Stuck Pilot + "Free" synchs at InZane X ?

[Wildman]

Stuck Pilot Jet
My #6 pilot jet was stuck closed, after bottoming it out to count the 2 ¼ turns out where I wanted to set it.
I got it to turn after coming to the conclusion that it was stuck (broken ) I might have to buy a set and take the whole carburetor  assembly out and rebuild them all, or I could just go in and do my best to make it turn. I had nothing to lose.
I removed the intake runner, and the carburetor to intake runner boot.
Threw a towel over the port.
Got my small hex drive, thumb wheel, with the “D” jet drive out.
Got a ½ inch standard length 3/8 drive socket.
Put the special tool on the pilot jet, the ½” socket centered under it, and used a large square shaft screw driver lever the socket and “D” drive up while I used my left hand to unscrew the jet. It took a lot of force but it did turn. I got it backed out and set my valve clearances and synchronized my carburetors.
My bike hasn’t so good in a long time maybe ever.

It seems that carburetor  synch is not possible for a lot of Valk owners.
I’ve been thinking of brining my 2 Motion Pro carb-Stixs  to InZane X and doing “Free”  (donations to the Valk Carity) for anyone that wants a synch.
Let me know if you might be interested in a Free synch. If I can convince Joe Studebaker to help I think we can turn around a synch in about 10 to 15 minutes.
The Motion Pro Carb-Stix are four- up mercury manometers. One will look at 1, 3, and 5 cylinders and the other will look at 2, 3, 4, 6 cylinders with a Y connector on #3 to so we can do both sides at once.
I believe that you can’t get a good synch without looking at all 6 of the carbs at once. Because when you change one setting others can change and if the one that changes is one that you already tuned  you are not synched very well at the end.

[DFragn]

I believe that you can’t get a good synch without looking at all 6 of the carbs at once. Because when you change one setting others can change and if the one that changes is one that you already tuned  you are not synched very well at the end.

I agree.
But, I'd be seriously impressed if 2 of you could do it in 10-15 minutes.
All your saving is the walk around and you both can't be adjusting simultaneously.

Each bike is going to react differently and no single adjustment will react the way you would expect with it's influence on the others from bike to bike.

This sync took almost an hour and the levels were much
steadier at 5' tall then  2 - 3 foot mercury tubes would be.

This was as close as mine was going to get...after a freaking hour.
I consider it perfect

BTW the upper picture is the end result using my Electronic TwinMax [terrible]

[Wildman]

both sides can be adjusting at the same time.
everything adjusts to 3.
both stixs look at 3.
get the big changes done then work to smaller changes.

[DFragn]

I think not. Impossible.
That's the problem. Number 3 changes too even though it's non-adjustable once you start making adjustments to the other 5.

From what I've seen personally and others of concurred. It's highly probable that while a carb on the left is being 'tuned' it could [will] directly affect the carb on the right that is being simultaneously 'tuned'. You guys would be working against each other. 1 carb adjustment definitely affects the other five [even the fixed #3]. If your both trying to dial in on opposing sides it's east vs west with no winners. You still have to go 1 carb at a time.

2 guys can do it from their own side, but not simultaneously. You'll have to work together not against each other.

Note: Those effected changes to the other 5 will be less visible on a short stick with heavy mercury. I have found that's not good enough for me, nor was the TwinMax sync tool. Short sticks with heavy mercury can hide what's really going on while adjusting. But, that's good enough it most cases.

1 single adjustment of any of the 5 adjustable carbs affects all 6. Just the way it is.

[Wildman]

They all effect each other.
But the large discrepancies can be delt with quickly then you get to the nitty gritty when you are with in an inch or so mercury from balance.
If takes longer we'll do it.
This can be a learning opportunity.
I bet the two of us can beat one person hands down.

[DFragn]

I bet the two of us can beat one person hands down.

I have no doubt about that. And, it'll be fun...

[eric in md]

    i want mine done.. please.. i want on the list to get done.

[blackvalk]

Dumb question, what is the trigger on doing this adjustment? Miles on bike or what?

Bill

[Wildman]

Reply to BlackValk

The trigger for synchronization is;
A rough running engine. This is tough on the Valk because even when it is in bad synch. it is still inharently smoother than any other design, it's a flat 6.

What I look for is;
at about 25 miles an hour, in fith gear, on a flat road,
Roll off on throttle until you og from pushung to comression braking.
If you hear gear lath once you're good, If you hear the engine lurching back and forth push to brake on the gears, you need a synch.

It's hard to describe the difference, through the gears, and tone of the engine. but once you've had it balanced well you'll realize how awsome these engines are.

[Wildman]

Hey Eirc

You're the first one.
You'll love how it runs after.

[TearlessTom]

What fluid are you running in your home made balancer? What size hoses are you using?

I've gotten mine close but I think I can get better.

I was using air hose from an aquarium tank I think 1/4 inch and some left over Honda fork oil. Oil seems to be a bit too light and moved up the 12 foot tubes too fast to adjust. This was an all six carbs hooked up at the same time system.

I was able to get a decent balance using the water level type balancing system.  (A single line with fluid, one end on the main carb. the other to the other 5, one at a time. Adjust until the fluid is level on both sides. Then repeat the process for fine tuning)

My motion pro system doesn't change at all when hooked up. Every thing is even.

Tom

[blackvalk]

Wildman,

I only have 10K miles on my bike, but looking at how far out your carbs were and how close they are once you did the adjustment I wonder how far out mine might be.

I will try the roll off in 5th gear at 25mph tomorrow.

I wouldn't mind hooking my bike up at Inzane in July. If they are close, it won't be time wasted.

What other tech sessions are there at Inzane? I just installed a 4 degree Trigger Wheel and changed the timing belts just because of age last weekend.

My bike runs so smoothly, I love it. My other bike is a VTX1800 and my wifes is a new Yamaha 950.

Bill

[PhredValk]

After looking at prices for V-6 synch kits, and looking at buying 6 guages and trying to build a kit, I see this thing. It's absolutely BRILLANT!!
Is there a schematic for this rig somewhere? Could someone do one?
Fred.

[humshark]

Could someone help accurately point out how they adjust these while the bike is running? 

PLease post a video somewhere.  I see the carbs on my interstate and wonder how I'd ever be able to get in to adjust anything let alone while running.

Mine IS rough.  I always suspect a missing cylinder but I can't nail it down by pulling a plug, one at a time....

[MP]

Try this:

When cold, start it up.  Then, CAREFULLY, feel each exhaust header pipe, to see if they are about equal in temp.  Will need to warm up a little, but do not get too hot!

If you have an infrared heat temp gun, that would be much better.

MP

[Wildman]

Tearlesstom

The fluid I use in the Motion Pro is Mercury. The specific gravity of mercury is around 13. Water is 1 oil is less than water.
murcury manometers tell the pressure difference between the atmosphere and the intake runner.
To make an oil pressure measurment you need a closed system or very tall colum of oil.
close the resevoir run all of the lines from the resevoir to the intake runners. This measures the pressure difference from one runner to the next which is what you want.
In theory the oil will be 13 to 14 times as sensitive as mercury.
I have made a couple of these in the past. Another key thing in measurement is dampening the pressure pulses. the best way to do this is to make a section of your tube at the top of the tube as follows.
use a large inside diameter tube adapt it to a very small inside diameter tube .  then adapt up to another large diameter tube. go do this 4 times or so and the pressure pulses will be very small.

I use to have access to micro bore tubing for the small bore stuff down at .020" ID.
I had access to precision vacuum gauges (about $400 each) the first time I hooked them up to my bike I though I might have wrecked them the needles were slamming from one needle stop to the other. The pulse dampeners brought the needles  under controll with hardly any noticable fluctuation.

[Wildman]

Your bike may be running well synched now.
We can hook it up and see what the gauges say.

[eric in md]

cant wait to get mine done o yea im excited...

[Wildman]

Carb synch. adjust.
Once you have the vacuum lines hooked up for pressure monitoring.
The lines push over the vacuum port at the back of the intake-runner lower collar where the collar bolts to the head.
You remove the chrome linkage cover panel , held down by three #2 philips head chromed round head screws.
There are philips head adjusting screws on the linkage behind the cover panel these screws have springs on them to prevent them from turning after adjustment.
There are 3 on the left side and only 2 on the right side, the number 3 cylinder, the middle right cylinder, has no adjustment.  All carbs synchronize to #3.
You make smaller and smaller adjustments until all cylinders are as even as possible on the gauges manometers or what erver you're measuring vacuum with.  ( is anyone doing this with zero volume load cell gauges? )
 

[Wildman]

The right hand side (as you sit on the bike) has cylinders 1,3,5 one is in front and 5 is at the back on the right hand side.
On the left hand side you have cylinders 2,4,6 two is up front with 6 in the back.