Nine years later...and they are still finding remains...

[Daniel Meyer]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/7848762/Remains-of-72-people-found-at-World-Trade-Center-site.html

[alph]

That’s a sad story. 

Thank you for reminding us, amazing to think it's been 9 years already.  My thought is, they should have built the same type of buildings, but diagonally from the footprints of the original foundations.
It seems that nothing is going to ever be built there.  I hope they build a bigger, stronger, better building then any of those muslim sky scrapers.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I still think we should have turned the part of the world that attacked us into a "burned, smoking, glow in the dark ruin". It would have been a permanent reminder to the rest of the world not to do that again.

Of course, there's a reason I'm not in charge I guess.

I just saw a pic of my son in law Gary standing next to a thermometer in Iraq which was reading 135 degrees, the pic was taken before noon. That's pretty hot when you're in a "T" shirt, let alone the "full battle rattle" he was wearing. I've got to hope our government knew what it was doing when it sent our boys over there. But personally, I think we should have kept our troops at home and nuked em into the stone age. Then nuked em some more. All on Sept. 12'th while the world was still holding it's breath.

[Titan]

I still think we should have turned the part of the world that attacked us into a "burned, smoking, glow in the dark ruin". It would have been a permanent reminder to the rest of the world not to do that again.

I absolutely agree! I would never have believed that this country would have let that go by without doing exactly as you described.

[Cliff]

The memories of that day are still vivid for me, the smells, sights and sounds stay with me, for some reason the smells are the most vivid.  My family and I can never forget.

[Bobbo]

I still think we should have turned the part of the world that attacked us into a "burned, smoking, glow in the dark ruin". It would have been a permanent reminder to the rest of the world not to do that again.

Of course, there's a reason I'm not in charge I guess.

I just saw a pic of my son in law Gary standing next to a thermometer in Iraq which was reading 135 degrees, the pic was taken before noon. That's pretty hot when you're in a "T" shirt, let alone the "full battle rattle" he was wearing. I've got to hope our government knew what it was doing when it sent our boys over there. But personally, I think we should have kept our troops at home and nuked em into the stone age. Then nuked em some more. All on Sept. 12'th while the world was still holding it's breath.

Unfortunately, there is no “part of the world that attacked us”.  It was done by ideology, not a country.  A majority of the attackers were Saudi, along with bin Laden.  The Saudi monarchy has close ties to the Bush administration, so no action would ever be taken against them.   You cannot fight beliefs with military action.

[RoadKill]

"You cannot fight beliefs with military action.


"If the liberal 'agenda' keeps marching forth...we may just find out !   

[Serk]

I really REALLY liked Penn and Teller's idea on what to do on ground zero...

WARNING! EXTREMELY CRUDE LANGUAGE.

I'm posting as a TinyURL instead of the direct YouTube link so it won't show inline, click the link if you want to watch the video, but it's got a lot of foul language in it. If the admins need to remove my link, I fully understand...

http://tinyurl.com/2fyxjkr

[Printer Mike]

http://tinyurl.com/2fyxjkr

Hail yeah!!!!!!

[Big Rig]

What language??? I was expecting spanish....om just sayin....

[3fan4life]

Unfortunately, there is no “part of the world that attacked us”.  It was done by ideology, not a country.  A majority of the attackers were Saudi, along with bin Laden.  The Saudi monarchy has close ties to the Bush administration, so no action would ever be taken against them.   You cannot fight beliefs with military action.

I was there during the First Gulf War, and I realized then that the Saudis' were not our "Friends" either.  When it comes to idealism they are even more backwards than the rest of the middle east.

They want the world to view them as more moderate so that they can continue to rake in oil money without sanction.

It is my opinion that NO Muslim can be trusted. They want people to believe that Islam is a religion of peace yet the majority of conflict on Earth today is their doing. 

Now, before you go off the deep end about the US being in Iraq, let me point out to you one simple truth:

IF THE PEOPLE IN IRAQ WOULD QUIT BLOWING THINGS UP AND SHOOTING AT EACH OTHER WE WOULD LEAVE

With the current displeasure that most Americans have towards the war in Iraq, NO President could justify keeping troops there if the fighting were to STOP.

As for not being able to fight “beliefs” with military action, you are partially correct................

Deep Rooted beliefs are not easily given up....... that is true.

But if you kill enough of the radicals then people who didn’t agree with their extremists beliefs will start to speak out.
And if enough of them begin to Stand-up, the extremists will lose.

Will this happen?
Only time will tell.

My own opinion when it comes to Muslims is quite radical itself............................

KILL THEM ALL and let God/Allah sort them out.

So, if it weren’t for all of the oil reserves underneath the sand in the middle east......
I would have to agree that the RIGHT Answer would’ve been to have launched a MASSIVE Nuclear strike on the region on September 12, 2001.

[Bobbo]

I was there during the First Gulf War, and I realized then that the Saudis' were not our "Friends" either.  When it comes to idealism they are even more backwards than the rest of the middle east.

They want the world to view them as more moderate so that they can continue to rake in oil money without sanction.

I fully agree.

It is my opinion that NO Muslim can be trusted. They want people to believe that Islam is a religion of peace yet the majority of conflict on Earth today is their doing. 

Now, before you go off the deep end about the US being in Iraq, let me point out to you one simple truth:

IF THE PEOPLE IN IRAQ WOULD QUIT BLOWING THINGS UP AND SHOOTING AT EACH OTHER WE WOULD LEAVE

With the current displeasure that most Americans have towards the war in Iraq, NO President could justify keeping troops there if the fighting were to STOP.

You don’t know very many Muslims.
Once we invaded Iraq, the majority of people blowing things up were foreign fighters that came into Iraq specifically to make life difficult for the US and any US supporters in Iraq.  The rest were members of Saddam’s Ba’ath party and sympathizers.

As for not being able to fight “beliefs” with military action, you are partially correct................

Deep Rooted beliefs are not easily given up....... that is true.

But if you kill enough of the radicals then people who didn’t agree with their extremists beliefs will start to speak out.
And if enough of them begin to Stand-up, the extremists will lose.

Will this happen?
Only time will tell.

My own opinion when it comes to Muslims is quite radical itself............................

KILL THEM ALL and let God/Allah sort them out.

So, if it weren’t for all of the oil reserves underneath the sand in the middle east......
I would have to agree that the RIGHT Answer would’ve been to have launched a MASSIVE Nuclear strike on the region on September 12, 2001.

If you were unfamiliar with Christianity and your only exposure was the crusades, Spanish Inquisition, KKK of the old South, Westboro Baptist Church, and Scott Roeder, you would never trust a Christian either.  Common sense usually prevails and most people realize that there are good and bad people of all colors, creeds, religions, and political beliefs.

[3fan4life]

You don’t know very many Muslims.
Once we invaded Iraq, the majority of people blowing things up were foreign fighters that came into Iraq specifically to make life difficult for the US and any US supporters in Iraq.  The rest were members of Saddam’s Ba’ath party and sympathizers.

You're right I don't know many Muslims and considering the Great number of them that would like to KILL me and my entire family simply because I am an American, I don't CARE to know many.

And I do realize that many of the people that continue to stir the pot in Iraq are from other parts of the middle east.

But aren't they also Muslims? 

If you were unfamiliar with Christianity and your only exposure was the crusades, Spanish Inquisition, KKK of the old South, Westboro Baptist Church, and Scott Roeder, you would never trust a Christian either.  Common sense usually prevails and most people realize that there are good and bad people of all colors, creeds, religions, and political beliefs.

Yes, many people have done their best, Christians included to give Christianity a bad name.

And if you recall the Crusades were a Christian vs Muslim conflict.

One that many radical Muslims still point to as their justification for hating and killing Christians.

If ONLY "Common Sense" would prevail in this senseless conflict.

I don't care what religion someone else practices....

I do care though when they think that I and my entire family should die because my religion isn't the same as theirs.

You hit the nail on the head, "Idealism" is the problem and unfortunately when it rears its ugly head "common" sense  is the big loser.

Is it possible that there are Good people who are Muslims?

YES, I would have to agree that there are.

But, until these people band together and denounce the radicals they haven't proved it by me.

One of the main images that I vividly remember from September 11, 2001 is the images of muslims all over the world dancing in the streets "celebrating" the deaths of Americans.

That is ingrained in my mind as to what Muslims think of us.

The people inside the twin towers did nothing to deserve what happened to them.

Some of them were even Muslim... and yet people danced in the streets celebrating their horrible deaths.

Right or Wrong, until I see Muslims standing up and publicly denouncing the "radicals" among them for doing wrong........

When I see a Muslim, I see them as one of the people that were dancing in the streets on 9/11/2001. 

[Bobbo]

And if you recall the Crusades were a Christian vs Muslim conflict.

Yes, Western European Christians tried to take back land and artifacts that they believed were stolen by Muslims in the Middle East.  They killed a lot of people, but were ultimately defeated every time.  Why did the Christian god allow that?

One that many radical Muslims still point to as their justification for hating and killing Christians.

Just like some modern Christians hating Jews for that “Christ killer” thing that happened almost 2000 years ago.

One of the main images that I vividly remember from September 11, 2001 is the images of muslims all over the world dancing in the streets "celebrating" the deaths of Americans.

That is ingrained in my mind as to what Muslims think of us.

The people inside the twin towers did nothing to deserve what happened to them.

Some of them were even Muslim... and yet people danced in the streets celebrating their horrible deaths.

Right or Wrong, until I see Muslims standing up and publicly denouncing the "radicals" among them for doing wrong........

When I see a Muslim, I see them as one of the people that were dancing in the streets on 9/11/2001. 

The people you saw dancing were just as misinformed about Americans as you are about Muslims.  How many people here were dancing and shouting “USA USA” when the bombs were dropping in Iraq?  The average Iraqi would also wonder why Americans are happy about killing their fellow countrymen.  It has to do with perception.  When you perceive someone as the enemy, you are happy when harm comes to them.  The problem is that perception is guided by the information you get, right, wrong, or otherwise.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I still think we should have turned the part of the world that attacked us into a "burned, smoking, glow in the dark ruin". It would have been a permanent reminder to the rest of the world not to do that again.

Of course, there's a reason I'm not in charge I guess.

I just saw a pic of my son in law Gary standing next to a thermometer in Iraq which was reading 135 degrees, the pic was taken before noon. That's pretty hot when you're in a "T" shirt, let alone the "full battle rattle" he was wearing. I've got to hope our government knew what it was doing when it sent our boys over there. But personally, I think we should have kept our troops at home and nuked em into the stone age. Then nuked em some more. All on Sept. 12'th while the world was still holding it's breath.

Unfortunately, there is no “part of the world that attacked us”.  It was done by ideology, not a country.  A majority of the attackers were Saudi, along with bin Laden.  The Saudi monarchy has close ties to the Bush administration, so no action would ever be taken against them.   You cannot fight beliefs with military action.

I believe most if not all of the leaders of those who attacked us were in Afghanistan shortly after the attack. If we had sterilized Afghanistan on 9/12 we could have been pretty sure that we killed most of the leaders of the terrorists. That would have been good enough for me. As far as fighting ideology, this is a primitive, failed society we are fighting. If there is one thing they understand, it's force. If we promised to kill 100,000 of or more of them for every American they killed, and then we did it they would stop fighting.

If they truly believe they will achieve a better afterlife by killing us, then they are devout enough to beleive that being buried with the entrails of pigs would keep them out of their afterlife. Why don't we do it? Why don't we feed them only pork when we capture them?

I had a conversation with an academic type (professor?) shortly after 9/11. He was talking about his son's friends who are Muslim and how he thought most of them were alright. He said they frequently come to his house and he knows several personally. At this point I asked him a question. I asked "did he beleive they would fight and die for our right to worship as we please, just as we would for them?"

He paused for a long time, then said quietly, "no". I think that says it all.

[Valker]

I've said that all our battlegrounds  in Iraq and Afghanistan should be aerial sprayed with bacon grease prior to the start of the fight.

[fstsix]

I was there during the First Gulf War, and I realized then that the Saudis' were not our "Friends" either.  When it comes to idealism they are even more backwards than the rest of the middle east.

They want the world to view them as more moderate so that they can continue to rake in oil money without sanction.

I fully agree.

It is my opinion that NO Muslim can be trusted. They want people to believe that Islam is a religion of peace yet the majority of conflict on Earth today is their doing. 

Now, before you go off the deep end about the US being in Iraq, let me point out to you one simple truth:

IF THE PEOPLE IN IRAQ WOULD QUIT BLOWING THINGS UP AND SHOOTING AT EACH OTHER WE WOULD LEAVE

With the current displeasure that most Americans have towards the war in Iraq, NO President could justify keeping troops there if the fighting were to STOP.

You don’t know very many Muslims.
Once we invaded Iraq, the majority of people blowing things up were foreign fighters that came into Iraq specifically to make life difficult for the US and any US supporters in Iraq.  The rest were members of Saddam’s Ba’ath party and sympathizers.

As for not being able to fight “beliefs” with military action, you are partially correct................

Deep Rooted beliefs are not easily given up....... that is true.

But if you kill enough of the radicals then people who didn’t agree with their extremists beliefs will start to speak out.
And if enough of them begin to Stand-up, the extremists will lose.

Will this happen?
Only time will tell.

My own opinion when it comes to Muslims is quite radical itself............................

KILL THEM ALL and let God/Allah sort them out.

So, if it weren’t for all of the oil reserves underneath the sand in the middle east......
I would have to agree that the RIGHT Answer would’ve been to have launched a MASSIVE Nuclear strike on the region on September 12, 2001.

If you were unfamiliar with Christianity and your only exposure was the crusades, Spanish Inquisition, KKK of the old South, Westboro Baptist Church, and Scott Roeder, you would never trust a Christian either.  Common sense usually prevails and most people realize that there are good and bad people of all colors, creeds, religions, and political beliefs.

Man is a fallen creature not worthy for site of God. We...you have already been judged, Jesus was not Violent at all, The New Testament was wrote to show us our Sin nature....Haha...Like you BO, the problem you are going to have comparing Jesus to the Muslim religion is that Jesus was not Religious,, Man has invented religion to bend conform and control you and me.....if you have any spiritual belief, what ever God you call your own... will have it's own instructions, The Quran has it's instructions also..i am not Perfect just forgiven...man that has destroyed and shed blood in the name of Jesus have already again been Judged....But Jesus Demanded that Peter Lay his Sword down when he took the ear of the soldier that captured Jesus....don't forget Jesus was put to death for his words nothing else! Now......i have met many people that call themselves Christians....and watched their actions on TV and in church with sadness But who are you or me to Judge the person.....I would think with all your post and defending a RELIGION you should say Those Saudi folks are good people but do the really Stand strong in the Muslim book of the Quran...if they are they should take their Book to Heart and most Muslims know they should .........................................The Qur'an commands its followers to launch jihads or holy wars of conquest to force conversions to Islam.

    Fight and slay the unbelievers wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war. (Surah IX:5)

    Fight those who do not believe in Allah or the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his apostle, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth (i.e. Islam), (even if they are people of the Book), until they pay the tax with willing submission and feel themselves subdued. (Surah IX:29)

    Seize them and slay them wherever you find them. (Surah IV:89,91)  

[Bobbo]

The Qur'an commands its followers to launch jihads or holy wars of conquest to force conversions to Islam.

    Fight and slay the unbelievers wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war. (Surah IX:5)

    Fight those who do not believe in Allah or the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his apostle, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth (i.e. Islam), (even if they are people of the Book), until they pay the tax with willing submission and feel themselves subdued. (Surah IX:29)

    Seize them and slay them wherever you find them. (Surah IV:89,91)  

As with any literature, snippets taken out of context can be used to portray the literature any way you want.  The verses you quote are prefixed by what to do when treaties were broken between the occupying Roman Empire and Muslims.  Allah commands his followers to have mercy on any of them that convert to Islam.

[Bobbo]

I believe most if not all of the leaders of those who attacked us were in Afghanistan shortly after the attack. If we had sterilized Afghanistan on 9/12 we could have been pretty sure that we killed most of the leaders of the terrorists. That would have been good enough for me. As far as fighting ideology, this is a primitive, failed society we are fighting. If there is one thing they understand, it's force. If we promised to kill 100,000 of or more of them for every American they killed, and then we did it they would stop fighting.

Your mentors, Saddam Hussein and Adolf Hitler have taught you well, young Jedi!  They too exterminated large areas in an attempt to exact revenge on people they thought opposed them.   Never mind about the innocents, this is war!

If they truly believe they will achieve a better afterlife by killing us, then they are devout enough to beleive that being buried with the entrails of pigs would keep them out of their afterlife. Why don't we do it? Why don't we feed them only pork when we capture them?

As with most religions, there is an “escape clause” that discounts any forced behavior or emergency conditions, so no, making them eat pork or burying them with pork by-products will not disallow them from entering their paradise.

[fstsix]

The Qur'an commands its followers to launch jihads or holy wars of conquest to force conversions to Islam.

    Fight and slay the unbelievers wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war. (Surah IX:5)

    Fight those who do not believe in Allah or the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his apostle, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth (i.e. Islam), (even if they are people of the Book), until they pay the tax with willing submission and feel themselves subdued. (Surah IX:29)

    Seize them and slay them wherever you find them. (Surah IV:89,91)  

As with any literature, snippets taken out of context can be used to portray the literature any way you want.  The verses you quote are prefixed by what to do when treaties were broken between the occupying Roman Empire and Muslims.  Allah commands his followers to have mercy on any of them that convert to Islam.

Would you like to dispute this with some PHD's or would you like to present us yours?

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I believe most if not all of the leaders of those who attacked us were in Afghanistan shortly after the attack. If we had sterilized Afghanistan on 9/12 we could have been pretty sure that we killed most of the leaders of the terrorists. That would have been good enough for me. As far as fighting ideology, this is a primitive, failed society we are fighting. If there is one thing they understand, it's force. If we promised to kill 100,000 of or more of them for every American they killed, and then we did it they would stop fighting.

Your mentors, Saddam Hussein and Adolf Hitler have taught you well, young Jedi!  They too exterminated large areas in an attempt to exact revenge on people they thought opposed them.   Never mind about the innocents, this is war!

If they truly believe they will achieve a better afterlife by killing us, then they are devout enough to beleive that being buried with the entrails of pigs would keep them out of their afterlife. Why don't we do it? Why don't we feed them only pork when we capture them?

As with most religions, there is an “escape clause” that discounts any forced behavior or emergency conditions, so no, making them eat pork or burying them with pork by-products will not disallow them from entering their paradise.

In the matter of using their own beliefs against them. Do a search for this and make up your own mind. Depending on where you look it appears this approach worked for General John Pershing in the Philippines in the early 1900’s.

[fstsix]

The Qur'an commands its followers to launch jihads or holy wars of conquest to force conversions to Islam.

    Fight and slay the unbelievers wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war. (Surah IX:5)

    Fight those who do not believe in Allah or the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his apostle, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth (i.e. Islam), (even if they are people of the Book), until they pay the tax with willing submission and feel themselves subdued. (Surah IX:29)

    Seize them and slay them wherever you find them. (Surah IV:89,91)  

As with any literature, snippets taken out of context can be used to portray the literature any way you want.  The verses you quote are prefixed by what to do when treaties were broken between the occupying Roman Empire and Muslims.  Allah commands his followers to have mercy on any of them that convert to Islam.

Would you like to dispute this with some PHD's or would you like to present us yours?

    "We are at war against infidels. Take this message with you, 'I ask all Islamic nations, all Muslims, all Islamic armies, and all heads of Islamic states to join the Holy War. There are many enemies to be killed or destroyed. Jihad must triumph...Muslims have no alternative... to an armed Holy War against profane governments... Holy War means the conquest of all non-Muslim territories... It will... be the duty of every able bodied adult male to volunteer for this war of conquest, the final aim of which is to put Koranic law in power from one end of the earth to the other.'" - Ayatollah Khomeini , "The U.S. is the devil on this planet." World Islamic Popular Command

    "Death to America, the Great Satan!" - Muslim mobs in Egypt, Iran, Iraq, etc.

    "Muslims must kill the enemies of Allah, in every way and everywhere in order to liberate themselves from the grandchildren of the pigs and apes who are educated at the table of the Zionists, the Communists, and the Imperialists."
    - Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman

    "The United States is a den of evil and fornication... I will show all Americans that they will not be happy if they do not follow Islam." - Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman

    "Any doubt about the need to struggle against the U.S. means being enslaved by the Great Satan, and losing the honor and the life the Islamic Revolution has brought to this country and the whole Islamic Ummah." - Ali Akbar Mohtashemi

    "It is a matter of time... In 10 years you will have quite a number of countries united under the banner of Islamic fundamentalism." - Hassan al-Turabi

    "There is fury, fury everywhere ... Islam is escalating and cannot be resisted. I pray that Allah may tear apart America just as the Soviet Union was torn apart ..." - Sheik al-Tamimi

    " wanted to topple one [tower] into the other and kill thousands to send a message to American that they were at war." - Ramzi Yousef, the mastermind of the blowing up of the World Trade Center

Lest you think that these statements are just a lot of wind and noise, come with me to the World Trade Center in New York City which was blown up by the disciples of Sheik Omar. Come with me to the crash sites of airplanes that were blown out of the air by Muslims. Visit the grave sites of American citizens killed by Muslim terrorists in Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait.

[Bobbo]

    "We are at war against infidels. Take this message with you, 'I ask all Islamic nations, all Muslims, all Islamic armies, and all heads of Islamic states to join the Holy War. There are many enemies to be killed or destroyed. Jihad must triumph...Muslims have no alternative... to an armed Holy War against profane governments... Holy War means the conquest of all non-Muslim territories... It will... be the duty of every able bodied adult male to volunteer for this war of conquest, the final aim of which is to put Koranic law in power from one end of the earth to the other.'" - Ayatollah Khomeini , "The U.S. is the devil on this planet." World Islamic Popular Command

Thank you for strengthening my argument that religion, specifically the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam), have become a detriment to humanity.  Now, your next assignment, if you choose to accept it, is to find an equal number of kooky statements from Christian leaders.  Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell should provide you with plenty of fodder to begin with.  Good Luck, Jim!

 Lest you think that these statements are just a lot of wind and noise, come with me to the World Trade Center in New York City which was blown up by the disciples of Sheik Omar. Come with me to the crash sites of airplanes that were blown out of the air by Muslims. Visit the grave sites of American citizens killed by Muslim terrorists in Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait.

On September 10th, 2002, I, along with 9 others made an official IronButt ride to NY City.  On September 11th, 2002 at 0846, we stood at Ground Zero in solidarity and solemnly honored the victims of an ideology that mixed radical religion and politics.  Our return trip took us through Shanksville, PA to honor the victims of Flight 93.

[fstsix]

Bo, come out into the the light here and introduce yourself....maybe a picture of your bike with you ...i have studied Denominational division in the church for over 30 years... and with a lot of prayer, and a friend the now late Dr Walter Martin,, AKA the bible answer man form the 70's and Chuck Smith Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa Ca, Chuck Swindoll,,, along with be involved  in the controversy of the Witness Lee and the local Church in Long Beach ca.,,Along with a attack from a member of the Illuminati trying to bring false accusations against Chuck Smith when i was going to Calvary back then....i got to tell you if you are a follower of Jesus you will always be persecuted. But i must agree with you regarding your statements on religion...it seems when ever Man has any type of organization Corruption will always be there.Jesus my favorite Jew always reminds me through the Word how imperfect Man is, I like to think i am still a Jew, just a new one, how could a man who has had been given so much form the parables of the Old Testament  not love the Jewish. 911?  9-11-02 i helped as a officer of the CMA to organize the first ride to Ground Zero Hell's kitchen along with thousands of Motorcycles myself....glad to here you are doing the same...your point on Religion is understood....the old famous question i hear is What religion is Right?....none Jesus was right he was always telling the religious leaders they were wrong! he did not hang out with them Most of all spoke in 'their' synagogue's His New Church had no Walls    http://www.remember9-11ride.com/id3.html