skromfols
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Posts: 65
You only go around once
Valley Springs, Calif
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« on: March 06, 2010, 08:30:48 AM » |
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Yep, California's finest caught me exceeding the posted limit. I was doing 70 in a 55 mph zone. It was clear, bright sun, out in the middle of nowhere, no traffic, and he zapped me. I was coming out of the Sierras and it was a long steep incline, and I'm sure they use that area as easy pickings. The officer wrote the ticket and while it said I was exceeding the posted speed limit, he forgot to put the speed he claimed I was doing on the citation. About a week later I got a notice in the mail amending the citation to show my speed. Since I'm quite a ways from where the trial would be held I've asked for a Trial by Written Declaration. I've also asked for a copy of the officers notes, which hopefully will be helpful to me. If anyone has been successful in disputing a speeding ticket and has any suggestions I would appreciate hearing from you. I have a few weeks before I have to submit my documents, so please drop me a note if you have information that would be helpful. skromfols@hotmail.comThanks
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Stan
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Ratdog
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« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2010, 09:02:34 AM » |
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ran me more than the citation amount the last time I was cited, but my record remained clean. And... due to weather, I did not have my Valentine1 up and ready to alert me.
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Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you. - Benjamin Franklin. If it ain't Zesty, it's only a two-tone. 
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JetDriver
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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2010, 09:50:28 AM » |
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It was clear, bright sun, out in the middle of nowhere, no traffic, and he zapped me.
I'm no lawyer, and when I had the opportunity to try this, I chose to decline and just pay the ticket, but.... In Ohio, and I think in all states, technically there are no speed limits. You are to drive (ride) at a reasonable and appropriate speed for the conditions. The state is burdened with determining what is reasonable and appropriate for most conditions, and then putting up a speed sign. But this predetermined speed doesn't necessarily fit every situation. For example, if you are on a freeway with a posted speed sign of 70 mph, but it's white-out conditions with icy roads and gusty blowing snow and you choose to travel at 70 mph, you can be cited for traveling too fast for conditions. If you are "out in the middle of nowhere, no traffic," one might argue that the speed you were traveling was not unreasonable or inappropriate. On tickets in Ohio, there is a box the officer can check that is labeled, "unreasonable for conditions," or something to that effect. My officer did not check that box on my ticket. It's a thought. If I was going to press that, I'd probably get a lawyer involved to help me.
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TearlessTom
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« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2010, 09:52:46 AM » |
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Unless you have a terrible record here you can apply to go to Driving School for most 1st time offenses. The cost of the school is about the same as the ticket but you are not assessed points on your licenses.
Benefits of Driving school in some cases in can actually help you on your insurance rates.
Fighting a speeding ticket is an up hill battle all the way and by your own admission you were speeding.
Speaking as an ex-cop; most cops and local judges have a good repore and deal with each other often. Unless you had a cop that the judge hates, IE one that has a reputation of making questionable arrest or citations your goose is cooked.
As for the cop using easy hunting grounds well there is too side to that coin. The reason it is easy is because people abuse the location in question and/or do stupid things IE grossly exceeding the speed limit. (squids) Or making other bone head mistakes.
Unless you got the occasional power hungry cop he was not trying to hurt you but to protect you and others from yourself.
Do cops have quotas.? Either official or unofficial ... you bet your bottom dollar they do. Do they like it? Vast majority DO NOT like writing tickets and would much rather be chasing REAL bad guys so the proverbial baited field is Where he can quickly get his quota out of the way, and back get back to what he really wants to be spending his time on.
I would recommend you just pay the ticket and go on with your life. Life is too short to waste it on petty stuff.
Tom
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« Last Edit: March 06, 2010, 09:56:25 AM by TearlessTom »
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skromfols
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Posts: 65
You only go around once
Valley Springs, Calif
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« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2010, 11:42:06 AM » |
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Tom, You're absolutely right, I could just pay the fine and move on, but I won't. As you admitted, police officers have a quota, and in some instances they go to areas where they know that the posted limit is not really necessary, so they'll get people who are driving well within the road conditions, but not within the posted limit. I also know a few police officers, and they've admitted that they used to be out and about on the highways in cars painted black and white, easily recognizable , to remind people to drive safely. Now the cruisers are stealth missiles, small, hidden lights, painted civilian colors, so they don't stand out, which gives them a better opportunity to collect fines. Yes, I was exceeding the posted limit, but I was driving safely, with no traffic around me, sober, alert and with a safe, well maintained vehicle. Since Traffic schools are a joke and cost as much as the ticket, I think I'll take my chances on contesting the citation. But thanks for your response. I respect your opinion.
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Stan
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JetDriver
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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2010, 12:18:41 PM » |
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I would recommend you just pay the ticket and go on with your life. Life is too short to waste it on petty stuff.
Even though I had thought about using my defense offered above, I eventually came to the point where I agree with Tom. Life is too short and I don't want the anger/defensive attitude inside me for however long it would take to fight it. I do have a question for you though Tom, and I mean no offense and am not making judgments. I have seen on this site and others where police officers join in and talk about how much fun it is to hit the twisties scraping pegs and the whole bit, and then put on their uniforms and write tickets for those of us doing the same thing. As I write this, I realize maybe I am being judgmental, but still curious. Maybe you answered it with saying the officers are expected to write some tickets and grinding pegs are a pretty good one. I'm just curious about your opinion, not angry.
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fudgie
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Posts: 10613
Better to be judged by 12, then carried by 6.
Huntington Indiana
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« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2010, 01:43:25 PM » |
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Quota, yes. Around here they call it '5 and dive!' Write 5 tickets and go hide somewhere till shift ends. Partners hubby is a cop..... Most of the time if you go to court they will knock it down, just cause you showed up. Cant hurt, might help, and hell of a crowd pleaser. I'd do it. I was doing 68 in 55 per ISP. So was everyone else!  I got out of it. Get a radar detctor, it will help. 10 yrs of having it on the Valk I only got pulled over once. Music was to loud. 
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 Now you're in the world of the wolves... And we welcome all you sheep... VRCC-#7196 VRCCDS-#0175 DTR PGR
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LandElephant
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2010, 02:03:22 PM » |
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Although you are going to do what you want, I go hit in California for speeding one time, took the choice of going to Defensive driving school (I believe was $99). Took the school on line sitting in my underwear with a beer in hand, and that voided the ticket cost (I believe was $150) and got a 15% discount on my auto, motorcycle, and RV insurance for the next three years.
It takes six weeks for the ticket to make it to the court and you could be done and gone and riding.
Just what happen to me in the beautiful State of California. The Land of fruits and Nuts.
Charlie Land Elephant
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Jess Tolbirt
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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2010, 03:58:14 PM » |
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he didnt put down the speed on the ticket you were driving? then he sends you an ammended ticket? with the speed on it? did you sign the ammended ticket? they just cant send you another ticket out of the blue..can they? tell the judge you were speeding,,,60 in a 55,,, but the officer said i was doing 70 after he went home and decided to send me a second ticket...
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skromfols
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Posts: 65
You only go around once
Valley Springs, Calif
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« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2010, 04:21:16 PM » |
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Jess, my thought is to tell the judge that since the officer made a mistake on the ticket that he certainly wasn't infallible, so he might have been mistaken when he wrote out the amended ticket later. I refuse to admit to speeding, even 5 mph over, because that's grounds for being found guilty. I'll just plead not guilty and point out the mistake. Hopefully it will help.
Elephant, don't you like fruits and nuts? Most elephants do.
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Stan
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TearlessTom
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« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2010, 04:56:06 PM » |
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TearlessTom
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« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2010, 05:24:23 PM » |
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I would recommend you just pay the ticket and go on with your life. Life is too short to waste it on petty stuff.
Even though I had thought about using my defense offered above, I eventually came to the point where I agree with Tom. Life is too short and I don't want the anger/defensive attitude inside me for however long it would take to fight it. I do have a question for you though Tom, and I mean no offense and am not making judgments. I have seen on this site and others where police officers join in and talk about how much fun it is to hit the twisties scraping pegs and the whole bit, and then put on their uniforms and write tickets for those of us doing the same thing. As I write this, I realize maybe I am being judgmental, but still curious. Maybe you answered it with saying the officers are expected to write some tickets and grinding pegs are a pretty good one. I'm just curious about your opinion, not angry. Well this is what I would do. I would stop someone if they were blatantly speeding or driving recklessly and a danger to other. If they were acting decently when stopped and I thought that a good talking to would do the trick then that is what they got along with a delay while being stopped that would erase any time they gained while speeding. If not then they got a ticket. When I needed to enforce that speed limits I would just get in the left lane and drive the speed limit. I believe this a common practice as I have seen my brother-in-law who is a Washington State Trooper do the same thing when I was doing a ride along with him. In order to get my unofficial quota I would wait till dark then find a quick mechanical violation (usually a burned out head light or tail/brake light.) We called them FIX IT TICKETS. The person had one week to fix the violation and take it by any police precinct for an inspection along with the ticket. If it was repaired then the ticket was voided. The benefit of this was three fold. 1.I made my boss happy and made my unofficial quota. 2.It got a unsafe vehicle back to requirements. 3. The recipient only had to pay the cost of maintaining their vehicle IE a $2.00 tail light bulb vs $150 fine. Everyone wins and I got to spend my time chasing bad guys. However their are always exceptions. My pet peeve when vehicles were involved were DUI's They got no leniency at all. Tom
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TearlessTom
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« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2010, 05:32:50 PM » |
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Tom, You're absolutely right, I could just pay the fine and move on, but I won't. As you admitted, police officers have a quota, and in some instances they go to areas where they know that the posted limit is not really necessary, so they'll get people who are driving well within the road conditions, but not within the posted limit. I also know a few police officers, and they've admitted that they used to be out and about on the highways in cars painted black and white, easily recognizable , to remind people to drive safely. Now the cruisers are stealth missiles, small, hidden lights, painted civilian colors, so they don't stand out, which gives them a better opportunity to collect fines. Yes, I was exceeding the posted limit, but I was driving safely, with no traffic around me, sober, alert and with a safe, well maintained vehicle. Since Traffic schools are a joke and cost as much as the ticket, I think I'll take my chances on contesting the citation. But thanks for your response. I respect your opinion.
I understand your frustrations completely as I have gotten a few speeding tickets myself. But if you can put aside your frustration and anger the bottom line is you were speeding and that is all that the judge is going to care about. Emotion has no place in a courtroom. (found that lesson out all to often in divorce court) Good Luck, let me know how this come out. Tom
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BamaDrifter64
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« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2010, 06:45:27 PM » |
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Tom, You're absolutely right, I could just pay the fine and move on, but I won't. As you admitted, police officers have a quota, and in some instances they go to areas where they know that the posted limit is not really necessary, so they'll get people who are driving well within the road conditions, but not within the posted limit. I also know a few police officers, and they've admitted that they used to be out and about on the highways in cars painted black and white, easily recognizable , to remind people to drive safely. Now the cruisers are stealth missiles, small, hidden lights, painted civilian colors, so they don't stand out, which gives them a better opportunity to collect fines. Yes, I was exceeding the posted limit, but I was driving safely, with no traffic around me, sober, alert and with a safe, well maintained vehicle. Since Traffic schools are a joke and cost as much as the ticket, I think I'll take my chances on contesting the citation. But thanks for your response. I respect your opinion.
If you were speeding (i.e., driving at a speed above the posted limit), then you're guilty of speeding. I think in your first post you said you were doing 70 in a 55. That's speeding. All the rationale you've given for fighting it is simply trying to put the guilt on other parties. Man up and accept the fact that you broke the law and got caught. That's what's wrong with our society - it's always someone else's fault. Just my .02. Dave
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2010, 07:16:54 PM » |
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You have never mentioned whether you were hit with radar or lidar (you said zapped). If so, I'd take the goofy driver's school and make the ticket disappear. I did this twice in CA when stationed there in USAF, and each time the ticket never appeared on my record, and more importantly, was never known by my insurance co..... which, over time, can cost you more than the ticket or the class (especially if you are unlucky enough to get another one in the next year or two).
The amended ticket is little to no defense (that I'm aware of). If the officer can/will swear he had you on radar or lidar at the speed indicated on the amended ticket, and you submit a written argument of some sort, I predict a conviction, with points, and an insurance hike. Take the class; I did twice (cause I was speeding), and I was a lawyer at the time. JMHO
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Brad
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« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2010, 08:30:27 PM » |
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I don't think you have a prayer. California is flat broke. I got caught speeding last summer on I-80 in the Sierra as well. Nothing on the ticket was right. My name misspelled, licence plate number wrong, location of offence wrong. Went to court to see about getting off due to all the mistakes on the ticket. Judge asked one question....did the officer hand you the ticket? Yes he did sir...then you can pay the ticket to the clerk or I can add court costs on and you can pay the clerk. I think I would like to pay the clerk sir. The county gets a cut as does the State and they want your money. They have been hitting the tickets real hard to help pay the bills. On another note your signature on the ticket is only a promise to appear....not an acceptance of the ticket.
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MP
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Posts: 5532
1997 Std Valkyrie and 2001 red/blk I/S w/sidecar
North Dakota
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« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2010, 05:46:35 AM » |
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Let's review: You said you were going over the speed limit, you got a ticket, and now you think you should get off scott free?
Sounds like too much of our society today, no responsibility for one's own actions.
Be a man, pay for YOUR mistake, the cop did not make a mistake. YOU were breaking law by your OWN admission.
MP
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 "Ridin' with Cycho"
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fudgie
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Posts: 10613
Better to be judged by 12, then carried by 6.
Huntington Indiana
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« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2010, 07:17:36 AM » |
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I camped next to a BMW rider from KS last rally. He got nailed in NE. Cop told him if he got online and took some kind of test, the ticket would disappear. He asked the cop, then why give me a ticket. Cause he had to. ???
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 Now you're in the world of the wolves... And we welcome all you sheep... VRCC-#7196 VRCCDS-#0175 DTR PGR
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1fastbob
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« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2010, 07:23:06 AM » |
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Pretty simple....If you WERE speeding, pay the ticket, don't waste the court's time and quit your pi$$ing and moaning! If you WERE NOT speeding then fight the ticket. Actions have consequences.
As a former Deputy Sheriff we did not have quotas and many times a violator's attitude determined if I issued a summons or a warning.
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I'm on somebody's list! BFD!
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sheets
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« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2010, 07:57:14 AM » |
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... In Ohio, and I think in all states, technically there are no speed limits. You are to drive (ride) at a reasonable and appropriate speed for the conditions. The state is burdened with determining what is reasonable and appropriate for most conditions, and then putting up a speed sign. But this predetermined speed doesn't necessarily fit every situation...
Speed sign configured with white background and black legend = Regulation Speed sign configured with yellow background and black legend = Recommendation
Ymmv,
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fudgie
Member
    
Posts: 10613
Better to be judged by 12, then carried by 6.
Huntington Indiana
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« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2010, 08:14:42 AM » |
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There are also signs here in Ind that say 'speed limit 70' and others that read 'Max Speed Limit 70'. So I take it you can do over 70? ???
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 Now you're in the world of the wolves... And we welcome all you sheep... VRCC-#7196 VRCCDS-#0175 DTR PGR
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FryeVRCCDS0067
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« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2010, 10:38:42 AM » |
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Here in my part of Indiana you can pay extra to keep it a ticket off your record. It’s done via a form you receive through the mail shortly after being issued the ticket. It pretty well doubles the cost of the ticket but it’s all about money anyway.
In our neighboring city of Terre Haute they drop the speed limits from 45 to 30 on certain busy overpasses. Then setup speed traps and generate a ton of revenue I’m sure. That being said, nearly all the cops I know and have known have been good people doing a tough job. The laws they have to enforce and official or unofficial quotas they have to meet are no fault of theirs.
Speed sign configured with white background and black legend = Regulation Speed sign configured with yellow background and black legend = Recommendation
Concerning the above quote. My son Joe took some LEO classes in collage and told me he was taught the same thing in class but I still wouldn't gamble on it.
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"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And... moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.'' -- Barry Goldwater, Acceptance Speech at the Republican Convention; 1964 
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big turkey
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« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2010, 02:15:23 PM » |
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Ah Heck I got just ticket for your ticket problem.
Uesed it twice.
Cop was the one that let the secret out.
Pay one (1) Dollar over on the fine by mail.
They will not taek the tiem or money to send that dollar back to you.
you lose the money and your record for insurance and state points on your license remain clean.
Did it twice and my Insurance Went Down 30 bucks this year. It takes 3 years to work these points
off your license so apparently for me anyway it is working.
This only works fro speeding tickets.
Might be worth a try and you don't have to pay court costs to keep it off your license.
And vacation from work to attend the court apperance.
Traffic school is cool but you still lose the buckaroos.
Al
AL
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fstsix
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« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2010, 02:34:46 PM » |
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Well.....maybe you were speedin maybe the officer was doing a good job.....not pointin fingers BUT!! sounds like that Speedometer needs to be takin to a shop and have that calibration checked ya never know?, before ya go to court  Now in Rhode Island 55 is just a suggestion lol....we are the worst drivers in America  so take my advise at your own risk LOL!!!! http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Insurance/Insureyourcar/P151501.asp
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TearlessTom
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« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2010, 07:28:26 PM » |
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Now in Rhode Island 55 is just a suggestion lol....we are the worst drivers in America Don't get me wrong there are bad drivers everywhere but in recent history come to think of it, it was a Rhodie that I desperately wanted to pull through the window of his pickup truck and beat him to a pulp. We were vacationing in Tenn. near Gatlinburg spending the week riding the Blue Ridge mountains. I was following my wife, Me on my Valk, her on her Harley. I was following at a safe distance. There were 3 lanes of traffic all running about the same speed so lane shifting would get you no where fast. This yahoo 1st cut me off which didn't bother me as I am a fairly experienced rider and I could see him coming But he then started to tailgate my wife on her bike. If for some reason she went down he would have driven right over her. There was no way he could avoid her. After giving him ample time to change lanes and get from behind her I went to the far right onto the emergency lane (as I said traffic was heavy and everyone was going the same speed.) Goosed the Valk to get in front of him, then moved back next her he in her lane and slowed down so he would be forced to back off of her. At the next light I moved over so he would come up next to me and I advised him as politely as I could that she was a new rider and he needed to back off. He shrugged his shoulders and then began to tailgate someone else. Then there was an old woman, (another Rhodie) as I was heading for work. It is 4 lanes across the causeway, two in either direction. I was riding my ST1300. I guess this woman hated fast bikes or something I don’t have a clue about why she did what she did. I was running the speed limit in the right lane. Anyway she repeatedly I mean 5-6+ times over about 4 miles tried to pull into my lane next to me. (Do y’all lane split up there) The whole time she was looking right at me. Maybe she wanted to ask directions and thought that because I was on a quiet bike I could hear her (even though her window was up) she was talking to me. I repeatedly would slow down -20’s to let her go she would slow down too. Speed limit is 55. I speed up she would speed up. I‘d kick it in the A** to get some distance between us and even past a few cars. She did the same. She was determined to drive next to me in my lane. Finally the two fellow drivers in cars that I had passed trying to get away from her who were witnessing all this formed a rolling blockade and let me by then held her back until I got a safe distance away. Needless to say I didn’t see the 1st cop on the way to work that day but I did call it in to them as a BOLO and gave them her vehicle description. Tom
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fudgie
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Better to be judged by 12, then carried by 6.
Huntington Indiana
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« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2010, 05:57:40 AM » |
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Tom i'da stuck a boot in her door!  Get one of these like my HD bud has. He has taken off some mirrors for the same reason. His road cop. 
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« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 06:09:09 AM by fudgie »
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 Now you're in the world of the wolves... And we welcome all you sheep... VRCC-#7196 VRCCDS-#0175 DTR PGR
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SgtBunny
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"Don't be a Lemming!" - MCC
Kingwood, WV
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« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2010, 06:37:23 AM » |
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I carry marbles in my pocket. Toss a couple over the shoulder really gets them to back off quick.
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VRCC #29625 '98 Tourer 
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Hoser
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child of the sixties VRCC 17899
Auburn, Kansas
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« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2010, 06:48:49 AM » |
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"When I needed to enforce that speed limits I would just get in the left lane and drive the speed limit. I believe this a common practice as I have seen my brother-in-law who is a Washington State Trooper do the same thing when I was doing a ride along with him."
In Kansas it is illegal to drive in the left lane on a four lane highway,unless passing. I would assume that applys to troopers too? ??? hoser
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I don't want a pickle, just wanna ride my motor sickle  [img width=300 height=233]http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/
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TearlessTom
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« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2010, 07:59:12 AM » |
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Tom i'da stuck a boot in her door!  I carry marbles in my pocket. Toss a couple over the shoulder really gets them to back off quick.
The marbles are not a bad idea since she was obviously missing a few. But seriously I didn't want to piss off an old lady. Haven't y'all seen the video of the black guy that harrassed the old white man on the bus. Don't mess with old folks. They are to old to fight and to slow to run so they will just hurt/kill you if threatened.  Tom
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fudgie
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Better to be judged by 12, then carried by 6.
Huntington Indiana
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« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2010, 09:59:18 AM » |
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"When I needed to enforce that speed limits I would just get in the left lane and drive the speed limit. I believe this a common practice as I have seen my brother-in-law who is a Washington State Trooper do the same thing when I was doing a ride along with him."
In Kansas it is illegal to drive in the left lane on a four lane highway,unless passing. I would assume that applys to troopers too? ??? hoser
I think folks from Mi are taught to drive in the left lane here. 
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 Now you're in the world of the wolves... And we welcome all you sheep... VRCC-#7196 VRCCDS-#0175 DTR PGR
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BradValk48237
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« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2010, 10:02:28 AM » |
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I carry a bunch of all those old standard nuts, bolts and washers you don't use much anymore..... cheaper than marbles.... And drivers are used to parts fallen off Harleys so much they won't even think you did it on purpose!!!!  B
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fstsix
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« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2010, 12:13:46 PM » |
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Tearless Tom, i moved up here back in 94, i am a Southern boy, i just got home and what you and you wife experienced i go through every day here  so the first year i was here i am getting tailgated hard by some jerk about a mile form my home, and coming from 34 years in So central Los Angeles if someone did that to me you would see Gun smoke out my truck, i hear ya, i have a hard time up here still, but here is the problem? that guy that was tailgating me in this story i gave him the IQ finger lost my composure lol well he follows me home, and it was my Sons Little league Coach and neighbor, Ooops , so my son got put back on the Batting lineup that week but what can i say lol!! small town try to wave now with all 5 fingers 
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