What happens when the rear axle nuts is to tight?

[5_19]

Work on a 98 Valk this weekend that was making noise when slowing down. The noise seemed to be coming from the rear end and pointed to a u-joint.
The only thing that we noticed was the axle nut was super tight and when we loosened it the swingarm sprung open/wider. In retrospect that's very odd because upon assembly we had to pry to get the rear brake assembly to fit.  We checked all the splines, u-joint, pinion cup, bearings etc everything checked out a--ok. After assembly the noise went away and no more problem. Has anybody else had a similar experience? ~TJ 

[hubcapsc]

Work on a 98 Valk this weekend that was making noise when slowing down. The noise seemed to be coming from the rear end and pointed to a u-joint.
The only thing that we noticed was the axle nut was super tight and when we loosened it the swingarm sprung open/wider. In retrospect that's very odd because upon assembly we had to pry to get the rear brake assembly to fit.  We checked all the splines, u-joint, pinion cup, bearings etc everything checked out a--ok. After assembly the noise went away and no more problem. Has anybody else had a similar experience? ~TJ 

Never heard of that... the right amount of tight is pretty darn tight...

There's a tightening order that is important... tighten the four bolts that hold the final drive to the swingarm last...
Tighten the axle bolt first...

-Mike

[Tx Bohemian]

What kind of noise?  Clicking, rubbing, grinding, squeaking, etc...

[Chrisj CMA]

Not saying difinitively this is what happened, but it would explain.  If the last time the wheel was off before this incident the bearings were changed, the left one probably wasnt seated all the way, that would account for the prying to get the caliper plate in.  Then if the person forgot to install the interior spacer that would allow for some "crunching" of the space.  If the spacer is in then overtightening the nut can really only damage the left bearing.  If the spacer is out it can damage the left bearing and the wheel where the bearing is set........Either way sounds like the bearing was making noise, and should be if it was so over tightened that it distorded the swing arm.  I think the spacer was left out

[1FAST6]

+1 on Final Drive alignment.  While we are missing some critical information, like when was the wheel last off and what was done to it...  I would have to agree that it sounds like the final drive was out of whack!  Obviously the swing arm was not bent, or you would have had the same space when you put it back together as you had when you took it apart.  Also, it is well documented here that failure to follow the proper assembly sequence (torque axel nut, then 4 bolts on final drive) can cause the splines to be out of alignment and cause them to rub laterally as they turn.  This may have been the sound, and if left untreated would cause premature failure of the splines.  We're kinda trying to connect the dots here, and many of the dots are missing, but that's my $.02.

[Hoser]

"Then if the person forgot to install the interior spacer that would allow for some "crunching" of the space.  If the spacer is in then overtightening the nut can really only damage the left bearing.  If the spacer is out it can damage the left bearing and the wheel where the bearing is set........Either way sounds like the bearing was making noise, and should be if it was so over tightened that it distorded the swing arm.  I think the spacer was left out"

I agree, been there done that.    hoser

[5_19]

+1 on Final Drive alignment.  While we are missing some critical information, like when was the wheel last off and what was done to it...  I would have to agree that it sounds like the final drive was out of whack!  Obviously the swing arm was not bent, or you would have had the same space when you put it back together as you had when you took it apart.  Also, it is well documented here that failure to follow the proper assembly sequence (torque axel nut, then 4 bolts on final drive) can cause the splines to be out of alignment and cause them to rub laterally as they turn.  This may have been the sound, and if left untreated would cause premature failure of the splines.  We're kinda trying to connect the dots here, and many of the dots are missing, but that's my $.02.

The motorcycle shop that I use to mount my car tire was the culprit. The axle nut was waaaaaay to tight. I don't know if that was causing my knocking sound but when you finally got the nut off I saw the frame flex back into it's normal position. I guess that why most valk owners do their own maintenance. All drive line parts checked out good so we put them back and changed the rear gear lube to Royal Purple fully synthetic and she runs good without any knocking noises. Torqued the axle nut per Honda specs so we are good to go there. I'll let everyone know how the trip went when I get back from D.C.. Thanks again for hosting a wrench party just for me.

The quote in RED is from the Texas Forum and supplies some of the missing information. The shop that worked on the bike last must have used the wrong tightning sequence or none at all. The pumpkin must have been out of allignment and cause the noise and also was the reason for the bad fit when I removed the axle nut. Thanks for the great response. TJ

[asfltdncr]

I have heard over-torqueing can or will cause bearing damage.

[Hoser]

Did you check to see if the interior spacer was there?  I still think that was what allowed the swing arm to contract.  If the spacer was installed,  the swing arm will not contract no matter how tight the axle nut is.  JMHO.  Hoser

[MP]

+1, hoser.

Check for the spacer.  If in there, you will not hurt the bearing, no matter how tight.

MP

[1FAST6]

If all the parts are in their places, the overtorque alone should not have caused such a problem.  All the bearing races and spacers make a metal-on-metal column all the way across the axel.  81 ft-lbs is pretty tight and there should be no slop.  Tightening more should not compress the hardened steel any further...  Had to be a mis-alignment or missing piece.  I'm betting on mis-alignment (twist) at the pumpkin.  

Yes, that's why most of us do our own work...  TRUST NO ONE!

[Hoser]

 The spacer is number 7 on the illustration
 http://www.hdlparts.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=148879&category=MOTORCYCLES&make=HONDA&year=1999&fveh=3478
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
   
   
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
 
 

[SPOFF]

That in-wheel spacer is a pretty big part. If it fell out you'd (hopefully) notice this 9 inch heavy tube lying around. Just be absolutely sure that the pumpkin nuts were tightened last!  If there's the slightest doubt, loosen everything and retighten correctly. I just finished repairing splines that got screwed up in this fashion. Over $500 with used junkyard parts. Three times that if you take it to the dealer. 

The Valkyrie rear drive is about the only weakness in the design (IMO) and requires regular disassembly and maintenance. I've really learned to appreciate the shaft drive on my V-Max: 30 percent more power yet it can go decades without as much as a dab of grease.

[1FAST6]

Yep!  #7 is the one everybody's referring to.  It's not hard to forget about it whan installing new bearings.  If someone at a shop left ot out, all the stress from torqueing the axel nut is put on the inner races of the bearings.  Fatal for the bearings.

[Hotrodwing]

What if the previous owner ran a CT and had the spacer cut. If this were the case the swing arm would be pulled in to take up the missing slice NO?

[Garland]

What if the previous owner ran a CT and had the spacer cut. If this were the case the swing arm would be pulled in to take up the missing slice NO?

Spacer should still be there regardless of tire type.

[MP]

CT does not affect the spacer.  It would not be cut for a CT.  Wheel stays the same.

MP

[5_19]

CT does not affect the spacer.  It would not be cut for a CT.  Wheel stays the same.

MP

What if the previous owner ran a CT and had the spacer cut. If this were the case the swing arm would be pulled in to take up the missing slice NO?

Spacer should still be there regardless of tire type.

If all the parts are in their places, the overtorque alone should not have caused such a problem.  All the bearing races and spacers make a metal-on-metal column all the way across the axel.  81 ft-lbs is pretty tight and there should be no slop.  Tightening more should not compress the hardened steel any further...  Had to be a mis-alignment or missing piece.  I'm betting on mis-alignment (twist) at the pumpkin. 

Yes, that's why most of us do our own work...  TRUST NO ONE!

Well guys the spacer was installed. The pumpkin must must have really been twisted and caused it to spring back. After Memorial Day we will know more, Victor will have put over 3000 miles on it by than. ~ TJ