Artemis II

[F6Dave]

I wasn't sure we'd ever return to the moon in my lifetime, so it was great to watch the launch yesterday. This mission is similar to Apollo 8, where they travelled around the moon without landing. I was a young teen when Apollo 8 orbited around the dark side of the moon on Christmas Eve, 1968. I vividly remember listening to the radio when they emerged from radio silence and read from Genesis. That moment was as memorable as the Apollo 11 landing the following summer.

A friend pointed out another similarity between yesterday's launch and Apollo 8: both missions occurred while the US was at war.

[Moonshot_1]

I find our approach to space being wrong on many levels. The Artemis program is a case in point. The US is currently 39 TRILLION dollars in debt. These missions are 4+ billion dollars a pop, and the Artemis program projected cost is 105 billion dollars. If we do establish a lunar base the cost for maintaining it and supplying it is going to be, pardon the pun, astronomical.

What do we gain from a lunar program, or lunar base? Nothing as far as I can see. We’re just pouring wealth into a giant abyss. I just can’t see any real gains to be made.

My vision for a space program is one that has a high potential of bringing a return on our investment.
I see Space Stations. Large ones. Ones that would be used as manufacturing centers. So big you can see them on a clear day when they pass over head. We would build interplanetary ships there. We would build Agraspace stations there. Stations miles long and wide where we can grow and process food in space.

Build laboratories that deal with highly toxic material in making pharmaceuticals, or products that require micro or no gravity to be processed.

Eventually all being done by a workforce of hundreds. Maybe on 6 month rotations.

Building vacation destinations in space.

A lot of this being funded by private enterprise.

With this perspective we can have programs that produce value and create an environment for generations and establish the protocols and standards for living and working in space.

Get it to the point where getting on the "bus" to go to work in orbit is second nature.

We need to get life in space economically possible and generate wealth and value.
Then we go to Mars. 

[carolinarider09]

What do we gain from a lunar program, or lunar base? Nothing as far as I can see. We’re just pouring wealth into a giant abyss. I just can’t see any real gains to be made.

Before I answer your question above, I will state that I fully support our exploration of the moon and the formation of a "facility" there that will support future missions around the moon and further out into space.

So, now to answer your question above (from the link below);

"The Apollo Program was a monumental moment in human history – landing the first human beings on the surface of the Moon. However, the Apollo missions contributed more than putting humans on the Moon, it also produced a lot of new scientific data and discoveries which expanded our knowledge of both the Moon itself and our Solar System. "

Here are ten of our top Apollo discoveries:

https://www.airandspace.si.edu/stories/editorial/ten-scientific-discoveries-apollo-missions

From the link below:

Apollo: How Moon missions changed the modern world. (oh and its the BBC too)

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230516-apollo-how-moon-missions-changed-the-modern-world

Going to the Moon Was Hard — But the Benefits Were Huge, for All of Us

https://www.nasa.gov/technology/tech-transfer-spinoffs/going-to-the-moon-was-hard-but-the-benefits-were-huge-for-all-of-us/

And the bad news is that we waited 50 years to return to the moon. 

[Moonshot_1]

Don't have to go to the moon to advance science. We stopped going to the moon 50 years ago because there is no tangible benefit going there. There needs to be tangible benefits to continue to maintain and invest in such space missions including lunar missions. In my mind, I can get to tangible benefits with large space manufacturing stations funded largely by private enterprise. I see this perspective with far better chance of being sustainable as opposed to a government run space program by a government with a 39 trillion dollar debt.

Not saying we should never go to the moon. Just not seeing the point when there are way better ways to use space and gain tangible benefits.

[Serk]

I'm with this kid...

(Language warning)

https://x.com/i/status/2039847495660974415

[carolinarider09]

I'm with this kid...

(Language warning)

https://x.com/i/status/2039847495660974415

I don't have an "X" membership/signon so.... no can watch.

However, we can look back at the 1969 lunar landing and the events since then and see, fairly predictably, why we have not returned.   And our current return is still being delayed.   

There is a significant need to have lunar missions and missions to Mars.  The need is best defined by the phrase "The Earth is not room enough" (no this is not a reference to the song by the Ground Hogs). 

Why did Columbia sail to west?  Was it to find the Americas? No.  Was it to find a way to"west"?  No.

From the link below: 

Columbus felt that Almighty God had directly brought about his journey: “With a hand that could be felt, the Lord opened my mind to the fact that it would be possible . . . and he opened my will to desire to accomplish that project. . . . The Lord purposed that there should be something miraculous in this matter of the voyage to the Indies.” 

Our travels to space, to go beyond the earth, to visit the Moon and Mars are just part of the human race moving forward.  To find new things (or to quote something from a TV series) "to go where no man has gone before.  So explore strange new words, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before". 

All of these things will expand the human race.  It will provide for our future.  It will find new things that we might have once considered improbable and also show that God is always there.   

Focusing just here on Earth is not what I believe God wants us to do. 

We (the human race on Earth ) has been focused inward for fifty (50) plus years.  What have we truly found?  What has truly changed? 

If you do a search on line (which I had to do to ensure I sort of had my thoughts correct) you will find the following: 

The Space Race lead to some significant technological advancements, including the development of satellites, microchips, and medical imaging technologies, which have transformed various industries and improved quality of life. It also inspired a generation of scientists and engineers, fostering educational reforms and cultural shifts towards scientific inquiry.

[Serk]

Doh! Didn't catch an X account was required to view the video.... It was re-posted from the official White House account, here's a slightly different version of the same video, that evidently aired live on CNN:

https://rumble.com/v77xuee-moon-shot-kid-hyped-for-artemis-ii-tells-cnn-were-going-back-to-the-f-king-.html

Edit to add - Also why we need to go back - Currently we're the indigenous people of the Moon, since we were there first. We're the natives. It's ours. I expect non-Americans to give land acknowledgements to us when discussing the moon 

If we don't go back, if we don't establish a presence there, the Chinese will. The Russians will. Heck even the Indians might...

I mean, they will anyway, but we need to be there as well at the very least.

[F6Dave]

There are intangible benefits. I watched the launch with several people, and some were born after the last Apollo mission. Everyone was in awe. The younger guys asked the old timers about Apollo, and some looked it up on their phones. Clearly they knew very little about the history. One younger friend has left-center views, and I suspect his teachers few him a lot of anti-American propaganda. I got the feeling that this single mission gave some people more respect for the space program, and for America. That's worth something.

[Rams]

Can’t suggest anything to be gained but I do recognize the potential.   Everything is a gamble.  The way I see things is if we can clean up all the fraud, waste and abuse of the American Tax Payer, we shouldn’t have much problem with exploration.

Rams

[Skinhead]

If people can pay $600+ dollars for floor seats to watch that A-hole Springsteen, I think a couple billion to return to the moon is a bargain.

[Jersey mike]

If people can pay $600+ dollars for floor seats to watch that A-hole Springsteen, I think a couple billion to return to the moon is a bargain.

Amen brother!!! 



The only bad thing I’ve heard is that there were a couple issues with the toilet which were taken care of.

The astronauts have said she’s a sound ship.

Let’s see how the trip around the moon goes and reentry.

[0leman]

They showed on the tube how one of them took apart the system and put it back together.  Kind of like we used to do when something had issues.    They couldn't call a plumber.   Good crew.

[f6john]

They’re calling the female astronaut the “plumber”!

[F6Dave]

The Babylon Bee posted that Elon Musk was launching a rescue plumber flight...

https://babylonbee.com/news/elon-musk-launches-emergency-rescue-plumber-to-repair-artemis-toilet

[HayHauler]

Check this out.

https://artemislivetracker.com/

Hay 
Jimmyt

[Serk]

[Jersey mike]

I just love all the naysayers who are claiming this isn’t real and everything is just green screen photography and video. 

[carolinarider09]

Serk,

Is that a real picture from the Artemis II Mission?

I have seen lots of photos in the last few days.  Some look like I might expect, others are maybe "photoshopped" (for lack of a better term). 

I know when I have looked at the moon using my telescope (large and small), I rarely look at the full moon because it is so very bright.  But looking at the moon, when it's not fully lite, you can see lots of things like craters and mountains and the shadows from sun give these object the 3D view we all like to see.

[Serk]

Happy to report, it's a real picture, taken straight from NASA:

https://www.nasa.gov/image-detail/art002e009288/

More here:

https://www.nasa.gov/gallery/lunar-flyby/

[Jersey mike]

One of the astronauts said they were surprised that the other side of the moon appeared to be brown or “so brown”. Not sure what that means but it kind of stuck with me.

[carolinarider09]

Happy to report, it's a real picture, taken straight from NASA:

https://www.nasa.gov/image-detail/art002e009288/

More here:

https://www.nasa.gov/gallery/lunar-flyby/

 

[sidecarwilliam]

The Space Race gave me Velcro and that has been worth all that we spent.  Its how the earth is held together.

bill.

[F6Dave]

It was great to see that everything (except the toilet) worked well. I watched the splashdown, and it seemed that several boats circled the craft for over an hour, for no apparent reason. What was that all about? I don't remember that in the landings I watched 50+ years ago.

[Serk]

It was great to see that everything (except the toilet) worked well. I watched the splashdown, and it seemed that several boats circled the craft for over an hour, for no apparent reason. What was that all about? I don't remember that in the landings I watched 50+ years ago.

They always take their time extracting the crew from a returned capsule, but especially since this was a test mission they took their time scanning for toxic fumes (Wanted to make sure they didn't survive reentry, open the door then die because the spaceship was leaking a toxic gas), scanning for structural stability and condition of the spacecraft as well as preparing the dive team and the "Front Porch" team (The inflatable they attached to the spaceship for the crew to get on to)

There was also a medical evaluation of the crew inside the spacecraft by medics before they began the extraction.

[Rams]

Did anyone see any video of the capsule being recovered?

I watched as much coverage as possible and have looked for such coverage/video of that capsule being air lifted to a ship but no joy there.

Rams

[Serk]

Did anyone see any video of the capsule being recovered?

I watched as much coverage as possible and have looked for such coverage/video of that capsule being air lifted to a ship but no joy there.

Rams

Interesting observation... Best I was able to dig up was a training photo of them practicing with a practice Orion spacecraft a few months ago... I'll keep my eyes open for something of the actual recovery...



https://www.navy.mil/Press-Office/News-Stories/display-news/Article/4452625/uss-john-p-murtha-to-support-nasas-artemis-ii-mission/

[Jersey mike]

What amazes me is the fact the capsule can re-enter the atmosphere bottom first and not go into an uncontrollable tumble.

Out of curiosity, do NASA’s rocket boosters return to earth like SapceX’s? When we watched the launch they showed separation but I don’t remember anything about their return.

[Serk]

Out of curiosity, do NASA’s rocket boosters return to earth like SapceX’s? When we watched the launch they showed separation but I don’t remember anything about their return.

Sadly no... SLS boosters are disposable, one and done...

While I cheer anyone going to space, and I cheered loudly for Artemis II, this was one of my biggest issues with this mission.

The argument was they could recycle and repurpose leftover Shuttle designs since Starship (Or New Glenn) aren't ready for prime time yet, Falcon, or even Falcon Heavy don't have enough thrust to meet mission goals. (And only Falcon is human rated.)

[f6john]

I have to say I haven’t understood the hype for this mission. It mirrors what has already been accomplished 50 years ago and that’s sans the actual moon landing, liftoff, and rejoining the mothership for the return. I haven’t understood thought the space station and the Shuttle missions much more of an accomplishment. I may be missing the point.

[Serk]

I have to say I haven’t understood the hype for this mission. It mirrors what has already been accomplished 50 years ago and that’s sans the actual moon landing, liftoff, and rejoining the mothership for the return. I haven’t understood thought the space station and the Shuttle missions much more of an accomplishment. I may be missing the point.

We haven't gone beyond LEO (Low Earth Orbit) since 1972. (Since I was in diapers, and I've been eligible to join AARP for nearly 5 years now.)

There's been at least 2 generations of engineers, designers, builders, etc. etc. etc. that have come and gone since we last did that. The institutional knowledge that was lost is enormous.

The Shuttle, ISS and many other things are indeed major accomplishments, but anything involving leaving Earth orbit is just another level above even those.

We're having to re-learn what we've forgotten so we can go back to the moon, build a permanent base on the moon and eventually use that as a launching point to Mars... and beyond, so we can make consciousness interplanetary.

And making consciousness interplanetary is a long term imperative...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvwYfBbioLI

All of this.... was for nothing... unless we go to the stars.