hydrolock

[N0tac0p]

wed night ran like a champ, go to start thursday......CLUNK     due to other issues, felt i needed to bench test the starter..... did that on Fri, start OK.  removed plugs and center piston (clutch side) spewed gas and left a pretty good puddle.  cleaned up, vented and reistalled starter.  sat, turned over engine blew out cylinders, everything "sounds" fine.  just worried about all the talk of gears breaking, valves bending, etc.

do you think I should be able to turn on the petcock for a few minutes/hours and see if it repeats itself.  plugs still out, so i wshould be able to turn it over and see if raw gas comes out agin? 


thoughts, dangers, fixes?

[Spirited-6]

Hey Guy. I would think you should check with petcock "OFF" to see if you have a bad one. 

[Wildman]

It takes a bad petcock and, and,  a bad float valve to fill a cylinder.

You might want to change the oil it may be fuel contaminated.

[N0tac0p]

good point, i'll do that 2night.  it has been off for 3-4 days, and I blew it out so it should not have raw gas.

[N0tac0p]

Yup, i will change the oil when i get the problem fixed, no sense yet as it will just may do it again.

PS i just put in 4 qts of amsoils and a filter, wah!!!!!

[roboto65]

I would pull the hose on your petcock with the valve off of course if it leaks then there is your problem but from what you have said it sounds like you have a float valve stuck that is letting the fuel in the cylinder so you probably will have to pull the carbs and fix that and the petcock because they are both contributing to the Hydrolock!!

[N0tac0p]

Argggh, sounds like time and money and with riding season here!

[roboto65]

Well on the money part yeah I hear ya but the time one day job maybe 2 you will Thank yourself later because you do NOT want the other choice and that is broken stuff !!!!!

[Rocketman]

Sounds like you got away with one.  Not having broken anything the first time, now you get the chance to fix  the problem before the symptoms get worse.
Step one:  Until you get this fixed, NEVER start it without checking for liquid fuel in the cylinders.  A quick and dirty check:  Put 'er in fifth gear.  Release clutch.  Roll forward.  You should feel resistance when you pass through a compression stroke, but not overwhelming resistance.  If you feel overwhelming resistance, clear it by doing the same thing with the spark plugs removed.
Performing this check prior to starting will keep you from breaking things.  It must be done every time when you suspect you have leaky valves, which you now do.
Step two:  FIX IT.  Rebuild the petcock, or replace with a pingel.  Additionally, pull the carbs.  Bench test the float needles by:  1) Set it level on a bench, with a clean paper towel underneath. 2) Hook up a free-flowing fuel source to it.  3) let it sit for a minimum of ten minutes.  4) check the paper towel for wet spots under each carb.  
The bench test will tell you which need to be fixed/replaced.  You need to either re-work the needle valve seats, or the needles themselves, or replace the floats.  If this fix does not work, replace the entire faulty carburetor.

[Ferris Leets]

Can't he just put the petcock in the "off" position.  Won't that stop the flow?

[roboto65]

Maybe the valve maybe leaking past even when off and if it is and a float valve is stuck then it WILL happen again. But if it is good then yes just shutting the fuel off will fix it.

[Rocketman]

Can't he just put the petcock in the "off" position.  Won't that stop the flow?

Everyone always shuts their fuel off when stopped, right?  Therefore, it's flowing while it's in the off position.
OK, so maybe all my preaching has fallen on deaf ears, and there are still folks out there who don't shut off their fuel when they stop.  Let's make the assumption that that's the situation here.  Therefore, yes, he could shut it off, and that should stop the flow.  Of course, he's already demonstrated one failure (float needle valves), and only needs one more (flow while off) for a lock.  I'll leave it to him to determine his level of risk acceptance.

Granted, flow while off is a lot more rare than flow while on with no vacuum...
Probably a small risk to accept, at least in the short term while he's gathering parts/time/money for the carb fix.

[Farther]

Everyone always shuts their fuel off when stopped, right?

  Not me.

[Blackduck]

Just disconnect the fuel line at the petcock, if it flows fuel there can be a couple of issues.
Disconnect the extension piece (selector) and see if the flow stops, have seen where the selector does not line up with the valve and puts side load on the valve and causes it to leak.
Have had my petcock leak on 2 occasions, one of which was with the tank on the bench. Found the very small orifice in the petcock was blocked and holding vacuum on the petcock. Drilled it larger,added vacuum hoses to the 3 left cylinders with orifices in the lines. No more petcock leak.
The 3 lines eliminate any pulsing in the vacuum to the petcock.
Cheers Steve

[N0tac0p]

well, i now know the petcock leaks.  the lady puked oil and gas all over the garage floor.  what a mess (and a smell).  gotta back her our, wash her and then use a concrete cleane rto clean the floor and then an idutrial fan to clear th odor.

good news is, the tanks empty and will be easier to take off.  why do folks wonder why there are suicides, arrrrghhhh

[Hoser]

Solve your problem for good, put on a pingel petcock, plug # 6 vacumn hose, and ALWAYS turn off the gas when not running.  It's something  that was done in the old days before vacumn petcocks.  Make it a habit.  hoser

[roboto65]

Ok a Pingle is not a solve all it is a start but will lead to Hydrolock IF you forget to turn it off to if you have a float valve stuck just saying..   

[Ricky-D]

A Pingel can be the cure and it certainly can stop the hydrolock from re-occurring.

it's important to keep in mind that a very tiny piece of crap can foul the float valve assembly in the carburetor but:

That doesn't indicate any rebuilding is required.

If the carburetor float bowl is empty, a simple remedy would be to tap the carburetor while turning on the fuel.  This will dislodge most all float bowl fowling junk.  An addition thing to help the effort would be to open the float bowl drain.  The idea is to wash out the offending gunk.

I want to make a point here that it doesn't take a leak of any size to fill an intake riser and chamber since sitting for a few days a drop or so a minute would handily do that.

Rebuilding the carburetor, replacing some parts and even dismantling the carburetor is an over reaction to a simply remedied problem.

***

[Spirited-6]

Everyone always shuts their fuel off when stopped, right?

  Not me.

Me "DO". I rebuilt my petcock 10,000 miles ago but I still cut off at every stop. 

[Rocketman]

Ok a Pingle is not a solve all it is a start but will lead to Hydrolock IF you forget to turn it off to if you have a float valve stuck just saying..   

Very true, but here's the solution I've gone with:
I have the manual Pingel.  I have gotten into the habit of turning it off prior to shutting off the engine.
However, no matter how forceful the habit is, I will forget sometimes.  The other habit I've developed is to check before starting.  If I shut it off, all is good.  If I didn't, then I follow the rolling in gear procedure I listed above.
These two layers of habit plus the fact that it has never leaked through when I DO leave it open, gives me enough comfort level to proceed with life.

[Ricky-D]

Ok a Pingle is not a solve all it is a start but will lead to Hydrolock IF you forget to turn it off to if you have a float valve stuck just saying..   

Very true, but here's the solution I've gone with:
I have the manual Pingel.  I have gotten into the habit of turning it off prior to shutting off the engine.
However, no matter how forceful the habit is, I will forget sometimes.  The other habit I've developed is to check before starting.  If I shut it off, all is good.  If I didn't, then I follow the rolling in gear procedure I listed above.
These two layers of habit plus the fact that it has never leaked through when I DO leave it open, gives me enough comfort level to proceed with life.

That's nice!

But it's N0tac0p who has the problem!

***

[John U.]

I agree that the debris could easily be dislodged without rebuilding the carbs.
I think a fuel filter is an added defense against hydrolock. If the petcock screen was adequate then hydrolock would be a very rare occurance. In any case the downside is so awful, I figure some added insurance is worth the price and effort.
I use Golan filters on my bikes. They claim to filter to 10 microns. I've had no flow problems at full throttle to 100mph.
I suggest you get an inspection mirror and flashlight and check the tank for rust. If you find some check Casewell Plating. They make a two part epoxy for coating rusty tanks.
Good luck

[Garland]

I put in the manual Pingle and the Dan-Marc electronic fuel shut-off. I have been down that hydrolock road once and that was enough for me.

[Rocketman]

That's nice!

But it's N0tac0p who has the problem!

Yes.  I realize that.  I thought that it was possible that sharing my solution to an identical problem would be helpful.  However, if you think that simply attempting to ridicule me for no apparent reason is more helpful, then by all means, proceed.

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

Gettem Mark. I'm with you.

[PhredValk]

Great, something new to remember... I've owned a GL1100 Goldwing for a few years before getting the Valk. Its the only bike I've owned, and you never have to turn off the gas because it has a mechanical fuel pump that never lets gas through.
Gravity feed, who knew?
Fred.

[Rocketman]

Great, something new to remember... I've owned a GL1100 Goldwing for a few years before getting the Valk. Its the only bike I've owned, and you never have to turn off the gas because it has a mechanical fuel pump that never lets gas through.
Gravity feed, who knew?
Fred.

Lots of people never turn their fuel off, and never have a problem.  Hydrolock is a very rare event.  However, the magnitude of the problem that can be caused by a single event causes me to worry about it.
Remembering to shut the fuel off, and remembering to check before engine start was difficult at first, but now it's just a pure habit. 
You could forget to turn it back on, too, but she'll remind you a mile or two down the road.  (:

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

I'm with you Mark,  About 2 yrs ago my stock valve started leaking out the weep hole on the diaphram side. We were just fixing to leave for the  swampvest and no spare valves arround. So I gutted the diaphram side and placed some thick gasket material between the two halfs and bolted it back together and it been a manual shut off valve since. On with the key, off with the key. It's an easy habit to get into.