Backward Tire

[V-SIX DS#121]

After reading a post by DFragn about putting a 150-70-17 Kenda tire on his Valk and reversing the direction, I tried it.  Have put 200 miles on already, and it handles great.  Already being a Dark Sider, now I'm a Backward Tire Rider.  All kidding aside, my bike rides better and corners better.  Try It. :

[X Ring]

Already being a Dark Sider, now I'm a Backward Tire Rider.

No, you're a Double Darksider.

Marty

[V-SIX DS#121]

Tks Marty, I was so excited about how much better it rides and handles I wasn't thinking.

[Garland]

Keep us posted after you get five or ten thousand on it...

[DFragn]

Hey Rick,
Glad you like it.
Though, any new front tire is going to feel great...the true test for us is how well it'll wear & handle after several thousand miles.

I've only got 1000k miles on mine and measured the tread wear with a tire wear gauge and so far there is 0 discernible wear. All of the front radial MC tires I've put on have easily shown measured wear at 1000k. We'll see how it is around mid summer.
I've great expectations for this rear bias reversed rotation and don't anticipate any let-downs. I will, however, remain prepared. Justin Case!

Here's what it looks like again with tons of meat on it & shorter profile.

Kenda Rear Bias 150/70-17 Right around $60.00.

For the uninformed:
Never mount a bias tire in the rear with a radial up front. "Metzler's" position on this is a bias up front only when mixed with a rear radial.

[Rio Wil]

I am going to go rear tire on front darkside and am just wondering about the reverse thing. I believe the rational is that the front stopping stress on the tread lap joint is better tolerated by the tire if reversed.  But isn't the tire as mounted on the rear subjected to similar stopping stresses especially in the HD crowd, some of those guys never touch a front brake....I have never heard of a de-lamination at the joint under those conditions. Hard braking on the front certainly is  more stressful on a tire than hard braking on a rear because of the weight transfer that allows the rear to slide vs the front digging in and continuing to roll for a given brake pressure. 99% of my stops are not panic stops and not likely to subject the tire to any more stress than if it were on the back and using the rear brake.  So, am I missing something, even car tires are rotated front to back and there is no requirement to reverse their direction.  Comments welcomed...
 

[PhredValk]

My understanding is that rear tires have the cap stressed for torque while accellerating, which is much greater than braking for the rear tire. All of the torque on the front tire is from braking only, so the stress on the tread is reversed if using a rear tire. This according to the Metzler site, I believe.
Fred.

[Rio Wil]

but if you put the rear on front, you just remove the acceleration torque stress and it is not part of the equation any more. so what is left is the braking stress which is present whether mounted on the front or the rear.

[bigdog99]

i think the better question is,  HOW THE HECK DO I TELL MY WIFE I NEED A NEW TIRE

[X Ring]

Rio, you're correct except for one thing.  The accelleration forces on a rear tire cause the tire joint to be pushed together where the braking forces cause the front tire joint to be pushed together.  That's why you have to reverse the rotation of a rear tire when you put it on a front wheel.

Marty

[DFragn]

Rio, you're correct except for one thing.  The accelleration forces on a rear tire cause the tire joint to be pushed together where the braking forces cause the front tire joint to be pushed together.  That's why you have to reverse the rotation of a rear tire when you put it on a front wheel.

Marty

  Rotation direction.

Some have wondered about wet riding expulsion.
Though not proven or tested to date by me. My opinion is this particular rear bias tire should do an ample job of dispersing water via reverse running rotatation / front mount due to it's deep tread and cross-hatch tread design. - JMHO

No tread design or depth with eradicate hydroplaning under all wet riding conditions. Utilize and travel at your own discretion.

  liabilities thus waived 

[Mildew]

I'm going darkside $60 rear tire in the front backwards as soon as my metzler wears some more. I can hear my friends now. They already can't believe the car tire thing. I'm also the only one they know who rides most of the time with shorts and  flip flops. It's time to add another twist.

[DFragn]

I'm going darkside $60 rear tire in the front backwards as soon as my metzler wears some more. I can hear my friends now. They already can't believe the car tire thing. I'm also the only one they know who rides most of the time with shorts and  flip flops. It's time to add another twist.

Sorry, but every time I see a rider with flip-flops one word comes to mind [i_io_]. No offense, but sooner or later...
 

[Rio Wil]

bear with me guys, I am not trying to be obtuse....but if a rear mounted tire, joint  can survive both being pushed together AND being pulled apart during accell and braking, why wouldn't it survive on the front where the only stress is being pulled apart.  what I am getting at is what decision am I gonna make when I mount the dang thang!.....chuckle  could just flip a coin    I think I am wanting to keep the tread pattern correct for the water dispersion factor.  BTW, is the Kenda tire noisy?

[R J]

Rear tire mounted on the front.

Where this got started was in the late 60's and early 70's.

The front tire did not last very long when the bike was taken on long road trips.

Especially after the Gold Wing came out.

We had been running rear tires on the front on the race track, dirt track, a few years before, better traction in the curves, more tread.

Someone picked it up from there and then several people riding Gold Wings tried it for longer tire life.

Pirelli and some other tire companies all did research on this, and shared notes.

Pirelli's suggestion was run the tire backwards.  Reason being there was much more braking force on the front than on the rear.   This would help alleviate tire separation.

That is all I remember about it.

I did put many miles on a rear tire on the front of my Road bikes.....   Also, a few of my race bikes.....

P.S.:

Some Harley's run the same size tire front and rear.     Look at the directional arrow on the front.  It is running backwards.....     I doubt like 4377 that HD came up with that on their own.   So, I'd say some tire company told them to do it.

[Hobo]

I am not saying one is right and the other is wrong, however I think we are way over thinking the reverse rotation theory. I think on a directional tire the cap and tread pattern is designed to provide the safest service in one direction, that being starting, stopping and water displacement.

There is my  Dunlop D404 '130 90 17' with 5k miles, running with arrow, and dyna beads. Shows very little wear so far, we'll see how it does by the end of summer.

Not trying to change anyone's mind.......just saying 

[Rio Wil]

Thanks  a lot for the comments, the 150-70-17 Kenda looks good and the Dunlop 130-90-17 also................how long does the Kenda last and how can they make a tire priced so much less than all the others.....questions, questions.

[98valk]

Thanks  a lot for the comments, the 150-70-17 Kenda looks good and the Dunlop 130-90-17 also................how long does the Kenda last and how can they make a tire priced so much less than all the others.....questions, questions.

if this is the kenda K671 the  OD is 25.0
oem dunlop was D206 was an OD of 26.90, was because it has been discontinued.

the largest rear tire OD I have found is 130/90-17 by either continental or michelin at 26.85 OD.
however the michelin pilot active is a v-rated tire. continental offers two types, the one that has a nice tread pattern ContiGo! is as of this time not offered in a H-rating in the USA only as a v-rated tire (waiting on their email response to confirm). The other conti tire TK 17 has a tread pattern which IMO would not be good for a front tire.
other 130/90-17 tires;
bridgestone spitfire S11 is 26.4 OD
dunlop D404 is 25.97 OD
metzler is 26.22 OD
kenda is 26.3 OD

[2qmedic]

Hey Folks, have a question here!!!

When you went to the rear tire on front, were the counter-steering/swerving characteristics changed?
It would seem that it would be a little heavier because of the increase in mass.
Inquiring minds would like to know.
Thanks

[DFragn]

Hey Folks, have a question here!!!

When you went to the rear tire on front, were the counter-steering/swerving characteristics changed?
It would seem that it would be a little heavier because of the increase in mass.
Inquiring minds would like to know.
Thanks

Whatever the increase in mass may be it remains centrifugal. This particular tire 150/70-17 has less mass then an E3 150/80-17 that fills the front fender in 2 directions. What I believe makes a front MC tire feel heavier/lighter is the width of it's contact patch as well as the tires shape.

[Ferris Leets]

I have been running rears on the front since the '70's.  I would guess I have about 200k on.  Back then most tires came with 2 arrows one marked rear, one marked front.   Never had any issues with this and do get much better wear.  At one point I even considered "rotating" front to back on the MOTOGUZZI but decided that was not a good idea.

[fudgie]

So whats the point of it? Ain't front tires cheaper and out last a rear?

[X Ring]

Supposed to balance out the handling with a car tire plus you get longer as the grooves on a rear tire are deeper.

Marty

[fudgie]

Supposed to balance out the handling with a car tire plus you get longer as the grooves on a rear tire are deeper.

Marty

Ok thx!

[98valk]

maybe if enough of us email continental they will import the H-rated tire.

"Your recent inquiry was forwarded to the Continental Tire the Americas, LLC, Two Wheel division.
Your research is correct.  The 130/90-17 Conti Go! is only available in the U.S. in the V rated version.
There are no plans at this time to import this tire in the H rated version.

Thank you for your interest in Continental motorcycle tires."


Regards,
Janet DeCandia
Continental Tire the Americas, LLC
Coordinator, Operations/Administration
Two Wheel Tires
Tel: 973-471-8890
Fax: 973-471-8766
Email:  janet.decandia@conti-na.com

[Fla. Jim]

http://www.angelfire.com/nj3/terminalvalkocity/reversetire.html

Why run rear tire on front in reverse.

[roboto65]

Very interesting reading for Thanks...

[V-SIX DS#121]

I am not saying one is right and the other is wrong, however I think we are way over thinking the reverse rotation theory. I think on a directional tire the cap and tread pattern is designed to provide the safest service in one direction, that being starting, stopping and water displacement.

There is my  Dunlop D404 '130 90 17' with 5k miles, running with arrow, and dyna beads. Shows very little wear so far, we'll see how it does by the end of summer.

Not trying to change anyone's mind.......just saying 

[2qmedic]

So, I agree that having an V rating would be cool, but about 110 is about as fast I ever go, and even with the max speed at about 125ish on the Valk, are some of you really traveling that fast for that long as it would warrant the V rating? or is it the "cushion" of the speed rating that is more comforting? May sound like a dumb question, but just trying to understand the method behind the madness so to speak.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-tires/tire-data.htm

Motorcycle Tire Speed Ratings   

Maximum Design/Test Speed
H Type    130    210
V Type    149    240
Z Type    149+    240+

Tires with 2.00, 2.25 & 2.50 nominal section widths are rated for 75 mph.

[Rio Wil]

Its making me nuts that all the tire experts are saying mount the tire reverse direction on the front because the joint will (could) fail because of the braking forces what would (could) pull open the lap joint. THEY SEEM TO TOTALLY IGNORE THE FACT THAT THE SAME BRAKING FORCE IS ATTEMPTING TO PULL THE JOINT APART WHEN THE TIRE IS MOUNTED ON THE REAR! HOW DO YOU S'PLAIN THAT LUCY! So I am gonna mount mine on the front in the normal rotation direction and just brake with the rear tire which is a CT (or a MMT)!

.......just kidding about the braking thang... )

[X Ring]

Rio it has to do with the weight transfer to the front when braking.  There are less braking forces on the rear tire.

Marty

[MP]

Front does about 70% of the braking, so the braking forces on the front tire are almost 2 1/2 times as much as on the rear.  In theory the backwards makes sense.

However, in actual practice, I doubt if you will find tires coming apart on the front if you mount them the same.  I doubt if any have failed.

Kind of like CT's on the rear.  In theory, the sidewall is not built to handle the exact forces a mc puts on them.  However, in practice, I have NEVER heard of one failing.

MP

[Warlock]

Supposed to balance out the handling with a car tire plus you get longer as the grooves on a rear tire are deeper.

Marty

Looks like I will be needing one before long. Got to looking at the different tire. The Avon Roadrider 130/90/17 looks real good. The spec shows it's measures a 140 width. Has 7.5 mm depth. Might be the one I get.
David

[X Ring]

Get it before the end of the month so you can get the Avon Rebate.

Marty

[98valk]

So, I agree that having an V rating would be cool, but about 110 is about as fast I ever go, and even with the max speed at about 125ish on the Valk, are some of you really traveling that fast for that long as it would warrant the V rating? or is it the "cushion" of the speed rating that is more comforting? May sound like a dumb question, but just trying to understand the method behind the madness so to speak.

a v-rated tire usually has a thinner thread and a softer compound, which means increase wear rates. also a v-rated tire has less traction in colder temps until it warms up, temps too cold and it may never warm up.
v-rated will last longer than H-rated at higher temps and speeds.

[Warlock]

Get it before the end of the month so you can get the Avon Rebate.

Marty

Need more info. What rebate and where to get it.
David

[Pete]

In my case both new tires were larger and heavier as well as being less curved from side to side.
It did slow the handling somewhat and made it less sensitive. Not enough to be a problem.

The V65 was almost to sensitive anyway so the slow down was welcome. Made it seem more stable.
As for the KZ1300, changed handling very little as it was slow and heavy anyway. 

[98valk]

Get it before the end of the month so you can get the Avon Rebate.

Marty

Need more info. What rebate and where to get it.
David

avon website.

[bigdog99]

well now, not to dig this back up, but!!!!!  i did it. 
i found the nerve to get hte money from the wife and bought one.
so does that make those of who did, with a car tire bass ackward dark siders?

[Fla. Jim]

You know I wonder why they don't just put the same amount of rubber on the front as on the rear in the first place. Guess this way they can sell more tires. I know with the rear mounted on my front I get about three times the wear rate as any other normal front.

And another memory on the separation of the rear running with the arrows. I asked about turning it around only after running it for 3k+ miles with much high speed, peg grinding curves as I can find them here and many panic stops. As It was considered to "unsafe" for anyone else to try at the time. Guess some of you doing this back in earlier times were not here then. As It made the debate over using a car tire look tame...A flaming death was sure to ensue and when that did not happen.  I was simply an aberration