If the spring violated it during the usage, yeah but otherwise measure it and it will be more than likely okay.
And yes having tools to check fits helps.

All I can say is that I did replace the rubber components (well a re-build kit from Partszilla sp) and it worked and then stopped working.  So, I figured rather than do a "hunt and peck" for the issue, a new "unit" would be the best choice.

Now, a more interesting piece of information.   When I was putting the old unit away for "storage" (one never knows) I found a container (I use those reusable plastic things with lids) labeled "Clutch and Brake Master Cylinder".  No date but.... I looked inside and both units were there.  

So, someone in the past I did replace both master cylinders.  I do not remember why.

Again, the only reason to replace the entire slave cylinder is that I would not have to do a re-build which might not resolve the issue.  I can watch a YouTube video but....

Anyway, I found one on Ebay with a part number of 22860-MZ0-000.   I have been trying to find the part number for my bike on Partzilla but no luck so far.