HD Woes

[RP#62]

I don't really keep up with what's going on with Harley Davidson, but I ran across this morning.
Doesn't sound good.

https://www.cypher-news.com/2026/02/the-incredibly-arrogant-suicide-of-harley-davidson/

RP

[old2soon]

    I'm thinkin h d corporate can bend over stick their collective heads tween their legs and kiss their azzez goodbye. Using the figures he used 80000 M/Cs at $30000.00 a copy meams $2400000000.00 sittin around doin absolutely NOTHING! Also thinkin even Elon Musk would feel that hit! Might could also be the Reason I'e read of the WHY of long time H/D dlrs goin outa business! RIDE SAFE.

[F6Dave]

With an ageing and shrinking target market, H-D's future has been fading for years. I'll give them credit for trying to expand their market with the Livewire and Pan America. Electric bikes make sense (look at E-bike sales) and adventure bikes are one of the few growth areas in the industry. But the H-D versions are far too expensive to draw new riders. Too bad, because the Pan America looks like a very nice motorcycle.

So the big question is what happens next: Does another company buy H-D for the name? Chrysler bought AMC for the Jeep brand and that worked out nicely. Will H-D be eclipsed by Indian? Both companies target the same market and we could be reaching a point where only one can survive.

Time will tell. And since the motorcycle selling season is short (a salesman once told me it ended around July 4th) H-D management may already have a plan. If not they should all be fired.

[Hook#3287]

HD is an iconic USA brand that relied on customer loyalty, accessories, group acceptance and out dated tech.

Their customer base is literally dying, most accessories are foreign built and they are a little late to the table in tech.

Their newest model attempts at regaining market are made in Thailand, 86ing the "Made in USA" theme they stepped on years ago.

They make beautiful looking and great sounding bikes, well once you swap out the OEM pipes.

Do I hope they can continue? Absolutely.

If they don't, who will we pick on?

CFMoto?

[Timbo1]

There's been a lot of criticism on the HD Forums about HD operations, everything from dealership closures, cost, sales volume, the direction the old CEO (Jochen Zeitz) took the company and on and on.  I guess they hope the new CEO (Artie Starrs) will turn everything around for them.  A lot of folks say their target market is aging out as not many youngsters are wanting big heavy baggers and they discontinued the Sportster which was their entry bike.

It does appear they been on a downturn of market share for several years now.
HD Q4 FY 2025

[ridingron]

I see a lot of 20-30 year olds riding them around here. I don'y know if they're picking up as many as they're losing but the future will tell.  

I always thought of them as a biking accessory selling company that sold bikes as a side venture. And yes, you can buy them with pipes as quite as any other bike.

The leaving of the old CEO (Jochen Zeitz), is one of the better things they have going for them.

[Jess from VA]

I rode an 86' FXRD (Harley's only attempt at a sport-tourer) for 18 years before Valkyries.

It went on a trailer to a CA collector.

Not mine, but exactly like mine (except I kept the fairing lowers on)

[Moonshot_1]

I think the answer to Harley's problems is designing a series of awesome side by sides. A couple reasons for this.
1. The younger customer base. They don't do motorcycles. Can't use a phone on a bike. At least not in the practical sense. So a side by side type transport should be of some interest. In town and out of town.

2. I see more and more senior citizens using these things. Harley can go after the older Harley customer base and leverage the brand loyalty.

3. A series of side by sides, one designed for urban use, one designed for road and light off road use, and one designed for extreme off road use. Customizable of course. They can then streamline the amount of future motorcycle models to a couple sportsters and cruisers.

4. Think of the new line of Side by Side Harley clothes and gear. That alone would probably fund the side by side project.

[sandy]

Maybe a Harley golf cart for the senior citizen communities.

[Hook#3287]

Maybe a Harley golf cart for the senior citizen communities.

Been there, done that.

HD had golf carts in the 60's & 70's, but I don't remember if the owners had to but newspapers under them.

HD sxs?  IDK, definitely not going to be a air cooled V-twin.

As stated, I hope HD continues on.

[Pluggy]

Americans, young and old, play video games as their primary recreation.  Gaming is up and outdoor activities are down.  That includes hunting and motorcycles.

This decreased demand for motorcycles affects all brands.  Harley-Davidson will feel the pain as it is a 100% motorcycle company. 

When a company like HD is not profitable, there is not a lot of money available to develop new products.  HD has only one path forward: get as efficient as possible to regain profitability.

[F6Dave]

When companies don't have enough cash to develop new products, they end up making cosmetic changes to their old products and hope buyers are fooled. AMC was an example. After buying Jeep they had little cash left. But with imports flooding the market they needed a competitor. So they took the AMC Hornet, chopped the trunk off, and named it the Gremlin.

[Disco]

Harley Davidson signaled their suicidal tendencies in the early 80s when they chose traditional air-cooled v-twins over the liquid-cooled V4 Nova project.  Oh, what might have been if they had chosen continuous development and improvement.   

They reinforced that message 20-25-30 years later by not expanding the V-Rod's Revolution engine platform throughout their product line.  Oh, what should have been.   

Yesterday's product at tomorrow's price.   

Nobody's fault but their own.    

[Pluggy]

the early 80s when they chose traditional air-cooled v-twins over the liquid-cooled V4 Nova project.

Hey, Disco.  One of my friends was an engineer at Harley when the NOVA project was working.  HD got pretty deep into it.  A slogan during that era was "Listen to your customers".  The old-school Harley owners said a motorcycle should be an air cooled V-twin and sound like "Potato-potato".  HD never asked the rest of us if a 4 cylinder Harley would sell.

[Disco]

the early 80s when they chose traditional air-cooled v-twins over the liquid-cooled V4 Nova project.

Hey, Disco.  One of my friends was an engineer at Harley when the NOVA project was working.  HD got pretty deep into it.  A slogan during that era was "Listen to your customers".  The old-school Harley owners said a motorcycle should be an air cooled V-twin and sound like "Potato-potato".  HD never asked the rest of us if a 4 cylinder Harley would sell.

Cool story, Pluggy.  Do you remember if your friend was pro-NOVA or anti-?  Also, I remembered that Porsche was involved with the V-Rod.  I did not remember that Porsche was also involved with the NOVA. 

[Pluggy]

HD worked with Porsche on the Nova.

My pal Rick started at HD when AMF owned it.  AMF was solid behind the Nova project. Guys knock AMF, but remember that before AMF, Harley made only 10,000 bikes a year.  When AMF sold Harley they were making 55,000 bikes annually.

The independent HD had 3 costly tasks.  Upgrade the V-Twin engine, modernize manufacturing, and get the NOVA bike developed.  HD could afford 2 of the 3.  

There were working prototypes of a Nova motorcycle, but developing a real production product from a prototype is expensive.  Add to that the new tools, equipment, and suppliers required to build an entirely new bike in volume.  

HD executives saw the popularity of their V twin and chose to develop the Evolution engine as it was less costly and lower risk.  After all, they didn't want to sink the brand new company.

[Hook#3287]

the early 80s when they chose traditional air-cooled v-twins over the liquid-cooled V4 Nova project.

Hey, Disco.  One of my friends was an engineer at Harley when the NOVA project was working.  HD got pretty deep into it.  A slogan during that era was "Listen to your customers".  The old-school Harley owners said a motorcycle should be an air cooled V-twin and sound like "Potato-potato".  HD never asked the rest of us if a 4 cylinder Harley would sell.

Cool, never heard about HD and the Nova engine, going to have to check it out.

Too bad HD didn't continue with it.

Problem with HD listening to their "Old-school" base was the "Old" part.

[Serk]

What could have been.... Found an article with some more info and pics.... and this line caught my eye:

"Harley planned a six-strong family of Novas, ranging from 400-cc V-twin and 1000-cc V-4 to a 1500-cc V-6."

https://www.hagerty.com/media/motorcycles/supernova-the-brief-bright-life-and-death-of-the-harley-v-4-nova/

[Pluggy]

When the HD executive team "bought" Harley, it was a highly leveraged buyout when interest rates were high.  The ad in motorcycle magazines said "The Eagle Flies Alone".  Actually, there was a big flock of creditors flying along, too.  Gotta pay those creditors, first.  With that large debt load, a lot great ideas were not affordable.  

The Nova motorcycle is something we would want today.  In the early 1980's, there was no certainty it would sell.  The company didn't have money for everything.

[F6Dave]

I remember those AMF days. A friend bought a new Sportster and it left him stranded more than once. With market share plummeting H-D had to do something, and a high tech engine to compete with the GL1000, CBX, KZ900, etc. made sense.

But the plan behind the buyout made more sense. Modernize, reduce costs, and stick with the design their owners (much younger then) wanted. Also, get approval for 45% tariffs on >700cc Japanese motorcycles. Reagan signed on, which encouraged Honda to move production to Ohio and Kawasaki to do the same in Nebraska. It all worked out very well, because H-D asked the FTC to end the tariffs one year early (they were scheduled to phase out in 5). By the 90s I was reading about waiting lists for some H-D models. Around 2000 a riding friend paid well over list price.

But things started changing, and H-D either missed or ignored the warning signs. Now they appear to have finally figured it out. I hope they pull off another turnaround like they did 40 years ago.

[Hook#3287]

What could have been.... Found an article with some more info and pics.... and this line caught my eye:

"Harley planned a six-strong family of Novas, ranging from 400-cc V-twin and 1000-cc V-4 to a 1500-cc V-6."

https://www.hagerty.com/media/motorcycles/supernova-the-brief-bright-life-and-death-of-the-harley-v-4-nova/

Thanks Serk, I was not aware.

It's too bad that when HD became more profitable in the 90's they didn't revive that project, with upgrades.

It looks like it would have been a contender in quality and engineering, but consumer price would most likely have been an issue.

HD kinda has history with abandonment.

Back in the 1910's when Indian was kicking their butt and eating their lunch in track racing, HD management abandoned their national race team during the season, leaving many factory racers to find their own way home.

HD also abandoned the boxer style shaft drive bike they produced on spec for the US Army for WW2.

It was basically a BMW design the Army wanted, but because we were fighting Germany, we couldn't get it from them.

When the Army promised a purchase of a large amount, then reneged because the Jeep was more promising, HD wiped their hands clean of the project.

Also, too bad, it could have been a separate path for them to expand their market.  Maybe as a Police model?

[Jersey mike]

In many ways I do not feel bad for HD, it’s been shown they’re their own worst enemy many times in the past. I also find it hard to feel bad for the owners of HD bikes, as they’re sold on an image rather than a product that is everything Harley is not.

Over the years I’ve talked to and known a few Harley owners and the story is always pretty much the same, either the bike is going in for service or just coming out of service and service is pretty much mandatory.

Harley lives by an image of leather and outlaws even though most owners are now quite the opposite.

[Rams]

HD has its own cult, similar to the one we belong to.   HD offers things the cult is looking for.   I didn’t buy into the old technology and then found the Valkyrie. Now mine are getting old, mine are all sporting antique tags.

What I find both interesting and funny is when any of mine are near other bikes, attention is always directed at the Valks.  Questions are asked and answered.   Valkyries are special.

While not the fastest, the Valkyries still hold their own.   I do visit HD outlets from time to time to see if they have anything in my bike’s colors and always hear comments about Honda stealing HD’s colors.   IMHO, HD outlets are more of a clothing and accessories store that happen to also sell motorcycles.   

When discussing reliability, many can’t believe how well designed, built and reliable our Valkyries are.   
Not much sympathy for those who chose something else but decisions have both benefits and consequences.  Ride what you want, wind therapy is still good for the soul.

Rams

[98valk]

https://www.ericpetersautos.com/2026/02/19/is-harley-terminal/

""Things are not looking good for Harley Davidson. Particularly for people who work for Harley Davidson – lots of whom are, apparently, not going to be working for Harley Davidson much longer.

According to the Milwaukee Business Journal, HD plans “headcount reductions” as part of an imminent “reset.” The article says that HD’s new CEO Artie Starrs “will be ‘addressing this mismatch head-on’ between corporate overhead, manufacturing capacity and overall operating expenses and the volumes of demand the motorcycle maker is seeing.”""